USA US Dems in 2024 and beyond

[HirdsTheWord]

Mamdani ran, as an anti-Israel non-Christian young person.

And why did he win?

He had solutions for cost of living crisis.

Why did the Dems not support him? They don't support lowering the cost of living.

Trump had "solutions" for the CoL crisis too. They haven't worked, but he tried something and it won him a second election even though everyone knew how bad he was, they still thought it was better than the Democrats "try-nothing, nothing is wrong" approach. The Democrats have given up on good policy. They're just happy to get elected every time the bad GOP policies fail.

Not sure what this at all has to do with what i posted but anyways, Mamdani got voted in sure. Why didn't the dems support him? You'd have to ask them i suppose?

But I HIGHLY doubt he will be successful in delivering what he actually promised because a lot of his policies are simply unrealistic and not economically feasible. Wont be the first nor the last person to promise something during an election campaign and not deliver, like most politicians.

The idea that Mandami's policies will lower cost of living is economically flawed. Some of these policies such as doubling the minimum wage are simply inflationary in nature, and will likely raise the cost of products ergo raising the cost of living.

Surely the last 4-5 years has given everyone a first class course on what injecting money into an economy does to CPI. You would hope so at least.

Interesting to see how he goes though - he does have some good ideas though.

 

[Saint]

Not sure what this at all has to do with what i posted but anyways, Mamdani got voted in sure. Why didn't the dems support him? You'd have to ask them i suppose?

But I HIGHLY doubt he will be successful in delivering what he actually promised because a lot of his policies are simply unrealistic and not economically feasible. Wont be the first nor the last person to promise something during an election campaign and not deliver, like most politicians.

The idea that Mandami's policies will lower cost of living is economically flawed. Some of these policies such as doubling the minimum wage are simply inflationary in nature, and will likely raise the cost of products ergo raising the cost of living.

Surely the last 4-5 years has given everyone a first class course on what injecting money into an economy does to CPI. You would hope so at least.

Interesting to see how he goes though - he does have some good ideas though.

Co-Ops which can wipe the 10% profit margin off the price of groceries could work. There are social goods which the Govt can do better/cheaper than for-profit equivalents. Especially in a place like NYC where the Government would be better administered than somewhere like Alabama or Queensland.

A lot of the promises would require state Assembly support and the Democratic Party won't support that.

It's not that they won't work, it's that few of them will be fully implemented.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

Co-Ops which can wipe the 10% profit margin off the price of groceries could work. There are social goods which the Govt can do better/cheaper than for-profit equivalents. Especially in a place like NYC where the Government would be better administered than somewhere like Alabama or Queensland.

A lot of the promises would require state Assembly support and the Democratic Party won't support that.

It's not that they won't work, it's that few of them will be fully implemented.

Yes, because they wont work.

How will a coop grocery store work? Explain to me the economics behind it?

Most major US grocery chains run on margins below 2%. The way they make their money is by critical mass. Buy in mass bulk and sell in mass bulk. Running 5 stores wont be able to compete with prices against mass buying supermarkets.

Its not like New York has has access to local farms that can sell their produce. Also don't forget New York has a cold winter, so where is the produce even coming from?

Mandami wants to spend $60m of tax payers money on 5 stores. What is the return on the $60m? Is it financially sustainable? Will it run at a loss?

Again, its all good to have these types of policies, but the economics simply does not stack up.

 

[10571z]

Yes, because they wont work.

How will a coop grocery store work? Explain to me the economics behind it?

Most major US grocery chains run on margins below 2%. The way they make their money is by critical mass. Buy in mass bulk and sell in mass bulk. Running 5 stores wont be able to compete with prices against mass buying supermarkets.

Its not like New York has has access to local farms that can sell their produce. Also don't forget New York has a cold winter, there where is the produce even coming from?

Mandami wants to spend $60m of tax payers money on 5 stores. What is the return on the $60m? Is it financially sustainable? Will it run at a loss?

Again, it’s all good to have these types of policies, but the economics simply does not stack up.

Yep, try opening a chain of 5 grocery stores and get the pricing Woolies and Cole’s do. It just doesn’t make sense.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

Yep, try opening a chain of 5 grocery stores and get the pricing Woolies and Cole’s do. It just doesn’t make sense.

That's exactly why Masters failed in Australia trying to compete against Bunnings.

