VAFA General Discussion 2019

[Gun Island]

There is no real future for many clubs that feel the VAFA is set up for the top end of school and Uni sides . Clubs need to be restricted , 2 19’s teams maximum for starters.


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[Over The Post]

Here we go (yet) again. VAFA umpires are paid more than in most other leagues, there's no need to offer more coin (sorry Pazza!). I've umpired with nuffies who did it purely for the cash and had no interest in the game. You do not want them appointed to your matches! There just simply are not enough people willing to put their hand up and do the job, but no shortage of moaners happy to blame the administration as illustrated above.

So, 10571z, when are you going to have a go? Kill two birds with one stone - reduce the shortage of umpires and earn some extra tax-free!

 

[eth-dog]

There is no real future for many clubs that feel the VAFA is set up for the top end of school and Uni sides . Clubs need to be restricted , 2 19’s teams maximum for starters.


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Yep. My club is in a 10 km radius of De La, SKOB, Scotch and Xavs, who have 10 U19's between them, yet we can't get one.

 

[adhoc]

Here we go (yet) again. VAFA umpires are paid more than in most other leagues, there's no need to offer more coin (sorry Pazza!). I've umpired with nuffies who did it purely for the cash and had no interest in the game. You do not want them appointed to your matches! There just simply are not enough people willing to put their hand up and do the job, but no shortage of moaners happy to blame the administration as illustrated above.

So, 10571z, when are you going to have a go? Kill two birds with one stone - reduce the shortage of umpires and earn some extra tax-free!

You are correct in saying that increasing funds to bring in umpires wont improve when the quality is only good in A-C. But from D-1-4 I remember majority of umps are too old and have no grasp of the game. Are these blokes tested on the rules.

I was watching SFL game Saturday, in the stands having a beer and the crowds were significantly bigger than D1 Ammos (from a few years back)
The umps that day were great, and seemed to know what they were doing and hung around for a beer.

 

[Blood Stained Angels]

You are correct in saying that increasing funds to bring in umpires wont improve when the quality is only good in A-C. But from D-1-4 I remember majority of umps are too old and have no grasp of the game. Are these blokes tested on the rules.

I was watching SFL game Saturday, in the stands having a beer and the crowds were significantly bigger than D1 Ammos (from a few years back)
The umps that day were great, and seemed to know what they were doing and hung around for a beer.

As a keen observer of all things umpiring, I can tell you that the SFNL umpires are moving on in leaps and bounds. Strong administration, strong appointments officer, strong leadership and above all, very strong numbers with over 120 at training last week. Also had to cap the number of goal umpires due to numbers going through the roof.

 

[AM]

As a keen observer of all things umpiring, I can tell you that the SFNL umpires are moving on in leaps and bounds. Strong administration, strong appointments officer, strong leadership and above all, very strong numbers with over 120 at training last week. Also had to cap the number of goal umpires due to numbers going through the roof.

It that's true why do they fill their goalie roster with umpires doing 2, and sometimes 3, games and there are a number in their 50s and 60s still waving the calicos?

You are correct in saying that increasing funds to bring in umpires wont improve when the quality is only good in A-C. But from D-1-4 I remember majority of umps are too old and have no grasp of the game. Are these blokes tested on the rules.

I was watching SFL game Saturday, in the stands having a beer and the crowds were significantly bigger than D1 Ammos (from a few years back)
The umps that day were great, and seemed to know what they were doing and hung around for a beer.

On a day when the top 3 divisions of the major rival community competition were not playing it would be a poor show if the spectator numbers weren't higher. I compare crowd numbers to our top 3 divisions and the games I've seen the crowds at SFLNL were no better than most VAFA games and significantly lower than the top games.

Re umpiring. The VAFA look after the umpiring fraternity as well as any community competition and better than most. The major VAFA expenditure line item is spending on the umpiring division and by a margin. The facilities are superior. The numbers of support staff have increased almost on an annual basis and the tax free pay is comparatively very good. The VAFA also does its best to minimise the travel these days. Perhaps reasons why 2 of the SFLNL competition Directors of Umpiring are now part of the VAFA umpring outfit.

While the SFLNL and the Peninsula comps generally fill their rosters they are smaller competitions teams wise and many of the goal umpires do 2 and sometimes 3 games.

