US textbook omits evolution

[Moo]

There was nothing.

Then there was an enormous release of energy, all the energy we will ever know and everything that ever will be ......released/created in that one instance.

We know nothing about that one moment and why.

If someone wants to call that one creative second/force - God .....who cares?

 

[CharacterFirst]

Eternal is an accepted property of God? Says who?

Its part of a definition of a maximally great being! Its what God is!
Make up your own definition of God if you like, but you won't be discussing the same being as others.

 

[Max zero]

Its part of a definition of a maximally great being! Its what God is!
Make up your own definition of God if you like, but you won't be discussing the same being as others.

So it's just made up? You just declare it and it is so?

Why not just declare that God is unquestionable and we can end the debate forever?

Oh wait...

 

[tb_fanboy]

So long as they keep it to themselves.

Which is why macro evolution should not be taught?

 

[Mani]

http://richarddawkins.net/foundation_articles/2012/8/23/censorship-of-a-textbook-to-remove-evolution

It's a strange place, the US. The only western country that has a problem with us coming from apes.

Does anyone think there is a case to be made for "teaching the controversy" or teaching creation/intelligent design alongside evolution in the US, or elsewhere?

As someone who grew up a Christian, like most I think it's a load of shit. It's pseudoscience, and it's entire philosophy comes from "God said so", rather than the evidence.

edit: Should religious schools here be allowed to teach creationism and omit evolution, if that's what parents want?

Surveys also show that approximately 60% of the US population believe that the earth is about 6000 years old

 

[Mani]

But fits right in with, say, fundamentalist Islamic states

A good point that is unpalatable in the USA.
Then again even the age of the earth is biblically derived in the USA from the number of begats in the old testament

 

[Mani]

Which is why macro evolution should not be taught?

List 16 reasons why macro evolution offends you

 

[tb_fanboy]

List 16 reasons why macro evolution offends you

It doesn't offend me but pie eyed said everyone can believe what they want as long as they keep it to themselves and that's his argument as to why creationism shouldn't be taught....last time I checked macro evolution was still a belief not fact so by that logic it shouldn't be taught. I believe it should be taught but not as a fact but a theory as to the way we are.

 

[Mani]

It doesn't offend me but pie eyed said everyone can believe what they want as long as they keep it to themselves and that's his argument as to why creationism shouldn't be taught....last time I checked macro evolution was still a belief not fact so by that logic it shouldn't be taught. I believe it should be taught but not as a fact but a theory as to the way we are.

I see.
Science distinguishes between verifiable and evidence based theory and hypotheses or conjectures.
People sometimes think a "theory" is an idea or concept that is based upon opinion or belief. In science we talk about gravitational theory or the theory of thermodynamics etc.

A good example that may clear the confusion is String Theory. Now ST is not a scientific theory or discipline yet. Why? Well the theory does not have any observational or measurable data that supports it (or indeed can refute it) So ST as it stands at the moment can be best described as a mathematical philosophy. Until reproducible verifiable scientific evidence emerges that can support it, it will remain so.

Do you believe that macro evolutionary theory lacks scientific evidence as a basis of support?

 

[Tassieboy]

America never fail to amaze me with their stupidity. We're fortunate enough to live in a far better country. Although we have our misgivings, we usually base our decisions on rationality and evidence, unlike America.

 

[Mani]

America never fail to amaze me with their stupidity. We're fortunate enough to live in a far better country. Although we have our misgivings, we usually base our decisions on rationality and evidence, unlike America.

It's difficult to make that claim even when one looks at the extremes in the USA.

For example, in the USA about 60% of the population believe in a biblically determined age for the earth, (~6000 years old).
A similar percentage reject the notion that human activties such as fossil fuel combustion is causing global warming.
In a recent survey, about 43% of Americans wrongly identified Australia on a map of the world.
The USA makes up about 5% of the global population and yet look at some glaring statistics about The US citizenry:

US produces about 30% of the global pollution and waste
US consumes about 1/3 of the worlds resources
US has the worlds largest prison population, which makes about 28% of the global prison number
US consumes about 85% of the globally manufactured pharmaceutical drugs
US spends more on its military than the rest of the worlds nations combined

What the f*** is going here?

 

[Pie eyed]

Which is why macro evolution should not be taught?

Why stop at evolution, Maths, Geography, all science?
No Christian needs to know anything but scripture and the correct method of protecting the local priest from child services.

 

[Mani]

Why stop at evolution, Maths, Geography, all science?
No Christian needs to know anything but scripture and the correct method of protecting the local priest from child services.

Just Christians?
What about Muslims, Jews, Baha'is, Buddhists?

 

[Pie eyed]

Just Christians?
What about Muslims, Jews, Baha'is, Buddhists?

