Unsack ratts

[krayfesh]

He said at the start of the year that the focus was going to be on our defensive play this season.

We're a work in progress. I don't get why people can't see that.

Al I'm saying is that you can't just sack coaches when we're in a form slump. I then gave examples of other coaches.

Ratten is working on all parts of our game plan as well as rejiggering our forward line.

 

[Malifice]

but as a unit were defensively crap.

'As a unit' we turned a 24 point half time deficit into a 24 point victory.

A ten goal turnaround.

Id rather have the opposition chasing us and negating what we are doing (like the second half) than the other way around.

 

[TheHeatleyStand]

'As a unit' we turned a 24 point half time deficit into a 24 point victory.

A ten goal turnaround.

Id rather have the opposition chasing us and negating what we are doing (like the second half) than the other way around.

yah the wooden spooners is your measuring stick of how were going about playing the season and the game... right.

Look youre right!!!

Ratts is a ripper coach!!!

so lucky we have him!!

Right???

 

[Malifice]

yah the wooden spooners is your measuring stick of how were going about playing the season and the game... right.

Neatly forgetting the wins against the Saints and Geelong, and the fact that our win/ loss is in the positive and we are in the 8 a game (and %) clear (when virtually all pundits had it the other way around).

Try and be objective.

We haven't played good footy for the past 6 weeks. This happens to all sides. Particularly the young ones.

I have been as pissed off as anyone, but to simply blame the coach is a a massive overreaction considering where we are both this year, and in overall development, and also neatly clears the players of any wrong doing.

If you want to be pissed off at anyone, get pissed at the players.

If they played with the amount of heart that Richmond have shown over the same period, we would have won most of those games.

The WCE game highlighted this for me. After half time the players actually started to work harder. They lifted, and it showed.

Unless you take the absurd position that Ratten was to blame for the poor first half of that game, and the players were responsible only for the good second half?

Ratts is a ripper coach!!!

I'm not sold one way or the other to be honest. I think he's doing as good as any young coach with similar experience, and is doing the best with the major list issues that we all concede we have (KPP deficiencies, unpredictable, young and small forward line, lack of leg speed and hardness through the middle, and the problems that you will get with a young side that frankly, still isn't used to winning).

But I'm certainly against 'sacking' him.

I don't see us as currently having the list or the maturity to genuinely challenge any of the top 4 teams, let alone win a flag.

And I dont think we will be in such a position (regardless of whether Superman himself was coaching us) in the next 2-3 years.

I expect us to finish around 9th-6th for the next few years, then (as Geelong, the Saints and the Pies drop off due to age catching up) pretty quickly being a regular top 4 side (along with the Hawks and possibly Freo). Melbourne and North (maybe Essendon, WCE and the Tiges) in a few years time should then take our position in the 9th to 6th spot.

More than happy for Ratts to go on till the end of next year, then reassess from there.

 

[pieman123]

I expect us to finish around 9th-6th for the next few years, then (as Geelong, the Saints and the Pies drop off due to age catching up) pretty quickly being a regular top 4 side (along with the Hawks and possibly Freo). Melbourne and North (maybe Essendon, WCE and the Tiges) in a few years time should then take our position in the 9th to 6th spot.

More than happy for Ratts to go on till the end of next year, then reassess from there.

sorry to say but Collingwood hasnt even reached its prime yet, we will be in our prime in about 2 years when our younger players hit 25/26 years old

 

[parrot]

sorry to say but Collingwood hasnt even reached its prime yet, we will be in our prime in about 2 years when our younger players hit 25/26 years old

You'll still be a middle of the road failure, celebrating premierships during the H&A and then imploding like always. The Pies list lacks a lot of class compared to other sides in the top-8. Sheeds had a point, that's why Malthouse went ballistic at the press conference again. Toovey, Mcaffer, Leroy Brown, Maxwell, Cloke etc etc, - not much class or talent there. The Pies always put in a workman like effort in the H&A, aided by AFL regulation soft draws, and then fail and implode in finals when talent becomes a bigger factor. I suspect you know this.

