VAFA General Discussion 2022-2023-2024

[Chief]

Hi all.

Aucklander and I have had a couple of runs through recent posts in this thread and removed a few unsavoury comments.

The usual griping and gossip is par for the course, but some posts go overboard.

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[Seemyhat]

Further to my last, and with a little more information. I don't think anything will change because it's too hard!

Hand Grenade House could certainly organise an honest revamp of the competition, albeit only a few games in. Perhaps teams with excessive percentages could all be elevated into Division 1, keep the strugglers together in Division 4 and the 'middle of the roaders' in Divisions 2 + 3.

There are 6 teams with excessive percentages of 400%+ sitting atop their respective ladders. Could place them all into the top division.

Divisions 1 and 4 to have 6 teams each; Divisions 2 + 3 to have 8 teams each.
I understand that this scenario isn’t perfect; neither are we, but: -
Just thinking.

Perhaps: -

Division 1

AJAX Div 3 466%
Hampton Rovers Div 3 418%
Old Brighton Div 1 322%
Old Scotch Div 1 466%
Parkdale Vultures Div 4 522%
Whitefriars Div 1 346%

Division 2

Glen Eira Div 3 183%
Hawthorn Div 2 197%
La Trobe Div 2 196%
O Haileybury Div 1 186%
O Melburnians Div 1 99%
Old Mentonians Div 2 53%
RMIT Uni Div 2 85%
Williamstown Div 1 58%


Division 3

Albert Park Div 4 178%
Bulleen Temp Div 3 145%
DLS Div 4 169%
MCC Div 4 198%
Oakleigh Div 3 103%
Power House Div 3 42%
RMIT Uni Div 2 96%
Swinburne Div 4 48%

Division 4

Canterbury Div 2 30%
Elsternwick Div 4 17%
Emaeus St Leo Div 3 3%
Parkside Div 4 26%
Preston Div 2 15%
S Melbourne Dist Div 3 35%

This is brilliant. 7 teams in Div 4 would have a much better opportunity to register a win and enjoy themselves.

 

[RednWhite]

Thanks , that's what i was meaning and i know some would take it the wrong way . Surely there are enough funds for a operations manager and a female recruitment person. To be fair the popularity of girls footy has exploded so quick .

Enough funds. Maybe in the rich grammar school bank accounts.

 

[Original Moody Blue]

Brethren

I'd like to open the discussion about how well the clubs are managed by the VAFA? Value for money etc. Want to run this by you. Five rounds gone in all sections. Highlight: Women's Div 1 to Div 4.

Teams in

Div 1 6
Div 2 7 [5 byes so far]
Div 3 8
Div 4 7 [5 byes so far]

I believe even those that dropped out of Old Xaverians Kindergarten could have organised it better. 28 teams 2 x 8 + 2 x 6. Women's clubs have been screaming at S & M to rectify the imbalance since day one. Well today we were notified that yes the penny has dropped and we will be accommodated - drop one team from D 2 to D3 and one team with a percentage of 4 [yes been a lovely first 5 games] to D 4 eliminating the byes.

Brilliant work by the sub committee and head of football operations. Women have short seasons but this unnecessary incompetence have robbed 10 teams of a game. Taken 5 weeks to organise. Do you think a team with a percentage of less than 5 should have missed the first grading cut?

Those 10 clubs should be putting in a claim for money back due to mismanagement!

Wonder does the CEO know that this is the ship he is steering?

Does the committee even know there is a Division 1-4? They are fixated on Premier and B Grade and the rest are there for turnover.
For the money the Ammo's charge you would expect more.

 

[Gia77]

Further to my last, and with a little more information. I don't think anything will change because it's too hard!

Hand Grenade House could certainly organise an honest revamp of the competition, albeit only a few games in. Perhaps teams with excessive percentages could all be elevated into Division 1, keep the strugglers together in Division 4 and the 'middle of the roaders' in Divisions 2 + 3.

