US Open 2013

[Caesar]

I didn't say Federer/Nadal/Murray have never fluffed anything. I am just saying I have trouble thinking of 5 sitter smashes they've missed, when it's very easy to think of a bunch for Djokovic.

I appreciate you like the guy but most people would acknowledge he is a pretty awful net player. That is no real slight on him. Most players have a weak area of their game.

 

[bato]

I didn't say Federer/Nadal/Murray have never fluffed anything. I am just saying I have trouble thinking of 5 sitter smashes they've missed, when it's very easy to think of a bunch for Djokovic.

I appreciate you like the guy but most people would acknowledge he is a pretty awful net player. That is no real slight on him. Most players have a weak area of their game.

Again, a smash isn't the only aspect of net play. As I said, often players smash it from the baseline - Rafa loves that smash for example. When he has fluffed a smash at the net, it has only happened four or five noticeable times. It's a simple put-away for any player, and there are factors like the wind and sun you have to take into consideration when players miss sitters. Federer has certainly done the same throughout his 15-year career.

I won't make any further comment as this is going in circles.

The only net-play that REALLY matters is the one at the end. Peace.

 

[matt_897]

Casear, you pretty much have written down what I think about it. Djokovic has never been that good at the net and probably never will be, Rafa also knows when to come in to finish the point, more so than Novak does. And as Casear has said, it's no real blight on him, plenty of other areas of his game make up for it and then some. But credit for him working on that part of his game.

 

[evdo1706]

You're talking ability. I'm talking NATURAL talent. Nadal's execution has been better than Djokovic's throughout the years, but Novak has by far the better game style.

You are free to have your opinion but when you analyze each area of their game as I showed above that statement doesn't have any merit.

I'll use Dimitrov as an example. The guy is constantly compared to Federer (the most talented tennis player who has walked the earth). But his ability to consistently execute his game plan and play the way he wants to just hasn't come yet. He's still young.

Now don't tell me Dimitrov is more talented than Nadal because he tried to copy Federer shot by shot. What's next? Rajeev Ram is more talented because his hits his serve and forehand like Pete?

I would have it as this:

Serve-- Rafa
Movement-- Novak
Forehand-- Rafa
Backhand-- Novak
Net play-- Novak. Rafa never ventures towards that part of the court.
Overheads- ??? - I don't understand how that is relevant to being talented whatsoever.

Mental Strength & Focus and fighting spirit- Should be put into one category: Mental Toughness - Rafa

Even going by your own classification it looks pretty even to me. However I strongly disagree that Novak has a better net game. It's not about how many times you come to the net. It's about how you execute it. You should watch Rafa's doubles matches to see how good he is at the net. You must have already noticed that this is not just my opinion. Most people I know either on online tennis forums or in real life have this opinion. You are probably the first one that I have met who says Novak has a better net game.

Also you gotta be kidding me when you say Novak is a better mover than Rafa. I would give it to him if you just limit that to hard courts. On clay and grass it's not even close. Novak is a terrible mover on grass. Just this year he fell down like 15 times in the semi and the final at Wimbledon. On clay there has never been anyone close to Rafa. He has visibly slowed down a little bit now but his movement in around 2008 was insane. Novak slips and loses his balance on natural surfaces quite often.

And why aren't overheads important? They are just as much part of the game as forehands and backhands, although not used as often but they are for sure not tweeners which you see once in a blue moon. Novak is by far the worst in that department among the elite players. Rafa is probably the best since Sampras.
------------------
The other thing you gotta remember is that Rafa was a child prodigy, he beat the french open champion Albert Costa at Monte Carlo when he was just 16 years old and a peak Federer in Miami when he was just 17. Carlos Moya used to talk a lot about him as to how good he was even in his early teens. I'm sure he was not just able at that age but talented too.
-------------------
The bottom line is there is no scale to judge talent, all the elite players are talented in some way or other and that is why they are where they are. Statements like "one is definitely more talented than the other" are simply preposterous.

 

[bato]

You are free to have your opinion but when you analyze each area of their game as I showed above that statement doesn't have any merit.



Now don't tell me Dimitrov is more talented than Nadal because he tried to copy Federer shot by shot. What's next? Rajeev Ram is more talented because his hits his serve and forehand like Pete?



Even going by your own classification it looks pretty even to me. However I strongly disagree that Novak has a better net game. It's not about how many times you come to the net. It's about how you execute it. You should watch Rafa's doubles matches to see how good he is at the net. You must have already noticed that this is not just my opinion. Most people I know either on online tennis forums or in real life have this opinion. You are probably the first one that I have met who says Novak has a better net game.

