Updating the "Team of the Century"

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Byron Street said:
Testekill and DelRe--actually Charlie Sutton did play in the 1954 premiership side, and he played very well too. There is an inspirational photograph of the injured leader, Charlie Sutton, thigh seriously bandaged (because he had been badly injured), bursting on to MCG, leading his boys out. Right close by was Sutton's Lieutenant, Wally Donald. I've heard it said that that photograph is one of the finest in VFL/AFL history. Sutton was short (about 5'6") but as tough as nails. He was much feared, and during the 1954 Grand Final he did a demolition job on Noel McMahon, a Melbourne champion at that time. So, yes, Charlie did play in the '54 Grand Final.
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Sorry, I knew he played in the GF (so wasn't really a 'Wood' in that sense) I'd just always assumed he captained all year. You just don't hear as much about Donald unfortunately which is why I enjoyed your post/thread.

Glad you had Bont in that side too, I haven't watched them nearly as long as you but there's something about him that he'd be in my best of.

So did you actually get to go to any of the Dogs grand finals?
 

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Alas, DelRe, in 1954 I attended every game except the Grand Final. I had a longstanding arrangement with a friend that we'd always attend each other's birthday parties and his birthday party was on that day. I live (and still work) in Illinois, so wasn't able to get to the 2016 GF either.

When I was a young my best mate was Charlie Evans (back pocket for the Dogs in the 1961 GF). I also played against Ian Bryant, Merv Hobbs, John Jillard, Wally Trusler, Barry Ion, etc.

Perhaps I am biased in favour of Wally Donald because his mother and father lived over the road from me (in Shelley St, Footscray), and I often had a cup of tea with them, in their home, after a game. Wally and Herbie (Henderson) were both quiet, rather shy guys -- but both of them could really play football. Wally had a characteristic way of taking a high mark, and then moving his hands down from above his head so that the football would touch his back. Henderson was a real dasher. He would run down the field, bouncing the ball, rather like JJ in 2017. Coleman played on Henderson numerous times, but never beat him (the most he got in a game was 4 goals, and he usually got only 1 or 2). I remember Henderson being best-on-ground for Victoria in an Interstate game.

Cheers, Ken
 
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Byron Street said:
Alas, DelRe, in 1954 I attended every game except the Grand Final. I had a longstanding arrangement with a friend that we'd always attend each other's birthday parties and his birthday party was on that day. I live (and still work) in Illinois, so wasn't able to get to the 2016 GF either.

When I was a young my best mate was Charlie Evans (back pocket for the Dogs in the 1954 GF). I also played against Ian Bryant, Merv Hobbs, John Jillard, Wally Trusler, Barry Ion, etc.

Perhaps I am biased in favour of Wally Donald because his mother and father lived over the road from me (in Shelley St, Footscray), and I often had a cup of tea with them, in their home, after a game. Wally and Herbie (Henderson) were both quiet, rather shy guys -- but both of them could really play football. Wally had a characteristic way of taking a high mark, and then moving his hands down from above his head so that the football would touch his back. Henderson was a real dasher. He would run down the field, bouncing the ball, rather like JJ in 2017. Coleman played on Henderson numerous times, but never beat him (the most he got in a game was 4 goals, and he usually got only 1 or 2). I remember Henderson being best-on-ground for Victoria in an Interstate game.

Cheers, Ken
Click to expand...
Wonderful insight mate, thank you. Stuff like this is the reason i come to Bigfooty, wish there was a bit more of it for those of us who were not able to be a part of it.
 
Byron Street said:
Alas, DelRe, in 1954 I attended every game except the Grand Final. I had a longstanding arrangement with a friend that we'd always attend each other's birthday parties and his birthday party was on that day. I live (and still work) in Illinois, so wasn't able to get to the 2016 GF either.

When I was a young my best mate was Charlie Evans (back pocket for the Dogs in the 1961 GF). I also played against Ian Bryant, Merv Hobbs, John Jillard, Wally Trusler, Barry Ion, etc.

Perhaps I am biased in favour of Wally Donald because his mother and father lived over the road from me (in Shelley St, Footscray), and I often had a cup of tea with them, in their home, after a game. Wally and Herbie (Henderson) were both quiet, rather shy guys -- but both of them could really play football. Wally had a characteristic way of taking a high mark, and then moving his hands down from above his head so that the football would touch his back. Henderson was a real dasher. He would run down the field, bouncing the ball, rather like JJ in 2017. Coleman played on Henderson numerous times, but never beat him (the most he got in a game was 4 goals, and he usually got only 1 or 2). I remember Henderson being best-on-ground for Victoria in an Interstate game.