There are 6 teams with excessive percentages of 400%+ sitting atop their respective ladders. Could place them all into the top division.

Divisions 1 and 4 to have 6 teams each; Divisions 2 + 3 to have 8 teams each.
I understand that this scenario isn’t perfect; neither are we, but: -
Just thinking.

Perhaps: -

Division 1

AJAX Div 3 466%
Hampton Rovers Div 3 418%
Old Brighton Div 1 322%
Old Scotch Div 1 466%
Parkdale Vultures Div 4 522%
Whitefriars Div 1 346%

Division 2

Glen Eira Div 3 183%
Hawthorn Div 2 197%
La Trobe Div 2 196%
O Haileybury Div 1 186%
O Melburnians Div 1 99%
Old Mentonians Div 2 53%
RMIT Uni Div 2 85%
Williamstown Div 1 58%


Division 3

Albert Park Div 4 178%
Bulleen Temp Div 3 145%
DLS Div 4 169%
MCC Div 4 198%
Oakleigh Div 3 103%
Power House Div 3 42%
RMIT Uni Div 2 96%
Swinburne Div 4 48%

Division 4

Canterbury Div 2 30%
Elsternwick Div 4 17%
Emaeus St Leo Div 3 3%
Parkside Div 4 26%
Preston Div 2 15%
S Melbourne Dist Div 3 35%

What about teams such as Westbourne, North Brunswick, Eley Park, Box Hill?! Am I missing something here?

I called for a change in divisions earlier in the pre-season but presumed it would be put in the too hard basket.

 

[eth-dog]

What about teams such as Westbourne, North Brunswick, Eley Park, Box Hill?! Am I missing something here?

I called for a change in divisions earlier in the pre-season but presumed it would be put in the too hard basket.

He's talking about the womens

 

[Gia77]

He's talking about the womens

Makes sense now thanks

 

[adhoc]

I knew you'd comeback with that . Nothing to do with sex . I'm all for girls footy and support it , so tell me why can't they run their own and i know who the drop kick might be !

I know some coaches in VAFA that couldn’t give two hoots about women’s footy. I do not understand why any of the women’s games need 2 field umpires, I’ve done a game and will never do another! It’s same as say u11/12 boys where you only need 1 ump! This will alleviate lack of umps running 2 games in a day across all comps not just VAFA. I had chat with a Pres who said 1 girl bit an opponent and they were scared to raise it with opposing club due to backlash/sexism.
in stead of walking on eggshells, put all cards on table and say it’s the way it is!

 

[adhoc]

Unfortunately it seems to be a regular occurrence, surely the pay could be done on a Wednesday each week.

Arks the overlords about the bank balance for umpires. Should be no reason for umps to have pays delayed and I’m with you, why can’t all comps pay weekly? Being part of a ammo club years ago, cash handed over to ressies umps after each game!

 

[TheArmy]

Whilst not unexpected that people have taken your comments the wrong way in the current climate, fact is it’s a fair point that the women’s comp has grown now to the level it should have its own staff. It doesn’t have to be separate from the VAFA but a women’s competition football operations manager would at the very least make a lot of sense.

VAFA had a women's Football director up until a couple of years back,

in past few years VAFA has lost
head of Womens football
&
Club development manager.

Head of women's footy went sideways t different role and we still have no club dev manager .

 

[zeroseven]

The overlord has spoken on the VAFA Editorial

On a brighter note, while our umpire numbers are improving slightly, it was great to hear of an instance last week where a former AFL player, now at a VAFA Club, provided direct encouragement to a female boundary umpire who was struggling to throw the ball in in blustery conditions. This “working together” approach is far more productive, rather than some who have taken it upon themselves to turn to social media to snipe at the VAFA’s umpire shortage and other Association matters – please remember, we are all in this together.

