USA - Are They A Backward Nation?

[fairdinkum]

MEDS - I have some questions for you.

Which country has working regulations more in check with your neoliberal ideology? Aus or US?

And which country enjoys better public infrastructure, healthcare, education etc? Aus or US?

And which country has less poverty? Aus or US?

 

[acker]

Someone show me another country in the world as open and transparent as the

USA

Yes they have warts ..............................but don't we (Aboriginal settlements)
Yes they have nuts.................................but don't we (Home grown Jihadists)
Yes they have idiot politicians...................but don't we (Tony Abbott/NSW State Labor)
Yes they have intolerable racists...............but don't we (Wilson Tuckey)
Yes they religious zealots.........................but don't we (Fred Nile)
They even have homophobics...................but don't we (Todd McKenny)

I was also reflecting about all the more open and transparent Islamic countries around the world.

I sort of came up with Malaysia where their Deputy President was imprisoned for sodomy.

So I ask you

Exactly what country are they backwards in comparison to ?

 

[medusala]

And which country has less poverty? Aus or US?

Which country has a higher GDP per head?

What do you think would happen in Australia if illlegal immigrants made up 5-10% of the population?

It would ruin our infrastructure and cause a heap of poverty.

 

[fairdinkum]

Which country has a higher GDP per head?

What do you think would happen in Australia if illlegal immigrants made up 5-10% of the population?

It would ruin our infrastructure and cause a heap of poverty.

Don't pull a jumpin2exile on me now.

Here is my point: Our minimum wage is roughly twice as much as theirs IIRC, and yet our living standards seem to be better. I say 'and yet' because the neolibs would have us believe that a minimum wage is the surest ticket to economic ruin...

 

[RUNVS]

Which country has a higher GDP per head?

What do you think would happen in Australia if illlegal immigrants made up 5-10% of the population?

It would ruin our infrastructure and cause a heap of poverty.

GDP means very little in real terms (as costs are different from country to country). A better way to tell how good a country is is liooking at the Human Development Index (HDI).

On wikipedia

The Human Development Index (HDI) is a comparative measure of life expectancy, literacy, education and standards of living for countries worldwide. It is a standard means of measuring well-being, especially child welfare. It is used to distinguish whether the country is a developed, a developing or an under-developed country, and also to measure the impact of economic policies on quality of life.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Development_Index

 

[acker]

Which country has a higher GDP per head?

What do you think would happen in Australia if illlegal immigrants made up 5-10% of the population?

It would ruin our infrastructure and cause a heap of poverty.

So thats why the government looks like it will bring in Pacific islanders here to pick fruit !

Please explain your reasoning for a heap of poverty considering this country is already experiencing acute labor shortages, but probably not in the places that Rupert Murdoch rightfully described "the bludgers" were living such as the over grown cities and overgrown welfare ridden aboriginal communities.

The work is there but we have a few issues hindering Australians doing the job but can easily be cleaned up.

My view is currently with the Pacific idea all bets are off.

But we do need to shrink urbanization and encourage regionalisation because the manufacturing industry that drove mass urbanisation in the first place is now in retreat and will never get back to it's previous peak with the likes of Ford, Holden, Nissan, Mitsubishi etc doing any meaningful future production. Nor a lot of other various urban manufacturing industries including a myriad of current ones on life support.

As for the fruit picking/pruning and rural work well some things need to be addressed

1. The wages are far to low and need to be increased
2. The government makes it to cosy for people to remain in cities and communities without jobs and it detracts any incentives for people to go where they are
3. A lot of these places are isolated, maybe the government could help transporting Australian workers to them and get them home every couple of weeks
4. The government could check the accommodation and conditions are OK on these properties getting their fruit picked

 

[medusala]

Please explain your reasoning for a heap of poverty considering this country is already experiencing acute labor shortages,

Australia does not have a labour shortage. It has a shortage of people willing to work. That is not the same thing.

The work is there but we have a few issues hindering Australians doing the job but can easily be cleaned up.

I agree. Its called the welfare and IR system.

 

[Oscarman]

Australia does not have a labour shortage. It has a shortage of people willing to work. That is not the same thing.

Correct. Lazy ****ers should be forced to work after no more than 12 months.

 

[acker]

Australia does not have a labour shortage. It has a shortage of people willing to work. That is not the same thing.

I explained that in my post the bludger

There is now bugger all difference between the urban bludger who lives in a city that is now collapsing due to the manufacturing and banking industries coming back from peak demand. (Honestly what can an accountant do that cant be done by an interfaced computer these days)

Eg Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane, Perth, Adelaide, New York, Paris, London and all the other over grown over priced declining post manufacturing/banking age hubs or new rust belt whatever you like to call them.

and the

Remote community bludger who lives in a remote community due to an ongoing attachment to the land.

Either way we should make both productive again by leaving their dead end communities to pick fruit.

Simple solution

 

[Big John]

America doesn't use the metric system.

 

[acker]

America doesn't use the metric system.

I wouldn't exactly start running around claiming that as a win.

Sure it was a win for making it easier for a kid to use a calculator.