 

[scomac]

Got to give Ratts some respect a true Carlton boy,Kruze being down is a massive problem but clearly he has been trying to get Mids to fill backline gaps. I dont get Mcleans draft when Drummond was available .Carlton has a huge Midfield pool surely one can play a Andrew Mcleod type role. I think a few players need to pull there head in and play for the club and not individual glory.

 

[GoBlues!]

sorry to say but Collingwood hasnt even reached its prime yet, we will be in our prime in about 2 years when our younger players hit 25/26 years old

Based on the average age and No. games played by teams this round it looks like Collingwood has hit the 25/26 y.o. mark and are playing pretty good footy as well:

Geelong - 27yrs 197d, 148G
StKilda - 26 yrs 98d, 120G
Bulldogs - 26 yrs 7d, 118G
Swans - 25 yrs, 306d, 103G
Collingwood - 25yrs, 110G
Hawthorn - 25yrs, 101G
Adelaide - 24 yrs, 167d, 79G.
Pt. Adel. - 24 yrs, 62d, 78G
NMelb - 23yrs 310d, 68G
Brisbane - 23 yrs 259d, 78G
CARLTON - 23 yrs 226d, 73G
Melbourne - 23 yrs, 211d, 72G
Fremantle - 23 yrs, 193d, 72G
Essendon - 23yrs 171d, 67G
WCE - 23 yrs 51d, 64G
Richmond 23yrs 18d, 56G.

Also worth noting that Carlton and Fremantle have the youngest teams and least games experience of the teams in the eight, and doing better than a lot of other teams around the 23 yrs & 70+ games mark.

 

[Malifice]

sorry to say but Collingwood hasnt even reached its prime yet, we will be in our prime in about 2 years when our younger players hit 25/26 years old

Absolute bullshit.

In 2 years time:

Player (Age at 2012)

Leon Davis: 31
Leigh Brown: 30
Josh Fraser: 30
B Johnson: 31
D. Jolly: 31
T. Lockyer: 33
N. Maxwell: 30
P. Medhurst: 31
S Obree: 33
Presti: 34
Alan Didak: 29
D Swan: 28
L Ball: 28

Comment Fail.

Ironically you had better hope those 'kids' turn out OK, because over the next two years you are going no be able to draft no kids, and will be blooding an untried Coach (with some problems when those blokes retire circa 2013ish).

Malthouse loaded up by trading in two mature players (Ball and Jolly) last year to try and pinch a Flag before he buggers off, and not caring about the state of the list he will be leaving his 'successor' Buckley.

I suggest enjoying it while you can.

 

[The Exorcist]

sorry to say but Collingwood hasnt even reached its prime yet, we will be in our prime in about 2 years when our younger players hit 25/26 years old

Your average age for the team this weekend was 25 ... ?

 

[Malifice]

Absolute bullshit.

In 2 years time:

Player (Age at 2012)

Leon Davis: 31
Leigh Brown: 30
Josh Fraser: 30
B Johnson: 31
D. Jolly: 31
T. Lockyer: 33
N. Maxwell: 30
P. Medhurst: 31
S Obree: 33
Presti: 34
Alan Didak: 29
D Swan: 28
L Ball: 28

Oh and FWIW:

Carlton in two years time:

Scotland 32
Houlihan 30
Hadley 29
Wiggins 29
O'Hailpin 29
Waite 29
Carrazzo 28
Fisher 28
Judd 28
Simpson 28
Thornton 28

Important players bolded. Most of the rest will be lucky to still be playing from 2013. Two players 30+. As opposed to your 10.

Also consider in 2012: Murphy, Gibbs, Lucas, Kruezer, Yarran, Betts, Russell, Henderson, Jamison, Bower, Grigg, Gartlett, Joseph, Hampson, Warnock, Anderson, Armfeild, Robinson, Walker, White will all be between 25 - 21 years old.