The central issue that makes umpiring unappealing in my view are the insults and often abuse they are subjected to regularly by the great unwashed. Not sure how many of us would find it appealing going to our place of work in the knowledge we were more than likely going to be subjected to verbal attacks often by people who wouldn't know their arse from their elbow when it comes to the rules. Possibly the reason the retention rate in so many community competitions is poor.

Agree with those who suggest the affiliation fees are too high. If those at HQ wanted to readily assist clubs facing financial issues, lowering affiliation fees would be a pragmatic action to take.

Phew!

 

[Captain chaos]

It that's true why do they fill their goalie roster with umpires doing 2, and sometimes 3, games and there are a number in their 50s and 60s still waving the calicos?

On a day when the top 3 divisions of the major rival community competition were not playing it would be a poor show if the spectator numbers weren't higher. I compare crowd numbers to our top 3 divisions and the games I've seen the crowds at SFLNL were no better than most VAFA games and significantly lower than the top games.

Re umpiring. The VAFA look after the umpiring fraternity as well as any community competition and better than most. The major VAFA expenditure line item is spending on the umpiring division and by a margin. The facilities are superior. The numbers of support staff have increased almost on an annual basis and the tax free pay is comparatively very good. The VAFA also does its best to minimise the travel these days. Perhaps reasons why 2 of the SFLNL competition Directors of Umpiring are now part of the VAFA umpring outfit.

While the SFLNL and the Peninsula comps generally fill their rosters they are smaller competitions teams wise and many of the goal umpires do 2 and sometimes 3 games.

The central issue that makes umpiring unappealing in my view are the insults and often abuse they are subjected to regularly by the great unwashed. Not sure how many of us would find it appealing going to our place of work in the knowledge we were more than likely going to be subjected to verbal attacks often by people who wouldn't know their arse from their elbow when it comes to the rules. Possibly the reason the retention rate in so many community competitions is poor.

Agree with those who suggest the affiliation fees are too high. If those at HQ wanted to readily assist clubs facing financial issues, lowering affiliation fees would be a pragmatic action to take.

Phew!

Those Affiliation fees fund the trips to Perth for the 5 VAFA staff and others hangers on for a game very few care about .

 

[pazza]

Point of difference? Dont other leagues have it? Do the vafa play themselves?

Oh dear. Playing AFL Vic Country, Adelaide FL, Perth FL, AFL Goldfields - that's a lot of opportunity. And if you talk those in AFL and AFLW circles, those matches actually have recruiters for them in attendance - still think it doesn't matter? Look at the number of Amateur graduates in AFL, AFLW, VFL, VFLW clubs. Not to mention how the VAFA has become the standard setter for umpires coming through the system and getting rep opportunities as part of that.

I note the comment about umpiring. How many 1 umpire games are there these days? Not a lot. Used to be the case where there was a quite a lot each week. It's getting better.

 

[les argen]

There is no real future for many clubs that feel the VAFA is set up for the top end of school and Uni sides . Clubs need to be restricted , 2 19’s teams maximum for starters.


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Good news that the comp is set up for Uni sides. I’ll let all the hard workers at my club know this so they can ease off....

 

[10571z]

Here we go (yet) again. VAFA umpires are paid more than in most other leagues, there's no need to offer more coin (sorry Pazza!). I've umpired with nuffies who did it purely for the cash and had no interest in the game. You do not want them appointed to your matches! There just simply are not enough people willing to put their hand up and do the job, but no shortage of moaners happy to blame the administration as illustrated above.

So, 10571z, when are you going to have a go? Kill two birds with one stone - reduce the shortage of umpires and earn some extra tax-free!

So are you trying to say Divison 1-4 clubs are better off supplying their own Boundary, Goal (in both grades) and Reserves umpires than having people who only do it for the money? Sorry but I cant disagree more.

The NFNL for example i attend supply umpires in all three divisions in every role. The VAFA side i follow in d1 rarely has boundary/goal in the seniors and never any umpires full stop in the reserves.

Its just not good enough and puts a huge strain on clubs.

Whats the umpire allocation like in A B C

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

In a previous life I used to be a senior field umpire in the esssendon league and having recently moved bayside I have been watching a mix of the local clubs in both VAFA & SFNL, and can comfortably say the standard of umpiring in the SFNL is extremely poor whilst the matches I have seen in B Grade were of quite a good standard of umpiring. So at the top levels I think the VAFA is doing quite well.

