VAFA General Discussion 2019

[bedford]

I still can’t fathom what kind of person would want to play in the under 23s competition. Time for kids to grow up.

Certainly whispers of more VAFA clubs looking towards the NFNL. Be interesting if any are real

It's an excuse for the big clubs to have more people on the books . One thing that's doesn't make sense is Woman's teams playing under an Old Boys club.

 

[10571z]

It's an excuse for the big clubs to have more people on the books . One thing that's doesn't make sense is Woman's teams playing under an Old Boys club.

Haha yeah a bit weird SKOBS have a girls team

 

[SweatyJustice]

I still can’t fathom what kind of person would want to play in the under 23s competition. Time for kids to grow up.

Certainly whispers of more VAFA clubs looking towards the NFNL. Be interesting if any are real

I'll bite.

Which clubs are looking at the NFNL?

 

[Mappa]

Also, does clubbies have relegation/promotion or does same teams like Willi dominate year on year in lower sections?

Unfortunately this has been happening for years, in both the Clubbies and the Unders. Teams lobby the VAFA to put them in a lower grade because of "lack of numbers" or "our talent stocks have taken a real hit". Low and behold, a whole heap of players magically appear and they start dominating.

Our Unders bowed out to De La Salle's third Under 19 side in the Prelim in the bottom division in 2018. We beat Peninsula the week prior by two goals. Fair to say it was pretty even. In 2019, we were actually promoted because other clubs lower down were using those exact excuses I mentioned above, and De La Salle (despite making the GF in 2018) and Peninsula stayed in the bottom Div.

We won one game for the year, and that was against Brunswick, who were put down a division the week later and we didn't win another game for the year, finishing last. Brunswick went on to win 9 games for the year, De La Salle won 7 (and made the finals), and Peninsula won 13 and also made the finals. I don't envy the job the VAFA have having to select the divisions, because they'd have an encyclopedia of excuses from clubs, but some clubs have form when it comes to the old hard luck stories, and we were in an inappropriate division as a result.

Certainly whispers of more VAFA clubs looking towards the NFNL. Be interesting if any are real

Not many VAFA clubs around the area to go to the NFNL. Which one(s) are you referring to ?

 

[Mappa]

I'll bite.

Which clubs are looking at the NFNL?

I'd be keen to know too

 

[eth-dog]

Parade is based in Bundoora, and are a large school so perhaps the ability to pay former students will help?

 

[Gia77]

Any truth to whispers the vafa might combine the div 3 and 4 competitions into one larger division? Thus essentially eliminating a division.. A long shot and most likely false rumour but I've heard it whispered about in the lower grades as a discussion point

 

[Doug Hogan 23]

Honestly I hope they realise how ridiculous it is having the u/23's comp in the first place, and I hope they start capping private school teams from having 3 under 19's sides.

Why is it ridiculous? I think it's great that kids can run around and have a kick with their mates at that age, if they aren't good enough to play reserves should they not be able to play at all? There's also only two club's with three under 19 teams, what's the issue? Why can't those kids of obviously lesser ability play with their mates? They also wouldn't get a game at reserves level so they'd be lost to footy as well, your argument makes no sense.

 

[Doug Hogan 23]

It's an excuse for the big clubs to have more people on the books . One thing that's doesn't make sense is Woman's teams playing under an Old Boys club.

It's 2019 not 1958, maybe we shouldn't even let women into the lunches unless they're making them? Or the changerooms unless they're cleaning them? I see you don't have a girl's team, are women banned from Ormond Football Club?

 

[bedford]

It's 2019 not 1958, maybe we shouldn't even let women into the lunches unless they're making them? Or the changerooms unless they're cleaning them?

Couldn't give a rats , they're boys schools , not girls.

 

[eth-dog]

Why is it ridiculous? I think it's great that kids can run around and have a kick with their mates at that age, if they aren't good enough to play reserves should they not be able to play at all? There's also only two club's with three under 19 teams, what's the issue? Why can't those kids of obviously lesser ability play with their mates? They also wouldn't get a game at reserves level so they'd be lost to footy as well, your argument makes no sense.

There's a club a 15 minute walk away from yours in D1 that suffers because of this "oh if they didn't play here they wouldn't play at all" crap. Within 6 km of said club there are five A or B grade clubs with 12 under 19 sides between them, yet they can't get one? I'm sure if those boys who'd be "lost to footy" looked on a map they'd see there's this D1 club that would happily take them on.