Cheers, Ken
Click to expand...
Fantastic. You really should document this; the first hand supporter experiences of that period are an important part of the clubs history. So did you stay in touch with your friend? That must have made for some laughs over the years - I can imagine your friend saying come over it's not like they won't win another one!

What did you know of Hopkins? Appreciate he would've been retired by the time you started following but was he still a revered figure around the club in the 50s? Just wonder as in some ways it would be the same gap in time in looking back on someone like Chris Grant now. It would be strange to think he would fade in memory in the same way but I guess that's the advantage of having footage to look back on in more modern times.
 
Monkey King said:
In my time watching Carlton.

B Geoff Southby, Stephen Silvagni, Kenny Hunter
HB Andrew McKay, David McKay, Bruce Doull
C Craig Bradley, Greg Williams, Anthony Koutoufidies
HF Wayne Johnston, Stephen Kernahan, Alex Jesaulenko
F Eddie Betts, Brendan Fevola, Peter Bosustow
R Mike Fitzpatrick, Brett Ratten, Chris Judd
Int Rod Ashman, Wayne Harmes, Trevor Keogh, Kade Simpson

What a backline. What a midfield. What a forward line. Bloody good team that.
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Really like the team but might still just have Kenny Sheldon in there as forward pocket/rover type than Eddie.
Guess only saw last few years of David McKay. I suspect him as CHB is right but Val Perovic certainly in the running. If Ratten, Kouta, Williams and Judd are in they have just pipped one or two others like Jimmy Buckley and Camporeale possibly. Even Fev as entertaining as he was, also not sure if he makes it when push comes to shove but worthy consideration. I might even go for a less spectacular but maybe more overall value in McConville over him as he could play back or forward. Was so versatile. Our teams seem more successful when not a forward line structured on one or two gun talls to kick goals. Jezza, full forward, Buzz half forward and Sheldon in pocket I think suits more with then just Sticks the only key tall and the rest mercurial smalls and mid sized guys in front half.

The half forward line. Oh my god. Awesome.

Glascott and Peter Dean some of the unlucky great club servants but cannot have everyone.
 
I never saw Allan Hopkins play, but my father did, and used to talk about him, and Norm Ware, and "Lolly Legs" Arthur Oliver, in revered terms. When I was young, Hopkins had never been awarded a Brownlow, because he had got the same total number of votes as the "winner" but had lost on a "countback." Later, the VFL changed the rules and those who had lost on a countback were now deemed to have also won the Brownlow.

I'll say some extra words, now, about Jack Collins. I attended a match at Princess Park where Collins kicked 9 goals in the first half, and then didn't get a goal in the game after that. They actually moved him into the ruck later in the game (which the Dogs won narrowly). We used to call Collins "Dobber Jack," because he was always "dobbing" goals (the expressions sounds strange today!) Of course, most of us know that Collins kicked 7 goals in the 1954 GF. He wore Number 2 and I had that number on the back of my Bulldogs jumper (I told Mr and Mrs Donald that I intended to put 22 on my jumper -- 22 was Wally's number -- but the first 2 was two big so I couldn't fit another 2. What a little liar!)

Jack Collins had a habit of letting the other 17 players run out together before a match (there were no "warm-ups" on the field those days), and then a minute or two later he'd run out, by himself, to the cheers of his adoring fans. One game, Dobber Jack kicked 9 goals on Fred Goldsmith (South Melbourne) the full back who happened to win the Brownlow that year! Collins and Goldsmith were known to be close friends. Collins was amazingly elusive for a big man -- if he got the ball he could always somehow twist and turn himself into a good position before he kicked for goal. Towards the end of his career, advancing age caught up with him, and he would play on the half-forward flank, or in the forward pocket. Later on, of course, Collins gave much excellent service as Secretary of the Club. His brother, Don, ran a popular sporting goods shop near the corner of Barkly and Nicholson streets, Footscray.

Cheers, Ken
 
Byron Street said:
I never saw Allan Hopkins play, but my father did, and used to talk about him, and Norm Ware, and "Lolly Legs" Arthur Oliver, in revered terms. When I was young, Hopkins had never been awarded a Brownlow, because he had got the same total number of votes as the "winner" but had lost on a "countback." Later, the VFL changed the rules and those who had lost on a countback were now deemed to have also won the Brownlow.