They could not get the critical mass to compete price wise, and they simply failed and went under.

Everyone has grand plans on how things should work, but they can rarely tell you how they will actually work.

 

[Gough]

Yep, try opening a chain of 5 grocery stores and get the pricing Woolies and Cole’s do. It just doesn’t make sense.

It's not some bloke trying to open a five and dime on a corner, it's the city of New York and I dare say that holds a bit of clout.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

It's not some bloke trying to open a five and dime on a corner, it's the city of New York and I dare say that holds a bit of clout.

So how does a coop store compete against a mass buying supermarket than who's running on a ~2% margin?

How does the procurement of produce etc work that will lower the price against a mass buying supermarket?

 

[Saint]

Yes, because they wont work.

How will a coop grocery store work? Explain to me the economics behind it?

Most major US grocery chains run on margins below 2%. The way they make their money is by critical mass. Buy in mass bulk and sell in mass bulk. Running 5 stores wont be able to compete with prices against mass buying supermarkets.

Its not like New York has has access to local farms that can sell their produce. Also don't forget New York has a cold winter, there where is the produce even coming from?

Mandami wants to spend $60m of tax payers money on 5 stores. What is the return on the $60m? Is it financially sustainable? Will it run at a loss?

Again, its all good to have these types of policies, but the economics simply does not stack up.

New York doesn't have lots of large supermarkets.

It's the same as any other grocery, except you don't need the margin and finance costs. It might be 2% margins (higher than that in USA) but those margins include the finance, real estate and profit.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

New York doesn't have lots of large supermarkets.

It's the same as any other grocery, except you don't need the margin and finance costs. It might be 2% margins (higher than that in USA) but those margins include the finance, real estate and profit.

Than the answer is to allow access for more competition into the city to lower price, such as Walmart, Costco etc etc. Competition drives prices down.

Obviously New York, especially Manhattan is restricted on space for operations like Walmart & Costco type retail but they would be far better trying to make that work even if its at a reduced floor plate, or multi level than building government stores that will 100% run at losses and not compete in the first place.

Wouldn't Mamdani be better off discussing and advocating with the big supermarket chains to try and get them to come into the city to provide lower prices?

Kansas City has government run stores, one of them lost almost 1 million dollars alone in a single year.

It will be interesting to see how it all works, but i am very confident coop stores wont work well at all.

 

[Saint]

Than the answer is to allow access for more competition into the city to lower price, such as Walmart, Costco etc etc. Competition drives prices down.

Obviously New York, especially Manhattan is restricted on space for operations like Walmart & Costco type retail but they would be far better trying to make that work even if its at a reduced floor plate, than building government stores that will 100% run at losses and not compete in the first place.

Kansas City has Government run stores, one of them losses almost 1 million dollars in the first year....

It will be interesting to see how it all works, but i am very confident coop stores wont work well at all.

If the Government stores run at a $1m loss, it doesn't necessarily mean it's less efficient, just that it's not making a profit.

How is Kansas running a $1m loss on grocery stores different to having to run $1m in food subsidies via schools or tax breaks?

It also makes it cheaper to implement things like food subsidy programs because you don't need costly voucher systems, you just run it through your Govt grocery stores.

The Co-Ops in the UK have been competitive for over a hundred years and that's without Govt support.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

If the Government stores run at a $1m loss, it doesn't necessarily mean it's less efficient, just that it's not making a profit.

How is Kansas running a $1m loss on grocery stores different to having to run $1m in food subsidies via schools or tax breaks?

It also makes it cheaper to implement things like food subsidy programs because you don't need costly voucher systems, you just run it through your Govt grocery stores.

The Co-Ops in the UK have been competitive for over a hundred years and that's without Govt support.

No, it means its running at a loss, not breaking even. Running at a loss means your losing money.

Breaking even means you are covering the operational costs, just not making a profit. Do NY taxpayers really want its government investing in things they know will operate at a loss. That is simply not sustainable.

Like i don't mean to be rude, but your economic understanding of how all of this is going to work, is simply not there. To be fair though, neither does he.

Also also the reason why the UK is partly successful is because they have a shit load of farm land. They have a much different setup to the US. New York doesn't - especially in winter where it all freezes anyway.

