Unsack ratts

[pieman123]

Absolute bullshit.

In 2 years time:

Player (Age at 2012)

Leon Davis: 31
Leigh Brown: 30
Josh Fraser: 30
B Johnson: 31
D. Jolly: 31
T. Lockyer: 33
N. Maxwell: 30
P. Medhurst: 31
S Obree: 33
Presti: 34
Alan Didak: 29
D Swan: 28
L Ball: 28

Comment Fail.

Ironically you had better hope those 'kids' turn out OK, because over the next two years you are going no be able to draft no kids, and will be blooding an untried Coach (with some problems when those blokes retire circa 2013ish).

in 2 years time Swan, Didak and Ball will still have at least 2-3 years left and the rest you picked out are players who cant get a game at the moment such as Medhurst, Obree, Fraser, Lockyer the only important players are Jolly, Presti and Maxwell who all have younger players ready to replace them right now

 

[pieman123]

Also consider in 2012: Murphy, Gibbs, Lucas, Kruezer, Yarran, Betts, Russell, Henderson, Jamison, Bower, Grigg, Gartlett, Joseph, Hampson, Warnock, Anderson, Armfeild, Robinson, Walker, White will all be between 25 - 21 years old.

Hard to be objective, but Id rather that lot to: Beams, Anthony, Barham, Blair, N. Brown, Buckley, Cloke, Cook, Dawes, Dick, Goldsack, Mccaffer, Mcarteny, Pendulbury, Reid, Sidebottom, Wellingham, Wood.

Id say we have you comfortably covered in terms of young mids, wingers, small forwards, rucks and defenders. The only area you guys have us nailed in (in terms of youth) is young KPP forwards.

But hey.

Believe whatever you want to.

You forgot Thomas, Toovey, and Obrien, and Collingwood easily has Carlton covered in young mids with Pendlebury, Thomas, Wellingham, Sidebottom, Beams, Macaffer, Blair i dont know how you think Carltons young mids are going to be better when all the mids i just listed played last week in the top team and, in the defence Collingwood has Carlton easily covered again with Reid, Goldsack, Toovey, Obrien and N Brown(when fit) all playing most games in the side that is top of the ladder. As you can see there is no way that Carltons young players is better than Collingwoods and im sure most people on Bigfooty would agree

 

[Malifice]

in 2 years time Swan, Didak and Ball will still have at least 2-3 years left

In 2 years time those blokes will be 28, 29 and 28 repectively.

Expect a big drop in form the year or two after.

Its not a bad thing by way. Your window is open right now. Expect it ro remain so for another 3-4 years, then Leon Davis, Brown, Fraser, Johnson, Jolly, Lockyer, Maxwell, Medhurst, Obree, Presti, Didak, Swan and Ball will be either already gone or at least 30+ and in the twilight of their careers.

Thats 13 players gone from your current squad, including 8 of your first picked 22 (including key players such as Didak, Swan, Davis, Jolly, Maxwell, Presti, and Ball). Losing Ball, Jolly and Swan through the guts, Presti, Maxwell and Lockyer down back, and Didak, Medhurst and Davis up forward will hurt, no matter how you want to frame it.

Who do we lose in 4 years?

Fisher? Wiggins? OHailpin? Hadley?

Scotland and Houlihan are the only ones we lose that 'hurt' but they arent exactly 'vital' cogs in the side. Lucas looks a good trade for Houlihan, and McLean (if he can get fit) a suitable replacement for Scotland.

Judd, Simpson and Waite will be around the same age as Swan, Didak and Ball (30 odd). I call that a draw.

In four years youll be stuck with a midfeild of Pendles, Beams, Sidebottom, Thomas (and little midfield depth beyond that).

We'll have Murphy, Gibbs, Lucas, Yarran, Grigg, Kruezer, McLean and Robinson in their prime with Simpson and Judd just hitting 30. Our established backline of Jamison, Bower, Joseph and Russell will be in their mid 20's, and Henderson and our three smalls will all be @25 years old (same with all 4 of our rucks).

You guys are older and more experienced at this stage of your development. You're top of the ladder, your window is open, and your recent drafting (Jolly and Ball) suggests that your coach knows it.

We are a few years behind. Probably get there (top 4) just as you guys are tipping out (around 2013-4).

 

[Malifice]

Collingwood easily has Carlton covered in young mids with Pendlebury, Thomas, Wellingham, Sidebottom, Beams, Macaffer, Blair

Are you on drugs?

Macaffer? Blair (172cms)? Wellingham?

Start a poll.

Pendlebury, Thomas, Beams, Sidebottom Wellingham vs Murphy, Gibbs, Lucas, Yarran and McLean.

You might be surprised at the results.

in defence Collingwood has Carlton easily covered again with Reid, Goldsack, Toovey, Obrien and N Brown

Reid, Goldsack, Toovey, Obrien and N Brown v Jamison, Bower, Russell, White, Walker and Armfeild?