With regards to numbers v quality at the lower levels, the key is to keep the experienced umpires involved once fitness, family, work commitments mean they can no longer commit to the training and time commitments required to umpire at the premier level. In all comps too many of these umpires are lost, having previously been young, keen and striving to umpire at the top level but then life gets in the way so they retire rather than drop back grades. Additionally some coaches are too keen to fastrack younger prodigies at the expense of the experienced umpires.

If you factor in training commitments 2 nights a week, and then 6 hours on a Saturday which includes travel, pre match and post match and then recovery on a Sunday the $150 an umpire gets would be considered slave labour. I have never met a good umpire that umpires for cash. $ is usually the incentive that attracts the kids to get involved in the first place but certainly not the reason you stick at it as most kids could earn more at a shift at woolies on the weekend.

 

[bedford]

Good news that the comp is set up for Uni sides. I’ll let all the hard workers at my club know this so they can ease off....

He has a point and I don't think people put Monash in the same basket as the black and blues. You don't have multiple AFL players Les.

 

[Opinions are not facts]

In a previous life I used to be a senior field umpire in the esssendon league and having recently moved bayside I have been watching a mix of the local clubs in both VAFA & SFNL, and can comfortably say the standard of umpiring in the SFNL is extremely poor whilst the matches I have seen in B Grade were of quite a good standard of umpiring. So at the top levels I think the VAFA is doing quite well.

With regards to numbers v quality at the lower levels, the key is to keep the experienced umpires involved once fitness, family, work commitments mean they can no longer commit to the training and time commitments required to umpire at the premier level. In all comps too many of these umpires are lost, having previously been young, keen and striving to umpire at the top level but then life gets in the way so they retire rather than drop back grades. Additionally some coaches are too keen to fastrack younger prodigies at the expense of the experienced umpires.

If you factor in training commitments 2 nights a week, and then 6 hours on a Saturday which includes travel, pre match and post match and then recovery on a Sunday the $150 an umpire gets would be considered slave labour. I have never met a good umpire that umpires for cash. $ is usually the incentive that attracts the kids to get involved in the first place but certainly not the reason you stick at it as most kids could earn more at a shift at woolies on the weekend.

I agree with those views

 

[adhoc]

Those Affiliation fees fund the trips to Perth for the 5 VAFA staff and others hangers on for a game very few care about .

Where can I get one of these jackets/coats? must be at least $200 worth

 

[Blood Stained Angels]

Those Affiliation fees fund the trips to Perth for the 5 VAFA staff and others hangers on for a game very few care about .

Refer to AM Statement below.
It that's true why do they fill their goalie roster with umpires doing 2, and sometimes 3, games and there are a number in their 50s and 60s still waving the calicos?

Are you serious ? Not every umpire is available each week for various reasons, just like players. What has age got to do with waving the calicos ? Some of these senior umpires are also undertaking mentoring roles with the younger umpires so your point is irrelevant.
I've seen plenty of ammos games this season and the standard of umpiring across the board has significantly dropped, just ask the players if you don't believe me.

 

[Captain chaos]

He has a point and I don't think people put Monash in the same basket as the black and blues. You don't have multiple AFL players Les.

Do blacks have multiple AFL players?

 

[AM]

Are you serious ? Not every umpire is available each week for various reasons, just like players. What has age got to do with waving the calicos ? Some of these senior umpires are also undertaking mentoring roles with the younger umpires so your point is irrelevant.
I've seen plenty of ammos games this season and the standard of umpiring across the board has significantly dropped, just ask the players if you don't believe me.

Which is all the more reason why an umpiring body would not turn away prospective goal umpires as you said they did. That aside it would be negligent to do so as a couple of your umpiring movers-n-shakers suggested me before I went to press.

I have no issues with goal umpires in their 60s and 70s - in two cases I think - waving the calicos but if there was a surfeit of goalies I'd suggest they would be the ones to make way for the up-n-comers. Also, while it's true there are one or two seasoned goalies used in mentoring roles - one a coach too - there are a number of older goalies who fill the roster and who have no mentoring role.