I'll say some extra words, now, about Jack Collins. I attended a match at Princess Park where Collins kicked 9 goals in the first half, and then didn't get a goal in the game after that. They actually moved him into the ruck later in the game (which the Dogs won narrowly). We used to call Collins "Dobber Jack," because he was always "dobbing" goals (the expressions sounds strange today!) Of course, most of us know that Collins kicked 7 goals in the 1954 GF. He wore Number 2 and I had that number on the back of my Bulldogs jumper (I told Mr and Mrs Donald that I intended to put 22 on my jumper -- 22 was Wally's number -- but the first 2 was two big so I couldn't fit another 2. What a little liar!)

Jack Collins had a habit of letting the other 17 players run out together before a match (there were no "warm-ups" on the field those days), and then a minute or two later he'd run out, by himself, to the cheers of his adoring fans. One game, Dobber Jack kicked 9 goals on Fred Goldsmith (South Melbourne) the full back who happened to win the Brownlow that year! Collins and Goldsmith were known to be close friends. Collins was amazingly elusive for a big man -- if he got the ball he could always somehow twist and turn himself into a good position before he kicked for goal. Towards the end of his career, advancing age caught up with him, and he would play on the half-forward flank, or in the forward pocket. Later on, of course, Collins gave much excellent service as Secretary of the Club. His brother, Don, ran a popular sporting goods shop near the corner of Barkly and Nicholson streets, Footscray.

Cheers, Ken
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Really appreciating your posts. As someone who has seen many of our greats, I thought I would ask your opinion on one of my favourites.

Do you think C Grant is a CHB or a CHF?
He could have won a Brownlow as a Defender but was also good forward.
 
In my opinion Chris Grant was better at CHB than at CHF, although outstanding at both. I remember one day, when we were playing North at the Whitten Oval in the mid-1990s, North were well ahead at half time, but Grant had a purple patch at CHF in the third quarter, taking pack high mark after pack high mark. North's coach, Dennis Pagan, switched Wayne Carey on to him (in the first half Carey had dominated the game from CHF), and for a while we saw a magnificent contest between two greats. North won, Carey was given BOG, and Grant 2nd best on ground.

When picking an updated Bulldogs team of the century I believed that both Whitten and Grant were slightly better at CHB than at CHF. Whitten insisted, for the AFL's team of the century, that he be considered for the CHF position first, and he was selected there (ahead of people like Royce Hart). For my updated Bulldogs team, with Ted no longer around to go mad at me, I took the liberty of putting Ted at CHB and Chris Grant at CHF.
 
Byron Street said:
In my opinion Chris Grant was better at CHB than at CHF, although outstanding at both. I remember one day, when we were playing North at the Whitten Oval in the mid-1990s, North were well ahead at half time, but Grant had a purple patch at CHF in the third quarter, taking pack high mark after pack high mark. North's coach, Dennis Pagan, switched Wayne Carey on to him (in the first half Carey had dominated the game from CHF), and for a while we saw a magnificent contest between two greats. North won, Carey was given BOG, and Grant 2nd best on ground.

When picking an updated Bulldogs team of the century I believed that both Whitten and Grant were slightly better at CHB than at CHF. Whitten insisted, for the AFL's team of the century, that he be considered for the CHF position first, and he was selected there (ahead of people like Royce Hart). For my updated Bulldogs team, with Ted no longer around to go mad at me, I took the liberty of putting Ted at CHB and Chris Grant at CHF.
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That was a great game against North, Carey & Grant duels were awesome. I remember being so disappointed we lost but really proud of how Grant had turned that game on its head.

My only change to your team as a personal preference, would be to listen to EJ by having him at his preferred CHF. I think Grants best position is CHB but they are the perfect swing men.

As with any team, it's all personal preference.
 
Byron Street said:
Alas, DelRe, in 1954 I attended every game except the Grand Final. I had a longstanding arrangement with a friend that we'd always attend each other's birthday parties and his birthday party was on that day. I live (and still work) in Illinois, so wasn't able to get to the 2016 GF either.

When I was a young my best mate was Charlie Evans (back pocket for the Dogs in the 1961 GF). I also played against Ian Bryant, Merv Hobbs, John Jillard, Wally Trusler, Barry Ion, etc.

Perhaps I am biased in favour of Wally Donald because his mother and father lived over the road from me (in Shelley St, Footscray), and I often had a cup of tea with them, in their home, after a game. Wally and Herbie (Henderson) were both quiet, rather shy guys -- but both of them could really play football. Wally had a characteristic way of taking a high mark, and then moving his hands down from above his head so that the football would touch his back. Henderson was a real dasher. He would run down the field, bouncing the ball, rather like JJ in 2017. Coleman played on Henderson numerous times, but never beat him (the most he got in a game was 4 goals, and he usually got only 1 or 2). I remember Henderson being best-on-ground for Victoria in an Interstate game.