We only concern ourselves with Christians in this specific discussion most American Fundamentalist nutcases being of the Christ worshiping flavor. There can be only one real God per evidential discussion for obvious reasons.
If we were discussing say Mohammad, we would be discussing claims of the Quran and and the evidence which supports said claims, likewise Buddha and Buddism would be another kettle of facts.

 

[Mani]

We only concern ourselves with Christians in this specific discussion most American Fundamentalist nutcases being of the Christ worshiping flavor. There can be only one real God per evidential discussion for obvious reasons.
If we were discussing say Mohammad, we would be discussing claims of the Quran and and the evidence which supports said claims, likewise Buddha and Buddism would be another kettle of facts.

You do realise that Christianity in the USA has been morally contaminated by the barbarism of the Torah (old testament) and the corporatized capitalistic immorality imperative?

Just because someone calls themselves a Christian, doesn't mean they reflect the morals and ethics outlined in the gospels. Remember Hitler was a Christian.

So called god fearing folks in the USA support wars, abundant firearms, assassinations, state executions etc., and yet froth at the mouth at the thought of abortions, gay marriage, marihuana legalization etc.

It's a strange world, Jesus was supposedly Jewish, and yet the Jews reject Christianity. In other words the Judaism doesn't recognize Jesus as the messiah and yet the Torah or the Old Testament is coupled with the New Testament to form one bible that Christians follow

What is going on here?

 

[bombermick]

There was nothing.

Then there was an enormous release of energy, all the energy we will ever know and everything that ever will be ......released/created in that one instance.

We know nothing about that one moment and why.

If someone wants to call that one creative second/force - God .....who cares?

How the universe began/how life started is a separate discussion to whether life evolved. The later has a mountain of evidence to support it - enough to stand up to 150 years of religious types trying to pull it down.

How can anyone seriously believe we shared the world with dinosaurs? If any of the great civilizations had come across a T-Rex, I'm reasonably certain someone would have cared to write that down.

 

[Upton Sinclair]

It doesn't offend me but pie eyed said everyone can believe what they want as long as they keep it to themselves and that's his argument as to why creationism shouldn't be taught....last time I checked macro evolution was still a belief not fact so by that logic it shouldn't be taught. I believe it should be taught but not as a fact but a theory as to the way we are.

Last time you checked, LMFAO... I've seen the sources that you consider valid.

 

[Pie eyed]

You do realise that Christianity in the USA has been morally contaminated by the barbarism of the Torah (old testament) and the corporatized capitalistic immorality imperative?

Just because someone calls themselves a Christian, doesn't mean they reflect the morals and ethics outlined in the gospels. Remember Hitler was a Christian.

So called god fearing folks in the USA support wars, abundant firearms, assassinations, state executions etc., and yet froth at the mouth at the thought of abortions, gay marriage, marihuana legalization etc.

It's a strange world, Jesus was supposedly Jewish, and yet the Jews reject Christianity. In other words the Judaism doesn't recognize Jesus as the messiah and yet the Torah or the Old Testament is coupled with the New Testament to form one bible that Christians follow

What is going on here?

Now you are splitting hairs.
A christian is someone who identifies as such. They reflect the morals they live by even if you and I find them abhorrent and/or slightly fringe lunatic.

I realise that nearly everything in the US has been morally contaminated. Christianity is no different.
We in Australia are not that far from the US in regard to many peoples views on all the subject you mentioned, the vast majority identifying as Christian.

 

[CharacterFirst]

So it's just made up? You just declare it and it is so?

Why not just declare that God is unquestionable and we can end the debate forever?

Oh wait...

Are you serious Max? Come on, lift. It is the definition of God, you donk.

 

[Hard_to_Beat]

...suffer the little children.

 

[Sydney Bloods]

...suffer the little children.

So science and god's aren't allowed in US schools apparently.

 

[CharacterFirst]

...suffer the little children.

Yep. I guess that is the whole point.

Jesus was saying don't stop the little children coming to me, but the schools want to do just that, and have done just that in the States.

 

[Max zero]

Are you serious Max? Come on, lift. It is the definition of God, you donk.

That's my point.

Any criticism of God is simply dismissed as 'not applicable'.

"God is eternal becomes all supreme beings are eternal, duh."

Water tight reasoning if I have ever seen it.

Absurdity upon absurdity yet somehow increasing in credibility. Faith is a wondrous thing.

 

[CharacterFirst]

That's my point.

Any criticism of God is simply dismissed as 'not applicable'.

We are talking about the generally accepted definition of God - he is eternal. Why are you up in arms about that?

 

[Sydney Bloods]

Yep. I guess that is the whole point.

Jesus was saying don't stop the little children coming to me, but the schools want to do just that, and have done just that in the States.

Sounds like your god's pretty pathetic then.....hasn't he heard you catch more flies with honey?