Id take the Carlton boys as a whole over your mob. We could use another KPP defender IMO.

We would lose Waite (who has hardly played down back for the past two years). You lose Maxwell, Presti and Lockyer.

As you can see there is no way that Carltons young players is better than Collingwoods and im sure most people on Bigfooty would agree

Again, start a Poll.

Our youth smashes yours.

Name your best 12 players 23 years of age or younger.

If it beats:

Murphy
Gibbs
Kreuezer
Yarran
Betts
Bower
Grigg
Lucas
Russell
Henderson
Hampson
Garlett

Ill eat my ****ing hat.

Note Walker, McLean and Jamison didnt make the cut (all three 24 years old)

 

[pieman123]

Our youth smashes yours.

Name your best 12 players 23 years of age or younger.

If it beats:

Murphy
Gibbs
Kreuezer
Yarran
Betts
Bower
Grigg
Lucas
Russell
Henderson
Hampson
Garlett

Ill eat my ****ing hat.

Note Walker, McLean and Jamison didnt make the cut (all three 24 years old)

Collingwoods would probably be(in no order):

Pendlebury
Thomas
Obrien
Cloke
Dick
Toovey
Dawes
Wellingham
Sidebottom
Beams
Reid
N Brown

thats without including Anthony, Goldsack, Macaffer, who were close and as you can see it just proves my point Collingwoods youngsters are better

 

[Stamos]

Collingwoods would probably be(in no order):

Pendlebury
Thomas
Obrien
Cloke
Dick
Toovey
Dawes
Wellingham
Sidebottom
Beams
Reid
N Brown

thats without including Anthony, Goldsack, Macaffer, who were close and as you can see it just proves my point Collingwoods youngsters are better

Looks like your Dunce cap has cut off all blood flow to your brain.

 

[Malifice]

it just proves my point Collingwoods youngsters are better

What the ****??

Pendlebury
Thomas
Obrien
Cloke
Dick
Toovey
Dawes
Wellingham
Sidebottom
Beams
Reid
N Brown

Versus

Murphy
Gibbs
Kreuezer
Yarran
Betts
Bower
Grigg
Lucas
Russell
Henderson
Hampson
Garlett

?????

Do youself a favour, start a poll on the 'lists' thread and see how the votes from third parties go.

 

[Big Red is back]

Look lots of different opinions either the coach is struggling or the list isn't as good as we hoped.

Eitherway we have a problem, change the coach or commence a mini rebuild again.

All I know is our brand of football is not going to go close to winning a flag anytime soon.

Despite crying about losing Fevloa I was expecting us to improve alot this year.

I was expecting all of Gibbs, Murphy, K , SImmo, Yarra, Garlett, Betts, Lucas, Mclean, Robbie, Walker, Jameo, Scotland (did a preseason) and Waite to see us improve alot.

 

[mediumsizered]

I was expecting all of Gibbs, Murphy, K , SImmo, Yarra, Garlett, Betts, Lucas, Mclean, Robbie, Walker, Jameo, Scotland (did a preseason) and Waite to see us improve alot.

Gibbs - has not backed up his 2009 form, but at 21 it is not unusual to see a player have a down year.
Murphy - missed a significant chunk of the pre-season & as we saw with Judd in 2008, this does take a substantial edge off a player's output.
Kreuzer - has struggled a bit this year, but I can't see that being Ratts' fault, more a reflection of his large workload at a young age.
Simpson - would probably be leading our B & F so has improved this season.
Yaz - has taken significant steps this season & is a totally different player to the uncertain kid we saw in his handful of games last season.
Garlett - has made significant progress this season, certainly more progress than I had expected.
Betts - has kicked 37 goals this season & is on track to better last season (38 goals), while taking over the role as the #1 go to player in our forward line.
Lucas - has looked very good at times this season, but was never going to have a significant impact on our overall performance.
McLean - unfortunately has been hampered by injuries, but when fit did show his value, particularly in our win against Geelong.
Warnock - hard to assess where he is at, although his 2nd half on Saturday gave cause for some optimism.
Walker - was in the best form of his career before injuring his shoulder & has struggled with confidence since his return.
Jamo - is not getting a lot of goals kicked on him, but is certainly a Presti style defender rather than a Scarlett style defender (he does at least play on the opposition's best forward most weeks).
Scotland - has been good this season, in fact close to his best season at the club & would be the closest challenger to Simmo in our B & F.
Waite - was always going to struggle returning from an ACL injury, as the first year back is always about gaining confidence & match fitness (of course his suspensions haven't helped). It would have been unreasonable to expect Waite to have a major impact this season.

The development among our younger players has been about what you would expect, whilst some of the experienced players have been nobbled by injury. The reality is it was always going to be a big ask to take another step forward after losing such an important player as Fev, particularly having to invent a whole new forward structure with a young group of forwards & most 'experts' (opposition AFL captains & the footy media/community) were predicting a bottom 8 finish for us this season. To have our season's destiny in our own hands, rather than relying on other results, puts us above the majority expectations (a poll on our board earlier this year saw virtually a 50/50 split among our supporters as to whether or not we would make the 8 this season).