Hard to be objective, but Id rather that lot to: Beams, Anthony, Barham, Blair, N. Brown, Buckley, Cloke, Cook, Dawes, Dick, Goldsack, Mccaffer, Mcarteny, Pendulbury, Reid, Sidebottom, Wellingham, Wood.

Id say we have you comfortably covered in terms of young mids, wingers, small forwards, rucks and defenders. The only area you guys have us nailed in (in terms of youth) is young KPP forwards.

But hey.

Believe whatever you want to.

 

[ctacp]

According to some posters we are the worst team in the competition. At least we were when there was mass hysteria on this board during the first half of the game.

-
What do you think Richmond or melbourne or essendon would do to us with a 5 goal half time lead ? they wouldnt be just 5 goals up either if we play like that.

They'd go on & whack us. Westcoast are unfit & stopped in the 2nd half. If people think that 2 & a half quarters to get in front of the worst team presently is acceptable (4 goals in the first half i think) & a not so large win is showing something your kidding yourselves.

The next month will sort us out. fix the field disposal as it's presently shocking or we will be 0-4.

ctacp
curlier than a catoggio pube

 

[mediumsizered]

-
What do you think Richmond or melbourne or essendon would do to us with a 5 goal half time lead ? they wouldnt be just 5 goals up either if we play like that.

They'd go on & whack us. Westcoast are unfit & stopped in the 2nd half. If people think that 2 & a half quarters to get in front of the worst team presently is acceptable (4 goals in the first half i think) & a not so large win is showing something your kidding yourselves.

The next month will sort us out. fix the field disposal as it's presently shocking or we will be 0-4.

ctacp
curlier than a catoggio pube

It is amazing how many times I have read in recent weeks how Richmond, Melbourne or Essendon would beat us on our current form, yet they sit on 5, 6 1/2 & 6 wins respectively, whilst we have 9 wins. Are you another one who subscribes to the theory that we have had 9 lucky wins?

 

[Malifice]

Are you another one who subscribes to the theory that we have had 9 lucky wins?

Our players got us those nine wins.

Ratten is only responsible for the losses remember.

 

[BlueTouchPaper]

Are you another one who subscribes to the theory that we have had 9 lucky wins?

We were lucky to win last night, I'll give ya that much!

And it was - more or less - all thanks to Ratten.

He made some fantastic moves against a premiership coach who had a 5 goal head start on us at half time.

After the main break, these crucial decisions really came into effect;

Garlett into the midfield; used his instincts and footy smarts to supreme effect - that punch out of the centre clearance was as good as a goal assist and set up Henderson for an easy conversion 35 out straight in front.

Our half back flankers into the forward line; Gibbs and Walker into the fray to add a different dimension to a rather lacklustre setup. Gibbs had two I50 marks in about 3 minutes and what should've been two easy conversions - it really put the fear of God into the WCE backmen, and his footy nous was complemented by Walker's willingness to hit the pack and fly over the contest. Neither troubled the scoreboard majorly but the structural change it created was immense.

Waite given free reign; it pretty much appeared as if Ratts told him to play as a loose man all over the ground to really give us a spark. He cuts through opposition teams with marauding running and sure hands at crucial moments - really is one of the most talented on our list.

Maintaining the core backline structure; Russell - although more or less being shown up by LeCras in the first half - was persisted with and this allowed the opponents of Lynch and Kennedy to really find their rhythm. Bower and Jamison were never beaten one-on-one and they were only ever exposed on the rebound. There was nothing worse he could've done than leave exposed a just as capable Kennedy and allow them to have two key components of their forward line on fire.

Keeping his cool with Ellard; the temptation would've been to take El out of the centre as his disposal was abysmal in the first half and turnovers in the corridor were our undoing, but he persisted with the match up on Priddis and ended up completely upstaging him as far as I am concerned.

 

[TheHeatleyStand]

Our players got us those nine wins.