Cheers, Ken
Click to expand...
Wally Trusler as an older legend at Kingsville taught me how to kick the footy as an eager 11 year old in 1983.
 
gandaal said:
B Michael Sexton, Steven Silvagni, Kade Simpson
HB Andrew McKay, Peter Dean, Sam Docherty
C Craig Bradley, Brett Ratten, Chris Judd
HF Wayne Johnston, Stephen Kernahan, Marc Murphy
F Eddie Betts, Brendan Fevola, Kenny Hunter
R Justin Madden, Greg Williams, Anthony Koutoufidies
Int Lance Whitnall, Fraser Brown, Bryce Gibbs, Patrick Cripps

Coach: Parkin

This is my Carlton best team of the last 30 years that I've been following football. It's dominated by the 1995 team with 11 from that great side.
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Bryce Gibbs in Carlton's best team of the last 30 years? Yeah I take it you don't watch much football!
 

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Byron Street said:
Henderson was a real dasher. He would run down the field, bouncing the ball, rather like JJ in 2017. Coleman played on Henderson numerous times, but never beat him (the most he got in a game was 4 goals, and he usually got only 1 or 2). I remember Henderson being best-on-ground for Victoria in an Interstate game.....Cheers, Ken
Click to expand...

5 times actually, for a return of 4, 3,2,1 & 2 goals.....From 1951-1954, with Coleman missing 2 clashes due to suspension.....So a 2.4 goal average, which is excellent; considering Coleman averaged 5.5 over his career.
 
gandaal said:
B Michael Sexton, Steven Silvagni, Kade Simpson
HB Andrew McKay, Peter Dean, Sam Docherty
C Craig Bradley, Brett Ratten, Chris Judd
HF Wayne Johnston, Stephen Kernahan, Marc Murphy
F Eddie Betts, Brendan Fevola, Kenny Hunter
R Justin Madden, Greg Williams, Anthony Koutoufidies
Int Lance Whitnall, Fraser Brown, Bryce Gibbs, Patrick Cripps

Coach: Parkin

This is my Carlton best team of the last 30 years that I've been following football. It's dominated by the 1995 team with 11 from that great side.
Click to expand...
Going back another 10 years would have got rid of half these players....at least.
 
Byron Street said:
I never saw Allan Hopkins play, but my father did, and used to talk about him, and Norm Ware, and "Lolly Legs" Arthur Oliver, in revered terms. When I was young, Hopkins had never been awarded a Brownlow, because he had got the same total number of votes as the "winner" but had lost on a "countback." Later, the VFL changed the rules and those who had lost on a countback were now deemed to have also won the Brownlow.

I'll say some extra words, now, about Jack Collins. I attended a match at Princess Park where Collins kicked 9 goals in the first half, and then didn't get a goal in the game after that. They actually moved him into the ruck later in the game (which the Dogs won narrowly). We used to call Collins "Dobber Jack," because he was always "dobbing" goals (the expressions sounds strange today!) Of course, most of us know that Collins kicked 7 goals in the 1954 GF. He wore Number 2 and I had that number on the back of my Bulldogs jumper (I told Mr and Mrs Donald that I intended to put 22 on my jumper -- 22 was Wally's number -- but the first 2 was two big so I couldn't fit another 2. What a little liar!)

Jack Collins had a habit of letting the other 17 players run out together before a match (there were no "warm-ups" on the field those days), and then a minute or two later he'd run out, by himself, to the cheers of his adoring fans. One game, Dobber Jack kicked 9 goals on Fred Goldsmith (South Melbourne) the full back who happened to win the Brownlow that year! Collins and Goldsmith were known to be close friends. Collins was amazingly elusive for a big man -- if he got the ball he could always somehow twist and turn himself into a good position before he kicked for goal. Towards the end of his career, advancing age caught up with him, and he would play on the half-forward flank, or in the forward pocket. Later on, of course, Collins gave much excellent service as Secretary of the Club. His brother, Don, ran a popular sporting goods shop near the corner of Barkly and Nicholson streets, Footscray.

Cheers, Ken
Click to expand...
Thanks for that golden history lesson Ken.
Gives everyone a little insight into a bygone era.
Keep telling the stories so they don't get lost.
 
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