The SFLNL umpires have utilised goalies in 2 and 3 games since Adam was a child. It's nothing new and if your assertion they turned away young prospects was accurate you'd wonder why as they have plenty of wriggle room in the roster to fit them in.

If we are talking about the 3 top grades in the VAFA and the equivalent in the SFL, there's no comparison. You only have to see how many VAFA umps go on to the elite level compared to your lot. Think you'd find the two former SFL coaching directors in Tony Hales and the redoubtable Peter Marshall who now form an important part of the VAFA coaching set-up would be in my corner on that one.

I will say the standard does fall away in the lower grades.

 

[10571z]

I love this talk of umpire quality.

They literally don’t supply umpires to over 70% of games and people on here are worried about “quality and passion”

Laughable.

 

[AM]

I love this talk of umpire quality.

They literally don’t supply umpires to over 70% of games and people on here are worried about “quality and passion”

Laughable.

I've said my piece about the lack of umpire coverage on many occasions before. To repeat, I think it's lamentable that the VAFA rips out of clubs sizeable affiliation fees yet fails to provide a full roster in all divisions. If they were fair dinkum they'd refund part of the affiliation fees when they fail to fulfil their part of the bargain.

That said, to not also be concerned about quality is, to use your word, 'laughable'. Some of us can walk and chew at the same time.

 

[AM]

There are a lot of ill-informed coments about VAFA umpiring above so i thought id take the time to pen some facts. And the shortage has been amplified by the introduction of the female teams.

So some facts

1. VAFA has more than 200 more reg field umpires than any other comp. Thats good
2. VAFA spends about $750k per year on umpires and its not enough. Thats bad. Not enough and more coaching is required.
3. The VFL took the best 6 umpires from last year but didnt give VAFA replacements
4. Despite recruiting, they are about 100 fields short each week. Which means a lot have to double up or even triple up. how do you think you would play in your 3rd game on the weekend?
5. On the last full weekend they were short approx 100 umpires.
6. Have a look at the financials and see what they are spending increased affiliation fees on. Its not umpires or umpire coaches. $500 on the building. $85 on scoreboard. etc

So if you want to winge, put your hand up to be an umpire, stop abusing them, get trained, and start yelling at VAFA HQ to spend more on the one thing we cant do without - Umpires.

PS i am not an umpire, i just have a mate who is, and he is pi**ed off at this sort of comentary.
PPS This is all about field, not goal or boundary, and OverthePost is a great dude.

Howdy amofootyfan. Insofar as my contribution to this discussion goes I wonder if you'd care to ask your mate which part/s of my contribution are ill informed.

Just to help you with a brief rewind:

The most significant recurrent expenditure item is directed to umpiring and has been the case for ages. No criticism of that. The full recent financial statements of the VAFA aren't easy to locate btw.

Affiliation fees are high and the major benefit the clubs get from the fees is the provision of umpires and the lower grades rarely get a full roster. In my view the VAFA is not fulfilling their part of the bargain in this important respect and they should offer some financial recompense to those clubs frequently adversely affected in this way. I fully appreciate the umpire roster challenge as it's a large diverse league.

My other remarks generally related to the standard of umpiring and that there is a marked drop-off below the premier sections. My observation but I'd suggest I have many who would agree.

The added bits-n-pieces in your post were interesting but not something I'd commented upon.

Whinge? Well I guess that's in the eye of the beholder. As someone interested in umpiring and all that goes with it you might ask your mate how he/she would redress the current state of affairs.

OTP is alright in small doses I guess.

 

[Captain chaos]

Do we need a separate umpiring thread?

Zzzxx

 

[bedford]

Do we need a separate umpiring thread?

Zzzxx

There is

 

[Over The Post]

Umpiring aficionados do not want their thread sullied by discussions of budgeting and affiliation fees and sucking-up-to/dissing ex goalies. This is, after all, general discussion. Keep snoozing, Chaos.

 

[Captain chaos]

There is

Do blacks have multiple afl players?

 

[10571z]

People complain about the best umpires in the country (The AFL’s).

An arm chair opinion has low credibility comparing umpiring from any league to the vafa really means little. You could see the best and worst days of each.

The biggest concern is the 2 hour course required to become a umpire in the reserves. Many simply can’t control games. But they are free for the VAFA so that’s the main bonus.