USA - Military Blackhawk crashes into AA Passenger Aircraft

[HirdsTheWord]

One of the first things Trump did was fire 3k air traffic controllers.

Actions have consequences.

I was not aware he sacked 3,000 ATC?

 

[Zidane98]

I was not aware he sacked 3,000 ATC?

He put a stop on hiring new atc controllers immediately upon inauguration, of which there were thousands lined up to be hired. The 3k number came from the FAA who have been requesting 3k more ATC employees. It is a mistake to characterise that as reporting them being fired.


Trump did however immediately fire most of the congress mandated FAA safety advisory committee on inauguration:

Trump fires heads of TSA, Coast Guard and guts key aviation safety advisory committee

President Donald Trump has moved quickly to remake the Department of Homeland Security by firing the heads of the Transportation Security Administration and Coast Guard before their terms are up while eliminating all the members of a key aviation security advisory group.

apnews.com

This would be the same safety advisroy committee likely advising on hiring more ATC controllers etc etc.


Either way, not a good look that 8 days after gutting the FAA's safety advisroy committee there is a completely preventable fatal accident with huge safety oversights.

 

[faible]

FAA have been complaining for years that they're underfunded, under resourced, and understaffed. Turns out one ATC was covering both helicopter and plane traffic.

Live: Black box found as recovery teams scour wreckage of Washington plane crash

An extensive search for bodies in the Potomac River is continuing after an American Airlines passenger jet and a US Army Black Hawk helicopter collided midair. Follow live.

www.abc.net.au

One air traffic controller was responsible for coordinating helicopter traffic and arriving and departing planes when the collision happened, according to a report by the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) obtained by The Associated Press.

The configuration was “not normal,” the report said, but a person familiar with the matter said the staffing at the air traffic control tower on Wednesday night was at a normal level.

The person spoke to the AP on the condition of anonymity.

They said the two positions were regularly combined when controllers needed to step away from the console for breaks, were in the process of a shift change, or when air traffic was slow.

Staffing Was ‘Not Normal’ at Air Traffic Tower During Plane Crash

The report, reviewed by The New York Times, said that one controller was communicating with both helicopters and planes. Those jobs are typically assigned to two people, not one.

www.nytimes.com

Staffing at the air traffic control tower at Ronald Reagan National Airport was “not normal for the time of day and volume of traffic,” according to an internal preliminary Federal Aviation Administration safety report about the collision that was reviewed by The New York Times.

The controller who was handling helicopters in the airport’s vicinity Wednesday night was also instructing planes that were landing and departing from its runways. Those jobs typically are assigned to two controllers, rather than one.

This increases the workload for the air traffic controller and can complicate the job. One reason is that the controllers can use different radio frequencies to communicate with pilots flying planes and pilots flying helicopters. While the controller is communicating with pilots of the helicopter and the jet, the two sets of pilots may not be able to hear each other.

Like most of the country’s air traffic control facilities, the tower at Reagan airport has been understaffed for years. The tower there was nearly a third below targeted staff levels, with 19 fully certified controllers as of September 2023, according to the most recent Air Traffic Controller Workforce Plan, an annual report to Congress that contains target and actual staffing levels. The targets set by the F.A.A. and the controllers’ union call for 30.

The shortage — caused by years of employee turnover and tight budgets, among other factors — has forced many controllers to work up to six days a week and 10 hours a day.

The F.A.A. did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

 

[Couch Coach]

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/05/14/business/faa-short-on-air-traffic-controllers/index.html

FAA has 11,500 Air Traffic Controllers
They want 14,600 to be fully staffed.

Currently they are 3,100 short so ATC's are required to 'work two jobs' when another ATC is on a break or there is a shift change period.

All ATC's have been issued a "deferred resignation" offer despite the current shortfall.

Trump administration offers roughly 2 million federal workers a buyout to resign​

An email went out to the federal workforce Tuesday evening, with a subject line that had ties to Elon Musk.

www.nbcnews.com

Federal air crash responders all got the ‘resign’ email​

Not cool: Responding to a tragic accident in the dark and cold, while knowing your inbox has an email asking to resign from federal service.

federalnewsnetwork.com

 

[HirdsTheWord]

He put a stop on hiring new atc controllers immediately upon inauguration, of which there were thousands lined up to be hired. The 3k number came from the FAA who have been requesting 3k more ATC employees. It is a mistake to characterise that as reporting them being fired.


Trump did however immediately fire most of the congress mandated FAA safety advisory committee on inauguration:

Trump fires heads of TSA, Coast Guard and guts key aviation safety advisory committee

President Donald Trump has moved quickly to remake the Department of Homeland Security by firing the heads of the Transportation Security Administration and Coast Guard before their terms are up while eliminating all the members of a key aviation security advisory group.

apnews.com

This would be the same safety advisroy committee likely advising on hiring more ATC controllers etc etc.


Either way, not a good look that 8 days after gutting the FAA's safety advisroy committee there is a completely preventable fatal accident with huge safety oversights.

at face value yes but has it actually been determined that there was an issue with ATC in regard to this crash? or rather the chopper pilot?

 

[Zidane98]

at face value yes but has it actually been determined that there was an issue with ATC in regard to this crash? or rather the chopper pilot?

Investigation will determine that but it doesn't help when you cancel an FAA Advisory safety committee completely on inauguration that oversees stuff just like this.

 

[liz]

at face value yes but has it actually been determined that there was an issue with ATC in regard to this crash? or rather the chopper pilot?

Nothing has been determined. Which is why all the “deep state” professionals are making statements absent of speculation or premature blaming.

It’s just the elected guys who already know the answers (“common sense”) and are implying blame on individuals less than 24 hrs after the crash occurred.