 

[pieman123]

What the ****??

Pendlebury
Thomas
Obrien
Cloke
Dick
Toovey
Dawes
Wellingham
Sidebottom
Beams
Reid
N Brown

Versus

Murphy
Gibbs
Kreuezer
Yarran
Betts
Bower
Grigg
Lucas
Russell
Henderson
Hampson
Garlett

?????

Do youself a favour, start a poll on the 'lists' thread and see how the votes from third parties go.

well since ive already made a poll on the midfields and as i suggested most people agree that Collingwood has better young midfielders than Carlton im pretty sure this poll will be the same result

 

[Malifice]

well since ive already made a poll on the midfields and as i suggested most people agree that Collingwood has better young midfielders than Carlton im pretty sure this poll will be the same result

Absurd.

Keep deluding yourself.

 

[Go_Blues!]

We were lucky to win last night, I'll give ya that much!

And it was - more or less - all thanks to Ratten.

He made some fantastic moves against a premiership coach who had a 5 goal head start on us at half time.

After the main break, these crucial decisions really came into effect;

Garlett into the midfield; used his instincts and footy smarts to supreme effect - that punch out of the centre clearance was as good as a goal assist and set up Henderson for an easy conversion 35 out straight in front.

Our half back flankers into the forward line; Gibbs and Walker into the fray to add a different dimension to a rather lacklustre setup. Gibbs had two I50 marks in about 3 minutes and what should've been two easy conversions - it really put the fear of God into the WCE backmen, and his footy nous was complemented by Walker's willingness to hit the pack and fly over the contest. Neither troubled the scoreboard majorly but the structural change it created was immense.

Waite given free reign; it pretty much appeared as if Ratts told him to play as a loose man all over the ground to really give us a spark. He cuts through opposition teams with marauding running and sure hands at crucial moments - really is one of the most talented on our list.

Maintaining the core backline structure; Russell - although more or less being shown up by LeCras in the first half - was persisted with and this allowed the opponents of Lynch and Kennedy to really find their rhythm. Bower and Jamison were never beaten one-on-one and they were only ever exposed on the rebound. There was nothing worse he could've done than leave exposed a just as capable Kennedy and allow them to have two key components of their forward line on fire.

Keeping his cool with Ellard; the temptation would've been to take El out of the centre as his disposal was abysmal in the first half and turnovers in the corridor were our undoing, but he persisted with the match up on Priddis and ended up completely upstaging him as far as I am concerned.

Nice post....Pretty well summed up....

Funny how these discussions become religious arguments without any objectivity. I don't know if Ratten should be coach or not. My personal view is that he is the coach and there is very little I can do about it either way; however there may be some entertainment value in debating the point.

We seem to be tracking on a monotonically increasing trajectory which sounds like the right path to be on. I think those against Ratten being coach are suggesting that although improving at about the right rate, they can't see us winning a flag under our existing coach whilst they could under an alternative coach. So we are not talking about this year or last but rather an aggregation of all his years at the club. The thing is, on exposed evidence, it is hard to imagine anyone having achieved results substantially better than we have under Ratten. So perhaps it comes down to style of play rather than results. I guess it would be obvious and simplistic to say that results (premierships) are all that matter, and in general, they follow games won and we are on the right trajectory there. Another theory on the split in opinion on Ratten is that people are using a different period to make judgements. For example, if you took the last 6 weeks, the conclusion would have to be that the club has been far from good enough. Yet if you took Rattens total time at the club, you would again say that we are on the right path.

 

[laminex]

well since ive already made a poll on the midfields and as i suggested most people agree that Collingwood has better young midfielders than Carlton im pretty sure this poll will be the same result

champ kid your self all you want, but 99% of the young player s the pies do not get any attention the olders players take all of it. Carltons list is all young so guess what mate they take all the heat.

 

[Big Red is back]

For godsake Ratten defenders you must watch our last 6 weeks and realise our structures and gameplan are absent and the worst in the AFL.

Yes we will win games but that is nothing to do with Ratten when we win it is inspite of him and his gameplan.

Honestly the commentators on each radio station and tv where just in shock with the way we set up.

Sides like Melbourne and Richmond will pass us in the coming years unless something changes.

 

[Sublime]

For godsake Ratten defenders you must watch our last 6 weeks and realise our structures and gameplan are absent and the worst in the AFL.

Yes we will win games but that is nothing to do with Ratten when we win it is inspite of him and his gameplan.

Honestly the commentators on each radio station and tv where just in shock with the way we set up.

Sides like Melbourne and Richmond will pass us in the coming years unless something changes.

I think its time to unleash your beast that is 250 games of VAFA experience on the Blues BRIB.

Get in there and lead us to the promise land!