 

[Bingle_21]

Is it right that women's clubs can only have 2 teams though? Seems a bit odd to restrict the women and not the men.

 

[workhorse]

Is it right that women's clubs can only have 2 teams though? Seems a bit odd to restrict the women and not the men.

That is correct. As far as I know West Brunswick have a Thirds women's team play in a non-official comp. Apparently the VAFA didn't want women's superclubs being formed and were telling clubs to push female players away and recommend them go to other clubs. Clubs where they would know no one

 

[10571z]

That is correct. As far as I know West Brunswick have a Thirds women's team play in a non-official comp. Apparently the VAFA didn't want women's superclubs being formed and were telling clubs to push female players away and recommend them go to other clubs. Clubs where they would know no one

Not really a terrible idea. There is no point 1 club having 3,4,5 teams and others zero.

The same should be with under 19s. 2 max

 

[workhorse]

Not really a terrible idea. There is no point 1 club having 3,4,5 teams and others zero.

The same should be with under 19s. 2 max

I don't disagree, however with women's footy in it's infancy I would've thought the VAFA would be more accommodating to new players

 

[eth-dog]

That is correct. As far as I know West Brunswick have a Thirds women's team play in a non-official comp. Apparently the VAFA didn't want women's superclubs being formed and were telling clubs to push female players away and recommend them go to other clubs. Clubs where they would know no one

Them and SMS are in it.

 

[Doug Hogan 23]

There's a club a 15 minute walk away from yours in D1 that suffers because of this "oh if they didn't play here they wouldn't play at all" crap. Within 6 km of said club there are five A or B grade clubs with 12 under 19 sides between them, yet they can't get one? I'm sure if those boys who'd be "lost to footy" looked on a map they'd see there's this D1 club that would happily take them on.

That club is already full of SKOB players if you do your research, considering they're meant to be aligned with Salesian that's not really fair on the Salesian Old Boys. Further more, WTF would boys want to go to another club? To do the noble thing? Give me a break.

 

[eth-dog]

That club is already full of SKOB players if you do your research, considering they're meant to be aligned with Salesian that's not really fair on the Salesian Old Boys. Further more, WTF would boys want to go to another club? To do the noble thing? Give me a break.

Said club has very little involvement with Salesian, a school about half the size at best of your club's school, probably closer to a third. And I'm well aware of the various schools said club has including St. Kevins but don't give me the bullshit of "these players would be lost to football" if the VAFA capped SKOB and De La to only having two under 19's if "they only want to play with mates". If that were true and you were capped they'd find somewhere else to play, end of story.

 

[bedford]

Said club has very little involvement with Salesian, a school about half the size at best of your club's school, probably closer to a third. And I'm well aware of the various schools said club has including St. Kevins but don't give me the bulls**t of "these players would be lost to football" if the VAFA capped SKOB and De La to only having two under 19's if "they only want to play with mates". If that were true and you were capped they'd find somewhere else to play, end of story.

Correct

 

[Jimmyjack]

Said club has very little involvement with Salesian, a school about half the size at best of your club's school, probably closer to a third. And I'm well aware of the various schools said club has including St. Kevins but don't give me the bulls**t of "these players would be lost to football" if the VAFA capped SKOB and De La to only having two under 19's if "they only want to play with mates". If that were true and you were capped they'd find somewhere else to play, end of story.

SMS also full of ex DLS players and students and they do very well from the surrounding private schools – in fact it probably sustains them as a club. Only a few years back they had 2 x U19 teams. Things ebb and flow and I don’t recall SMS ever complaining about their lot. I am sure when they had multiple underage teams they did give a moment’s thought to the plight of other nearby clubs.

And just an FYI - Salesian has about the same student numbers as De La Salle. And yes they are smaller than St Kevins, Xavier etc but certainly not half the size so probaly best to do some research before throwing out lines like that.

I like SMS as a club – a stack of past DLS players there but the lack of engagement by Salesian students is due to the fact they play on school sized dog track and the Salesian catchment is Oakleigh, Mt Waverley and other suburbs some distance from Glen Iris. There are better and closer options.

Re the U23s. I don’t have a strong view either way but the whole Thirds concept needs a shake up. Our 3rds had six forfeits this year. At one stage they went 7 weeks with two games. Hard to keep players engaged when that happens. An absolute joke and they need to sort this out.