Well guess he is taking aim at BF!
Thought it was the timing that everyone was upset about with umpire shortage. If we are all in it together then let the clubs know FFS in a timely way. CEOs are paid and clubs are run by volunteers. The issue as I see it from not so far away is with the information dissemination from the CEO and staff. Ring or email and often you get evasion. Buck stops with the admin and the boss. Current VAFA epitomizes, "Policy on the run?"
Just a little sweetener for everyone? How easy [whoops I mean good] in 2021 that our umpires don't have to scan team sheets. Good for who? Clubs therefore can leave anyone on the team sheets or change them in any way they like. Smacks of a lack of accountability from top to bottom. Come finals times in the ressies, unders, thirds teams won't resemble the teams that actually played.

To be in it together requires open 2 way communication. The integrity of this is sadly missing currently.

 

[Over The Post]

" former AFL player, now at a VAFA Club, provided direct encouragement to a female boundary umpire who was struggling "

woop de doo

Countless times I've seen non-former-AFL-players providing direct encouragement to boundary umpires struggling with the conditions. Including telling the fieldies to bring them in 5m or more.

Why is this instance so ******* special?
Are we meant to be amazed that an ex-AFL player can be a Man of the People and not consider himself above giving a kind word to lowly umpires?
Are we meant to feel warm and fuzzy because VAFA has ex-AFL stars AND females running the boundary?
Or are we meant to absorb this as some sort of morality tale, where the He-Man Footballer of Impressive Stature white-knights the Hapless Maiden who Can't Chuck, and we should all look to this as a selfless act to which we should all aspire if we want to be Better People?

I, for one, welcome the pronouncement from our new overlords. Sniping will henceforth not be tolerated. Not that I've seen any lately, but perception is everything.

Instead feel free to politely and constructively bring up the Association's shortcomings affecting the competition and/or your club, so that it may be reported back to HQ in a more positive light, and be commented on favourably in the next editorial. Remember, we are all in this together!

 

[bedford]

" former AFL player, now at a VAFA Club, provided direct encouragement to a female boundary umpire who was struggling "

woop de doo

Countless times I've seen non-former-AFL-players providing direct encouragement to boundary umpires struggling with the conditions. Including telling the fieldies to bring them in 5m or more.

Why is this instance so ******* special?
Are we meant to be amazed that an ex-AFL player can be a Man of the People and not consider himself above giving a kind word to lowly umpires?
Are we meant to feel warm and fuzzy because VAFA has ex-AFL stars AND females running the boundary?
Or are we meant to absorb this as some sort of morality tale, where the He-Man Footballer of Impressive Stature white-knights the Hapless Maiden who Can't Chuck, and we should all look to this as a selfless act to which we should all aspire if we want to be Better People?

I, for one, welcome the pronouncement from our new overlords. Sniping will henceforth not be tolerated. Not that I've seen any lately, but perception is everything.

Instead feel free to politely and constructively bring up the Association's shortcomings affecting the competition and/or your club, so that it may be reported back to HQ in a more positive light, and be commented on favourably in the next editorial. Remember, we are all in this together!

I think it might have been Simon Buckley

 

[dalybray]

It is convenient to be "all in this together" when the blow torch has been shone on the ineptitude that takes place inside that office building and board room at Elsternwick Park...

 

[zeroseven]

Suggest all VAFA players and supporters read this article asap Just the tip of the iceberg - The admin/board take note or the winds of change will sweep through.

https://oldscotchfc.com.au/

 

[Navyblues09]

Suggest all VAFA players and supporters read this article asap Just the tip of the iceberg - The admin/board take note or the winds of change will sweep through.

https://oldscotchfc.com.au/

Whilst the article has some merit, it’s a little hard to take it seriously when it talks up the team who began this AFL recruiting spree as being successful due to homegrown talent...

 

[TheArmy]

The overlord has spoken on the VAFA Editorial

On a brighter note, while our umpire numbers are improving slightly, it was great to hear of an instance last week where a former AFL player, now at a VAFA Club, provided direct encouragement to a female boundary umpire who was struggling to throw the ball in in blustery conditions. This “working together” approach is far more productive, rather than some who have taken it upon themselves to turn to social media to snipe at the VAFA’s umpire shortage and other Association matters – please remember, we are all in this together.