But I think it was a loss for making a kid have to use their brain.

I was in about grade 3/4 when that got changed and we had a huge upheaval.

Fahrenheit to Centigrade
Stones and Pounds to Kilos
Yards and Feet to Meters
Miles to Kilometers
Acres to Hectares

But one thing we did have a more natural ability for and I notice it looking at my own kids was division and fractions. And worse watching anyone with an electronic device near them at point of sale try to comprehend any type of mathematic conversation ..eg over or under priced.

 

[TigerGlory]

I think the fact that its taken them this long to have a black man in contention for presidency speaks for itself.

Truly, America's past actions really dont give it a good name.

 

[medusala]

I think the fact that its taken them this long to have a black man in contention for presidency speaks for itself.

Why given their demographics?

Look at how few aboriginal mps Australia has had. How many non whites have led Euro countries?

 

[Big John]

I wouldn't exactly start running around claiming that as a win.

Sure it was a win for making it easier for a kid to use a calculator.

But I think it was a loss for making a kid have to use their brain.

I was in about grade 3/4 when that got changed and we had a huge upheaval.

Fahrenheit to Centigrade
Stones and Pounds to Kilos
Yards and Feet to Meters
Miles to Kilometers
Acres to Hectares

But one thing we did have a more natural ability for and I notice it looking at my own kids was division and fractions. And worse watching anyone with an electronic device near them at point of sale try to comprehend any type of mathematic conversation ..eg over or under priced.

I understand a bit where your coming from with the division thing. Footy scores are the reason i'm very strong with the 6 times table, but if your in a field where you need to convert units a bit, not using S.I. units would be a lot of wasted effort.

 

[acker]

I understand a bit where your coming from with the division thing. Footy scores are the reason i'm very strong with the 6 times table, but if your in a field where you need to convert units a bit, not using S.I. units would be a lot of wasted effort.

Well that puts any one on a checkout who's scanner fails to correctly price a special in peril.

Every one needs some basic mental maths skills. I try to drum into my kids head fear of getting ripped off when getting change back.

 

[acker]

I think the fact that its taken them this long to have a black man in contention for presidency speaks for itself.

Truly, America's past actions really dont give it a good name.

Yet we treat Germany like a role model nation.

Cripes Hitler never got there without the support of most of those Germans grand parents.

And lets not forget the humble Japanese, who's party trick is to launch a full on air/sea attack on you without any prior warning.

 

[TigerGlory]

Yet we treat Germany like a role model nation.

Cripes Hitler never got there without the support of most of those Germans grand parents.

And lets not forget the humble Japanese, who's party trick is to launch a full on air/sea attack on you without any prior warning.

You cant compare the US to those nations can you though?

USA marches into Iraq in the name of peace, yet years later they are still there sucking up as much oil as they possibly can. What about all the other nations that actually do need help? Zimbabwe? No chance, because they have no oil.

USA spends billions of dollars building nuclear weapons to aim at a country for the sole reason that their ideology is different.

USA launches into a 10 year war with a nation for the same reason as above, only to leave the people they claim to be protecting to be run over by a bunch of angry communists.

Hitler for the most part was actually a good German leader before war broke out. He fixed a big chuck of the economic crisis that was in Germany. Obviously his ideas was racist crap, however, he was an effective leader nonetheless.

The Japs were dirty, no argument there.

 

[acker]

You cant compare the US to those nations can you though?

USA marches into Iraq in the name of peace, yet years later they are still there sucking up as much oil as they possibly can. What about all the other nations that actually do need help? Zimbabwe? No chance, because they have no oil.

USA spends billions of dollars building nuclear weapons to aim at a country for the sole reason that their ideology is different.

USA launches into a 10 year war with a nation for the same reason as above, only to leave the people they claim to be protecting to be run over by a bunch of angry communists.

Hitler for the most part was actually a good German leader before war broke out. He fixed a big chuck of the economic crisis that was in Germany. Obviously his ideas was racist crap, however, he was an effective leader nonetheless.

The Japs were dirty, no argument there.

Why not ?

No ones saying they are perfect.

For a while GW was a good Iraqi leader fixing things until he quickly lost the plot.

As for the nukes dont worry that other country the Russians has a pretty impessive arsenal of them pointing back at the US

I think the world nukes numbers stack up something like

45% USA
35% Russia
10% China
10% Everyone else

 

[Copernicus]

My question is is the UAS a backward nation compared to countries like Australia, Canada, New Zealand and Western Europe in regards to social issues.

- USA doesnt have universal healthcare
- Poverty is quite high for a developed nation
- Highest level of gun crime (per capita) in the entire western world
- Deeply religious which means problems such as homophobia, racism and sexism (they would never elect a non christian as President)
- Have capital punishment (they are one of 5 nations in the world to have executed minors since 1990).

To find other nations which are similar to the US in regards to crime, capital punishment, poverty and health care you would have to look to the 3rd world.