Also you gotta be kidding me when you say Novak is a better mover than Rafa. I would give it to him if you just limit that to hard courts. On clay and grass it's not even close. Novak is a terrible mover on grass. Just this year he fell down like 15 times in the semi and the final at Wimbledon. On clay there has never been anyone close to Rafa. He has visibly slowed down a little bit now but his movement in around 2008 was insane. Novak slips and loses his balance on natural surfaces quite often.

And why aren't overheads important? They are just as much part of the game as forehands and backhands, although not used as often but they are for sure not tweeners which you see once in a blue moon. Novak is by far the worst in that department among the elite players. Rafa is probably the best since Sampras.
------------------
The other thing you gotta remember is that Rafa was a child prodigy, he beat the french open champion Albert Costa at Monte Carlo when he was just 16 years old and a peak Federer in Miami when he was just 17. Carlos Moya used to talk a lot about him as to how good he was even in his early teens. I'm sure he was not just able at that age but talented too.
-------------------
The bottom line is there is no scale to judge talent, all the elite players are talented in some way or other and that is why they are where they are. Statements like "one is definitely more talented than the other" are simply preposterous.

You just wasted a good 30 minutes writing that up, when I already know how good Nadal is...

I feel sorry for you.

As for Nadal moving better than Djokovic? LOL. Novak's life is based on stretching, moving and agility. As a teenager, he NEVER used weights because he focused solely on movement. You realise how slippery Wimbledon is? It's FRESH GRASS! EVERYONE was slipping.

Why do I even bother with people that only see it from one side. People that bring up petty little things just to get their word in.

Hopefully that's enough proof. NO ONE slides and moves better than Djokovic. EXPERT commentators have said that time after time. May want to have a read of this: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/te...-they-might-give-him-extra-grip-on-grass.html

 

[Flameboy]

In fairness you did start it by saying "Djokovic is definitely more talented than Rafa". That's the very definition of seeing it from one side...

 

[bato]

In fairness you did start it by saying "Djokovic is definitely more talented than Rafa". That's the very definition of seeing it from one side...

I said, Djokovic is more talented, but overall Rafa is the BETTER player because he executes much more consistently and effectively than Djokovic. Sigh... if that's not a balanced view, then I don't know what is...

 

[Flameboy]

So let me get this straight.

- Nadal is the better player
- Djokovic is more talented
- Nadal has more ability-wise
- When they're retired, Novak will at worst be considered Nadal's equal

It's balanced so much as it's contradictory.

 

[bato]

So let me get this straight.

- Nadal is the better player
- Djokovic is more talented
- Nadal has more ability-wise
- When they're retired, Novak will at worst be considered Nadal's equal

It's balanced so much as it's contradictory.

If you seriously want to put it like that, then of course it'd sound completely contradictory. Nadal has shown more ability-wise, just look at his results. Dimitrov has a talented game, but you don't see him dominating. That's just an example that no one seems to comprehend, because you're all too busy trying explain to me how good Rafa is - which I already know.

Err, what? I said he has it in him. I'm only of that view because Nadal's knees are dodgy. He has had more physical problems than Djokovic.

 

[evdo1706]

Why do I even bother with people that only see it from one side. People that bring up petty little things just to get their word in.

Hopefully that's enough proof. NO ONE slides and moves better than Djokovic. EXPERT commentators have said that time after time. May want to have a read of this: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/te...-they-might-give-him-extra-grip-on-grass.html

Probably he needed those "special" shoes in the first place because he is a terrible mover on grass otherwise. He slides better than anyone on hard court, already mentioned that. In fact it's almost unreal the way he does it. Those pics are your proofs? Let me give you more. The next thing you will tell me that Djokovic is a better mover on grass than Federer and Sampras too because he learned stretching as a kid . Well as you rightly said everyone slips on grass occasionally but hardly anyone from the top players slips 10 times in one match that too on worn out grass in the semi and the final. In any case I think I have made my point and let me assure you that it will be very hard for you to convince neutral people that Novak is definitely more talented than Rafa. Good luck and good bye!!!

 

[bato]

Probably he needed those "special" shoes in the first place because he is a terrible mover on grass otherwise. He slides better than anyone on hard court, already mentioned that. In fact it's almost unreal the way he does it. Those pics are your proofs? Let me give you more. The next thing you will tell me that Djokovic is a better mover on grass than Federer and Sampras too because he learned stretching as a kid . Well as you rightly said everyone slips on grass occasionally but hardly anyone from the top players slips 10 times in one match that too on worn out grass in the semi and the final. In any case I think I have made my point and let me assure you that it will be very hard for you to convince neutral people that Novak is definitely more talented than Rafa. Good luck and good bye!!!

Right. Because Del Potro, Berdych, Tsonga, Federer, Nadal, Murray etc. all haven't slipped more than once like Djokovic did? Love your reasoning behind that. Keep it up