Well guess he is taking aim at BF!
Thought it was the timing that everyone was upset about with umpire shortage. If we are all in it together then let the clubs know FFS in a timely way. CEOs are paid and clubs are run by volunteers. The issue as I see it from not so far away is with the information dissemination from the CEO and staff. Ring or email and often you get evasion. Buck stops with the admin and the boss. Current VAFA epitomizes, "Policy on the run?"
Just a little sweetener for everyone? How easy [whoops I mean good] in 2021 that our umpires don't have to scan team sheets. Good for who? Clubs therefore can leave anyone on the team sheets or change them in any way they like. Smacks of a lack of accountability from top to bottom. Come finals times in the ressies, unders, thirds teams won't resemble the teams that actually played.

To be in it together requires open 2 way communication. The integrity of this is sadly missing currently.

these team sheet changers got sold as "good for umpires" really it saves HQ time and money as they don't need to pay someone or spend time processing it all on the back end after umps scan them in.. Policy made but staff (in some cases) have little understanding of the job they hold OR even worse zero understanding of how the sport and it's clubs actually function in a day to day way.

Board needs to go as to does SOME (not all of the staff)

 

[Glorious One]

Suggest all VAFA players and supporters read this article asap Just the tip of the iceberg - The admin/board take note or the winds of change will sweep through.

https://oldscotchfc.com.au/

Great letter Mr Tim Shearer, well done. I like how you waited for a win to post it. The sceptic in me could think that Old Scotch not winning anything of note since 1978 and now realising how far away they are from any new silverware could be seen as the major motivator behind your article, but that’s for others to decide.

Expect the great hypocrite, one Richard Evans, to follow suit and lift the agitation level a few notches.

Some observations:

-Tim may want to stop recruiting players from the VFL who are not Old Scotch players. OS have consistently played at least 5 non aligned VFL recruits most weeks this year. Maybe they need to recruit better quality ones?

-Tim may want to stop using the Camberwell Sharks as his recruiting ground and then passing them off as Scotch boys for 1 point each.

-Tim should remember that his club happily took players from other private schools like Camberwell Grammar, Xavier, Trinity, Carey and Skevs, to those old boys clubs detriment, for many years.

-AFL Victoria makes the rules, we all follow suit or lose a heap of funding.

-I agree the points are way too high.

-The premier in premier section should perhaps be handicapped 15% for the following season ie Blues should be capped at 38 this year.

-Ex AFL players who played for their school team, junior club or senior club should always be 1 point players. The current Uni allowance is a joke and insult to all other VAFA clubs. If it stays this way, why can’t an ex AFL player from a catholic school be a one pointer for another catholic old boys club? Stupid but no more stupid for the current Melbourne Uni(s) affiliation rules.

-If I am an employer and I employ an ex AFL player who decides he would like to have a kick at my old footy team, eg Elsternwick, why should that be seen as an inducement? How far do you go? A young kid mows the coaches lawn one weekend for $30 whilst studying, is that an inducement?

-Should there be a points cap in an Amateur competition?

-Is it important where a player has played previously?

-Should there be a yearly cap of the amount of ex AFL players allowed to be registered with one club for the following year?

-And the best one, and perhaps the most pertinent one………
Why are all players two points less in 2021 than they were in 2019 when we didn’t play at all in 2020?
Who made that ham fisted decision? How about they acknowledge the mistake today that they got it wrong and simply make the adjustment and add 1 point to each affected player? Immediately? From this weekend onwards?

-Uni Blues are flogs but are in the process of destroying their club so it’s a joy to watch from afar.