I guess you could say so. Most Americans would beg to differ, though. Americans view social healthcare, in general, as a disastrous idea. Already, the US pays more per person for healthcare, and that's only for a very small segment of socialised medicine. Total universal healthcare in the US would be catastrophically expensive, and would remove or impede the bent for innovation and research that has made the US the leader in medical advances. You take the bad with the good.

I need not mention the complications that have arisen in the healthcare system due to illegal immigrants, too. When you hear people bandying about the numbers of people who are uninsured, don't forget that it includes at least 10-12 million illegals, as well as those who actually choose to go uninsured for one reason or another.

The gun thing is a problem but you won't see anything done about it. The 2nd amendment is too ingrained, and there are too many people like some of my friends who are very attached to their guns and see them as the embodiment of freedom. It's very much a difference in culture. I can't put that down as being backwards - the problem there is the large number of violent criminals, which in turn goes back to other, wider problems such as disintegrating inner cities, the poor level of education in some areas and the ingrained poverty that exists in some areas. The vast majority of gun owners use their weapons either as a means of self-defence or for hunting, and if you take away their guns you're still left with an armed and dangerous criminal underclass.

Deeply religious - yes, and that is not going to change, not for a while. Atttitudes have generally changed regarding race and sex, though. It's only the older folks who retain those backwards attitudes. The typical religious person of my age or slightly older is much more attuned to issues of race and sex. 20 years ago Barack Obama and Sarah Palin would not be running for the highest offices in the land, and that really shows to me how things have changed. You won't see an aboriginal running for PM in Australia. Homophobia will continue to exist among many of your southern Baptists and such, though.

In the end, you have to understand Americans more when you make simple blanket statements that apply to your European-style social democracies like Australia or Canada. The US has its problems but to call it 'backward' is ridiculous IMO.

 

[Galactic]

You cant compare the US to those nations can you though?

USA marches into Iraq in the name of peace, yet years later they are still there sucking up as much oil as they possibly can. What about all the other nations that actually do need help? Zimbabwe? No chance, because they have no oil.

USA spends billions of dollars building nuclear weapons to aim at a country for the sole reason that their ideology is different.

USA launches into a 10 year war with a nation for the same reason as above, only to leave the people they claim to be protecting to be run over by a bunch of angry communists.

They marched into Iraq to do defend themselves actually, remember? The "world" thought Iraq had WMD. It was understandable in the climate at the time after 9/11. Kick the door in and search the house for the wepons. Now, staying and nation building wasn't part of the script and neither was the madness that followed. Infact nor Iraq or Zimbabwe is supposed to be getting rebuilt under the costitution of the USA. Taxpayers dont pay the expense for other countries, so I guess the conservative Bush forgot that bit.

They also pay for that oil and the Iraq gov as far as I know, has not given any of their profit to the U.S for the hundreds of billions they have spent allowing them to have it.Never mind the schools, armies ect, that were built inc the ones that got blown up. We should also think about what the story would be in Iraq if the U.S had not gone in and/or stayed. It would be either Saddam or Iran controlling Iraq right now. Any better you think?

Secondly the hundreds of billions they spend on defense in the USA's is for a good part now days aimed at eliminating nukes,defending against them, not building more. Aiming them at countries for the sole reason of having a different Ideology? One could only wish that was true. I would sleep better at night if that was the case.

Are you ref to the Iraq gov as communists?I dont get your last point.

 

[medusala]

When you hear people bandying about the numbers of people who are uninsured, don't forget that it includes at least 10-12 million illegals, as well as those who actually choose to go uninsured for one reason or another.

Yes its basically fraudulent to include illegal immigrants.

Doesn't stop all and sundry doing it though.

Just as people neglect the impact of illegals on wages, poverty and crime.

 

[volcboy]

GDP means very little in real terms (as costs are different from country to country). A better way to tell how good a country is is liooking at the Human Development Index (HDI).

On wikipedia

The Human Development Index (HDI) is a comparative measure of life expectancy, literacy, education and standards of living for countries worldwide. It is a standard means of measuring well-being, especially child welfare. It is used to distinguish whether the country is a developed, a developing or an under-developed country, and also to measure the impact of economic policies on quality of life.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Development_Index

HDI is the best overall measure of how progressive a country is. The NeoLibs don't like it though, because all of those pesky socialist Nordic countries (not to mention France) are up near the top. I suspect Iceland will go down a few rankings in the near future, unfortunately...

 

[krudmonk]

I'm surprised more people haven't cited our crime stats. A kid up in Oakland got shot through a front door while trick-or-treating last Friday. The really sad part is that the story doesn't totally shock people. There are shootings all the time.

 

[RUNVS]

I'm surprised more people haven't cited our crime stats. A kid up in Oakland got shot through a front door while trick-or-treating last Friday. The really sad part is that the story doesn't totally shock people. There are shootings all the time.

I did mention gun crime in my first post.

Though i have to say that my main problem with the USA is religion. So many of their problems stem from religion. If they were more moderate in their belief's (like the UK, Canada, Australia, New Zelanad and Western Europe) i believe they would be alot better.

 

[mcgarnacle]

they couldnt be any worse than the state of nsw