Likewise I don't have particularly strong view on whether we cap or don’t cap the number of U19 teams. But you also need to understand that there are other matters at play here. Our (DLS) 3rd U19 team is essentially an U18 team. The local junior U17 Sunday comp is seriously on the nose and kids prefer to play Saturday VAFA rather than Sunday SMJFL. We are in the middle of SFL territory but that leagues U19 comp is a joke and nobody want to play in there. Also most of our kids come from junior clubs that don’t have a senior affiliate (Ashburton, Glen Iris, Camberwell Sharks, St Peters etc). So any inference that it is just a matter of school-based clubs pinching kids from other VAFA clubs is wrong and does not take into account all the other facts.

 

[eth-dog]

Correct

Jeez, even got Bedders agreeing with me.

SMS also full of ex DLS players and students and they do very well from the surrounding private schools – in fact it probably sustains them as a club. Only a few years back they had 2 x U19 teams. Things ebb and flow and I don’t recall SMS ever complaining about their lot. I am sure when they had multiple underage teams they did give a moment’s thought to the plight of other nearby clubs.

And just an FYI - Salesian has about the same student numbers as De La Salle. And yes they are smaller than St Kevins, Xavier etc but certainly not half the size so probaly best to do some research before throwing out lines like that.

I like SMS as a club – a stack of past DLS players there but the lack of engagement by Salesian students is due to the fact they play on school sized dog track and the Salesian catchment is Oakleigh, Mt Waverley and other suburbs some distance from Glen Iris. There are better and closer options.

Re the U23s. I don’t have a strong view either way but the whole Thirds concept needs a shake up. Our 3rds had six forfeits this year. At one stage they went 7 weeks with two games. Hard to keep players engaged when that happens. An absolute joke and they need to sort this out.

Likewise I don't have particularly strong view on whether we cap or don’t cap the number of U19 teams. But you also need to understand that there are other matters at play here. Our (DLS) 3rd U19 team is essentially an U18 team. The local junior U17 Sunday comp is seriously on the nose and kids prefer to play Saturday VAFA rather than Sunday SMJFL. We are in the middle of SFL territory but that leagues U19 comp is a joke and nobody want to play in there. Also most of our kids come from junior clubs that don’t have a senior affiliate (Ashburton, Glen Iris, Camberwell Sharks, St Peters etc). So any inference that it is just a matter of school-based clubs pinching kids from other VAFA clubs is wrong and does not take into account all the other facts.

Being a former De La boy myself I know how many we have from there. And Salesian as a school is a little bit smaller than De La, I know this as well. Both are significantly smaller than St Kevins.

The lack of engagement is due to them being in Chadstone and us Glen Iris, hell, our captain is a teacher there and we can't get anyone from Salesian to come down.

Stack of past DLS? We've had 6 former students play this year, one of which was chopping out our 3rds for one game, another who went back to them halfway through the year, as well as one who didn't attend De La but played for them but moved for more senior opportunities a few years ago. So in reality we've had 4 play the entire year, two of which are the sons of the games record holder at the club, I wonder how we got them...

Yeah it's very annoying when you expect a game but don't get one. I agree on that point at the very least.

I'm not saying it's school based clubs pinching other players. I just think having 3 under 19's sides for one club is too many

 

[workhorse]

Re the U23s. I don’t have a strong view either way but the whole Thirds concept needs a shake up. Our 3rds had six forfeits this year. At one stage they went 7 weeks with two games. Hard to keep players engaged when that happens. An absolute joke and they need to sort this out.

I may be wrong but wasn't part of the reason for the introduction of the U23 was to avoid farcical situations like the Premier Thirds GF in 2016 where Old Xavs faced of against.....Old Xavs? So in essence big clubs could further split their surplus of players who aren't good enough for Seniors/Reserves and too old for U19s without having them have to play against each other. Personally I don't really know where I sit, certainly no easy solution.

 

[JezzasOnTheAsphalt]

Couldn't give a rats , they're boys schools , not girls.

Found it a bit of an oddity at first also but don't really see the need to come out against old boy clubs having womens teams if they have the resources to do so. How many school clubs actually have it as a rule that you need to have been a student to play there? Plus with the severe lack of VAFA 'old girl' clubs we would be basically forcing girls who want to play to a select group of clubs going along that line of thinking

 

[bedford]

Because they are so big they have the resources to handle it , the trouble is it's getting like the EPL.

 

[JezzasOnTheAsphalt]

Because they are so big they have the resources to handle it , the trouble is it's getting like the EPL.

If it's about bridging that gap then more the pressing issue would be addressing the blokes who don't attend the school but play at the club rather than the ladies.