Ratten is only responsible for the losses remember.

ratten is responsible for how we play....


shithouse style.... and of course he is not responsible for the talent of the players

 

[Sublime]

ratten is responsible for how we play....


shithouse style.... and of course he is not responsible for the talent of the players

Yet you refuse to give him credit for when he makes changes after half time and we spank them?





(waits for the 'but they're the bottom side' come back)

 

[TheHeatleyStand]

Yet you refuse to give him credit for when he makes changes after half time and we spank them?





(waits for the 'but they're the bottom side' come back)

Spank who?
West Coat?

lol

Look for starters theyre last.
Secondly... their second halves have been terrible this year.
Go check for yourself..................

 

[Big Red is back]

Yet you refuse to give him credit for when he makes changes after half time and we spank them?






(waits for the 'but they're the bottom side' come back)

Watching us feels like Rats says ' hey guys go chase the footy get a kick, have some fun and late in a quarter if u want hold the ball in the air and slow it down'

 

[Sublime]

Spank who?
West Coat?

lol

Look for starters theyre last.
Secondly... their second halves have been terrible this year.
Go check for yourself..................

Its the AFL. Any team can beat any team on a given day.

We beat Geelong & St Kilda
Essendon & Port beat St Kilda
Brisbane & Essendon both beat the Dogs

For example who were the only 2 teams we lost to in our glory year, 1995? Sydney and St Kilda. The Saints were the worst team in the league that year by a long shot, and Sydney were no good also, probably 12th or so?
You still have to turn up as a team to get the win against any team.

Yes we SHOULD have won, yes we SHOULDN'T have been getting spanked, but for you to give zero credit for the manner in which we were able to turn it around is just wrong.

 

[Sublime]

Watching us feels like Rats says ' hey guys go chase the footy get a kick, have some fun and late in a quarter if u want hold the ball in the air and slow it down'

Lucky you have your 250 games of VAFA experience under your belt, you've well and truly earned your stripes. I don't think you've reminded us of how many games you've played enough recently. You've only felt the need to remind us of this twice in the past week...

Look, I have no problem with people bagging out the coach for not making the correct decisions, its what we're here to discuss. But when he makes some good changes like he did on the weekend that resulted in a 10 goal turnaround in a half, then its clear what your intentions are around here.

 

[NAUGHT5]

Apologise if this has been bought up..

One thing that I was very pleased with was seeing Garlett move high up the ground early on in the 2nd half.

I'm not sure if he was in the centre bounces but he was definitely very high up the ground.

When we struggled to hit targets in the first half, Ratts played him higher, utilising his skills and swinging the game in our favour in the 3rd term.

Usually when we have a first half like that, we dont snap out of it.

 

[Sublime]

Apologise if this has been bough up..

One thing that I was very pleased with was seeing Garlett move high up the ground early on in the 2nd half.

I'm not sure if he was in the centre bounces but he was definitely very high up the ground.

When we struggled to hit targets in the first half, Ratts played him higher, utilising his skills and swinging the game in our favour in the 3rd term.

Usually when we have a first half like that, we dont snap out of it.

Betts has also done this in the past also. Can't see why Garlett can't also move in for short bursts because he works so well in close in the forwardline, it should also translate into the midfield. Even just injecting him for a few bounces, then straight back into the forward line, swapping with a Murph or something. Could even serve to help free players up by having short sharp rotations when required.

 

[Malifice]

Spank who?
West Coat?

Geelong, Saint Kilda.

Or were those wins the players?

Thats right, its only the losses that Ratten is responsible for.

FFS, were 7th on the ladder, have won more than we've lost and this is AFTER losing Fevola last year.

What were you expecting this year? A flag?

 

[blue healer]

Geelong, Saint Kilda.

Or were those wins the players?

Thats right, its only the losses that Ratten is responsible for.

FFS, were 7th on the ladder, have won more than we've lost and this is AFTER losing Fevola last year.

What were you expecting this year? A flag?

Agree in spades.