 

[Jimmyjack]

Suggest all VAFA players and supporters read this article asap Just the tip of the iceberg - The admin/board take note or the winds of change will sweep through.

https://oldscotchfc.com.au/

Great article. Well written and I think that most would be in furious agreement. However the hypocrisy is stunning as about a decade ago Scotch were one of the first clubs, if not the first club to turn Premier into an arms race. They are now complaining because other clubs did it better. As the Glorious Brian Hogan so correctly articulated, they were very happy to recruit players from other VAFA clubs. In fact they still do and plucked a talented young kid from my club this year on the promise of a VFL pathway. All is fair in love and war and football but if you are going to pot other clubs and publish such an emotive article then best be squeaky clean yourself.

On another note, a bit rich for a big, cashed up, prestigious all boys APS school based in a blue blood suburb to roll out the “it’s unfair” line. Try competing as a small ACC school or district club, particularly if you don’t have a direct junior feeder. My club has hung in for a long time but I cannot realistically see a time when we will ever again be competitive in ‘A’ grade. Likewise St Bedes, Trinity and St Bernards have flown the flag as non-APS/Melbourne Uni clubs competing at the pointy end but every chance that by 2022 the last of these will be gone as well. That’s not a complaint. We all find our level but the reality is that Premier will become an extension of the APS competition with one or two Melbourne Uni clubs thrown in for good measure. If you don’t believe me have a look at the B grade ladder – Old Haileybury (who have finally got their act together) and Uni Blacks are 1 and 2.

So it is great that the Scotch President has raised these issues now but perhaps he should reflect on the fact they his club was and still is part of the problem.

 

[TheArmy]

Great letter Mr Tim Shearer, well done. I like how you waited for a win to post it. The sceptic in me could think that Old Scotch not winning anything of note since 1978 and now realising how far away they are from any new silverware could be seen as the major motivator behind your article, but that’s for others to decide.

Expect the great hypocrite, one Richard Evans, to follow suit and lift the agitation level a few notches.

Some observations:

-Tim may want to stop recruiting players from the VFL who are not Old Scotch players. OS have consistently played at least 5 non aligned VFL recruits most weeks this year. Maybe they need to recruit better quality ones?

-Tim may want to stop using the Camberwell Sharks as his recruiting ground and then passing them off as Scotch boys for 1 point each.

-Tim should remember that his club happily took players from other private schools like Camberwell Grammar, Xavier, Trinity, Carey and Skevs, to those old boys clubs detriment, for many years.

-AFL Victoria makes the rules, we all follow suit or lose a heap of funding.

-I agree the points are way too high.

-The premier in premier section should perhaps be handicapped 15% for the following season ie Blues should be capped at 38 this year.

-Ex AFL players who played for their school team, junior club or senior club should always be 1 point players. The current Uni allowance is a joke and insult to all other VAFA clubs. If it stays this way, why can’t an ex AFL player from a catholic school be a one pointer for another catholic old boys club? Stupid but no more stupid for the current Melbourne Uni(s) affiliation rules.

-If I am an employer and I employ an ex AFL player who decides he would like to have a kick at my old footy team, eg Elsternwick, why should that be seen as an inducement? How far do you go? A young kid mows the coaches lawn one weekend for $30 whilst studying, is that an inducement?

-Should there be a points cap in an Amateur competition?

-Is it important where a player has played previously?

-Should there be a yearly cap of the amount of ex AFL players allowed to be registered with one club for the following year?

-And the best one, and perhaps the most pertinent one………
Why are all players two points less in 2021 than they were in 2019 when we didn’t play at all in 2020?
Who made that ham fisted decision? How about they acknowledge the mistake today that they got it wrong and simply make the adjustment and add 1 point to each affected player? Immediately? From this weekend onwards?

-Uni Blues are flogs but are in the process of destroying their club so it’s a joy to watch from afar.

Mr "VB" ...Very Bitter ... why the dig at one Richard Evans ?? are you a OMs person by any chance ??

 

[bedford]

Great article. Well written and I think that most would be in furious agreement. However the hypocrisy is stunning as about a decade ago Scotch were one of the first clubs, if not the first club to turn Premier into an arms race. They are now complaining because other clubs did it better. As the Glorious Brian Hogan so correctly articulated, they were very happy to recruit players from other VAFA clubs. In fact they still do and plucked a talented young kid from my club this year on the promise of a VFL pathway. All is fair in love and war and football but if you are going to pot other clubs and publish such an emotive article then best be squeaky clean yourself.