Mamdani is far better off trying to lure the big supermarkets into the city to try and provide more competition to lower prices, than these government stores. Anyways it will be what it will be, but i will just say i told ya so when all the stuff he has promised doesnt happen

 

[Present Not Past]

Also also the reason why the UK is partly successful is because they have a shit load of farm land. They have a much different setup to the US. New York doesn't - especially in winter where it all freezes anyway.

LOL.
The state of New York is the 5th ranked state in the US for producing agricultural products.
A quarter of it's land area is covered in farmland.
That's why New York would have no problem in supplying co-ops with plenty of produce.

 

[10571z]

It's not some bloke trying to open a five and dime on a corner, it's the city of New York and I dare say that holds a bit of clout.

Clout maybe, but they also have massive contracts with stores who want to remain competitive with far more leverage nation wide.

Anyway it’ll be interesting to see if he can pull it off, cheaper groceries sounds good to me.

 

[10571z]

Hopefully Pelosi runs an online stock traders course. Would love to learn her tricks.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

LOL.
The state of New York is the 5th ranked state in the US for producing agricultural products.
A quarter of it's land area is covered in farmland.
That's why New York would have no problem in supplying co-ops with plenty of produce.

Not sure about that.

https://www.farmprogress.com/management/what-us-states-produce-the-most-food-ranking-1-50-

New York isnt even in the top 20 for crop production.

Farm Income and Wealth Statistics - Farm sector financial indicators, State rankings

data.ers.usda.gov

Anyways explain how the farmers in New York, will provide 5 stores in New York, cheaper produce than the supermarkets who are buying this produce is critical mass amounts.

Explain the economics of it to me? How does it all work so the produce is actually cheaper than supermarkets?

How does a super market giant buying mass amount of produce, operating at a 2% margin get out priced?

There's a reason why other government run grocery stores in the US fail and lose money. Because they do not work.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

Hopefully Pelosi runs an online stock traders course. Would love to learn her tricks.

you mean like just insider trading?

 

[10571z]

you mean like just insider trading?

Na, just expert trading

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

It's not some bloke trying to open a five and dime on a corner, it's the city of New York and I dare say that holds a bit of clout.

Well Kevin Rudd was the prime minister of an entire country and his clout was nothing against the mining industry.

 

[IKnowtheDog]

Walmart has the secret to cheaper groceries.

 

[DaTBird187]

Walmart has the secret to cheaper groceries.

Slave labour?

 

[IKnowtheDog]

Slave labour?

Their Thanksgiving Hamper is cheaper in 2025 compared to 2024, of course the key difference is the purchaser gets less in 2025 compared to 2024 but still its cheaper which is the main thing.

 

[DaTBird187]

Their Thanksgiving Hamper is cheaper in 2025 compared to 2024, of course the key difference is the purchaser gets less in 2025 compared to 2024 but still its cheaper which is the main thing.

They’re not even trying anymore.

 

[Present Not Past]

Not sure about that.

View attachment 2472068

https://www.farmprogress.com/management/what-us-states-produce-the-most-food-ranking-1-50-

New York isnt even in the top 20 for crop production.

Farm Income and Wealth Statistics - Farm sector financial indicators, State rankings

data.ers.usda.gov

Anyways explain how the farmers in New York, will provide 5 stores in New York, cheaper produce than the supermarkets who are buying this produce is critical mass amounts.

Explain the economics of it to me? How does it all work so the produce is actually cheaper than supermarkets?

How does a super market giant buying mass amount of produce, operating at a 2% margin get out priced?

There's a reason why other government run grocery stores in the US fail and lose money. Because they do not work.

California - it's always California.
It's at the top of your ****ing list.
California is your answer.

 

[Saint]

The Democrats are toast. Too many of them are just owned by special interests.

Country's longest shutdown and the best negotiation they could get was a promise of a future vote and having to trust MAGA.

I can't tell if they're more corrupt or more stupid, but they're definitely both.

 

[bourbons]

The Democrats are toast. Too many of them are just owned by special interests.

Country's longest shutdown and the best negotiation they could get was a promise of a future vote and having to trust MAGA.

I can't tell if they're more corrupt or more stupid, but they're definitely both.

100%, they are beyond useless. Just posted in the other thread, just retire and get the **** out of the way.

And yep, the shutdown and their master negotiation has extracted a grand total of "trust me bro" from MAGA, absolutely mind melting stuff

I'll be amazed if they even allow the December vote they just promised.