 

[kalex6251]

captain bone spurs speaks and the murdoch $cum act accordingly - note the difference with the above sober analysis (tl/dr: trump and murdoch DEI hires are $CUM)

Andrew Lawrence (@ndrew.bsky.social)

if dems dont all just blame trump for this and fill the void, the voters that decide elections will think the plane crashed bc of dei [contains quote post or other embedded content]

bsky.app

 

[Spearman]

ATC being undermanned has been an issue for decades. Like a lot of infrastructure, just kicked down the road for the next bunch to ignore.

 

[faible]

ATC being undermanned has been an issue for decades. Like a lot of infrastructure, just kicked down the road for the next bunch to ignore.

If only Trump had gotten around to infrastructure week this would have all been resolved? Maybe in 2029.

 

[Frank Bunn]

A great analysis by Captain Steve.

It looks like ATC did the right thing. Notified the Blackhawk (PAT25) of the jets coming in to land. The Blackhawk responds that they have traffic in sight, requests visual separation. Which means they take responsibility for avoiding the incoming jets.

A little while later, there's a 'conflict alert warning' as the Blackhawk and Bombardier CRJ700 get close. ATC asks PAT25 if they have the CRJ in sight, and to pass behind. PAT25 again responds that they have the aircraft in sight, requests visual separation. Captain Steve thinks it was an error by the Blackhawk pilots that they had visuals on the wrong jet.

 

[peetoo]

Investigation will determine that but it doesn't help when you cancel an FAA Advisory safety committee completely on inauguration that oversees stuff just like this.

They’ll be re engaged as advisors

 

[Anzacpaul]

They’ll be re engaged as advisors

Employed by Space x

 

[Chief]

They’ll be replaced by Project 2025 goons masquerading as advisors

EFA

 

[Zidane98]

Couple of updates -


Altitude of collision confirmed as 325ft. 200ft maximum for helicopters along the corridor.


It is believed the Blackhawk mistakenly identified another aircraft following AA5342 as it.


There was also a go around the previous day



In this instance the difference in altitudes was 900ft.

 

[Zidane98]

With the Potomac river such a heavily trafficked helicopter route for US government officials it seems the only way to guarantee separation is have helicopters hold until a gap in arrivals / departures before crossing approach paths etc.

Whether that is easy to implement is another question as DCA has the busiest single runway in the US (nearly 800 movements a day reportedly).

 

[schneebly111]

I dislike Trump as much as the next person with a brain but the roots of this accident go FAR beyond one president or even the Dems.

This is a cultural and structural issue with the United States and its aviation industry. They have been having multiple close calls and near collisions for years now. This is a consequence of many things, the lack of air traffic controllers, changes to pilot standards causing lower quality candidates to be employed, fast promotions meaning pilots don’t spend as much time learning their trade in the first officer’s seat before becoming Captain.

Aviation Infrastructure, like all US infrastructure, is outdated and not fit for purpose. Airports are congested and have horrible runway/taxiway interfaces making incursions more common. Plus the massive amount of military traffic and the deference to military aircraft in the ATC system.

And then the old “American exceptionalism” argument that gets in the way of logical thinking from other nations. As an example in the United States you need 1500hrs flying small aircraft before you are allowed to work as an airline pilot. This forces pilots to learn bad habits in aircraft that aren’t what they are going to be using when they fly jets. In Europe and most of the rest of the world pilots are specifically selected and trained to be airline pilots and work in teams. Whilst not saying that is a factor in this crash it’s just an example of how the US refuses to learn from the rest of the world and thinks their way is better.

People in aviation outside of the US have been predicted a major accident for some time now and have unfortunately been proven right.

Well the Potomac crash wouldn’t have happened in Europe or anywhere else for that matter. All this talk of “DEI” is just a distraction.

 

[Achy Blakey Heart]

With the Potomac river such a heavily trafficked helicopter route for US government officials it seems the only way to guarantee separation is have helicopters hold until a gap in arrivals / departures before crossing approach paths etc.

Whether that is easy to implement is another question as DCA has the busiest single runway in the US (nearly 800 movements a day reportedly).

Or they could do what commercial aircraft do and overfly the field at 3-8000ft directly over the top of the airport perpendicular to departures and arrivals, rather than crossing approach paths.

 

[Anzacpaul]

I dislike Trump as much as the next person with a brain but the roots of this accident go FAR beyond one president or even the Dems.

This is a cultural and structural issue with the United States and its aviation industry. They have been having multiple close calls and near collisions for years now. This is a consequence of many things, the lack of air traffic controllers, changes to pilot standards causing lower quality candidates to be employed, fast promotions meaning pilots don’t spend as much time learning their trade in the first officer’s seat before becoming Captain.

Aviation Infrastructure, like all US infrastructure, is outdated and not fit for purpose. Airports are congested and have horrible runway/taxiway interfaces making incursions more common. Plus the massive amount of military traffic and the deference to military aircraft in the ATC system.

And then the old “American exceptionalism” argument that gets in the way of logical thinking from other nations. As an example in the United States you need 1500hrs flying small aircraft before you are allowed to work as an airline pilot. This forces pilots to learn bad habits in aircraft that aren’t what they are going to be using when they fly jets. In Europe and most of the rest of the world pilots are specifically selected and trained to be airline pilots and work in teams. Whilst not saying that is a factor in this crash it’s just an example of how the US refuses to learn from the rest of the world and thinks their way is better.

People in aviation outside of the US have been predicted a major accident for some time now and have unfortunately been proven right.

Well the Potomac crash wouldn’t have happened in Europe or anywhere else for that matter. All this talk of “DEI” is just a distraction.

What, you mean the President of the United States of America was wrong when he said the crash was likely caused by DEI because he has "common sense"?

Don't come in here with your well thought out, correctly paragraphed walls of logic.