On another note, a bit rich for a big, cashed up, prestigious all boys APS school based in a blue blood suburb to roll out the “it’s unfair” line. Try competing as a small ACC school or district club, particularly if you don’t have a direct junior feeder. My club has hung in for a long time but I cannot realistically see a time when we will ever again be competitive in ‘A’ grade. Likewise St Bedes, Trinity and St Bernards have flown the flag as non-APS/Melbourne Uni clubs competing at the pointy end but every chance that by 2022 the last of these will be gone as well. That’s not a complaint. We all find our level but the reality is that Premier will become an extension of the APS competition with one or two Melbourne Uni clubs thrown in for good measure. If you don’t believe me have a look at the B grade ladder – Old Haileybury (who have finally got their act together) and Uni Blacks are 1 and 2.

So it is great that the Scotch President has raised these issues now but perhaps he should reflect on the fact they his club was and still is part of the problem.

I thought it was a fair piece . The Uni points are the joke.

 

[oldtimer]

20 - 25 years ago if a AFL player wanted to come back and play VAFA then they had to sit out of football for a year before they could play. With so many AFL / Elite footballers coming into the system there is no chance that teams from C Grade will ever make it to A Grade. With the networks the schools have and the lack that the district and lower ranked clubs have then it will never be a level playing field. Unfortunately, the VAFA have enabled this to occur.

 

[Mike Olotripo]

Can we for a moment at least be glad that quality players are choosing to play in our competition.

Old Scotch seem to still be sour that they have gone so long without an A grade premiership or even a senior premiership in any grade for such a long time.

Also, I didn't hear people bemoaning the fact that Matt Suckling has found his way to the Gunn Reserve or that returning AFL footballers who previously played at a VAFA club or their junior affiliate brought a mate or two down with them.

In fairness, Tim Shearer is right in saying that the points allocation for NAB League Players is probably too high. I know plenty of players who have played solid TAC Cup / NAB League footy who are still very raw and take time to develop as senior footballers.

Personally, I believe that if a non-junior affiliated NAB League player comes to your club, they should be a 3 point player with an extra point added if they played in a Vic Country or Vic Metro side during this period.

 

[TheArmy]

20 - 25 years ago if a AFL player wanted to come back and play VAFA then they had to sit out of football for a year before they could play. With so many AFL / Elite footballers coming into the system there is no chance that teams from C Grade will ever make it to A Grade. With the networks the schools have and the lack that the district and lower ranked clubs have then it will never be a level playing field. Unfortunately, the VAFA have enabled this to occur.

The other side of the coin is if you forced players to sit out in this modern times we would have a less standard comp and it would be heading towards nothing more than a pub league.

 

[10571z]

Suggest all VAFA players and supporters read this article asap Just the tip of the iceberg - The admin/board take note or the winds of change will sweep through.

https://oldscotchfc.com.au/

Fantastic article. He couldn’t be more correct. Claiming “Amatuer” status while attracting players via employment opportunities simply isn’t “Amatuer”.

And yes, player points system has holes everywhere.

 

[RednWhite]

20 - 25 years ago if a AFL player wanted to come back and play VAFA then they had to sit out of football for a year before they could play. With so many AFL / Elite footballers coming into the system there is no chance that teams from C Grade will ever make it to A Grade. With the networks the schools have and the lack that the district and lower ranked clubs have then it will never be a level playing field. Unfortunately, the VAFA have enabled this to occur.

From an outsider now looking in, I made a comment to someone at UHS the other week that the VAFA is setup to the benefit of the grammar schools. Look at Premier C for example. How do you expect UHS and Preston to compete against sides that can offer jobs, future education reductions etc. so those that complain about premier, B and C having an advantage look at those clubs further down and ask if any of them could ever make it past the bottom of premier C.