Boxing Vale Muhammad Ali / Cassius Clay

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chefmeister

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It's an obscene comparison.

I grew up when Tyson was the Baddest Man on the Planet like a lot of people here, but comparing him to Ali, particularly post-Liston, pre-banning Ali is bloody madness. Ali would have slaughtered him.
Boxing pretty much died in the arse after Ali for the majority of people. Lacklustre heavyweights, boring fights, corruption etc.

Then Tyson came along and reinvigorated interest again by making it exciting once more.

I think it's because they're both such 'household' names that the comparison always comes up, that and the hype surrounding both fighters.
Take Mayweather for example - he's a big name due to his own hype and many who don't even follow boxing know who he is. Also explains why a large % of people who watched his "Fight of the Century" with Pacman complained about how underwhelming it was. They'd obviously never watched much of Floyd (if at all) to know what to expect from his way of doing business. They'd just heard the name before.

From the casual observers perspective anyway...

I still think seeing an Ali vs Tyson fight would be pretty sweet though.
 

GreyCrow

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Boxing pretty much died in the arse after Ali for the majority of people. Lacklustre heavyweights, boring fights, corruption etc.

Then Tyson came along and reinvigorated interest again by making it exciting once more.
This was all I needed to read. Apart from the lighter weight Aussie boxers my interest in boxing followed the pattern you described
 

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JackFlash

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Wasn't a fan personally. I mean sure he was great at his chosen sport but he bragged way too much for my tastes. His head seemed constantly up his own arse. I prefer my sportsmen and women to be a little more humble.

I see him as the sporting version of Kanye West in terms of arrogance.

Few could argue with his athletic prowess at his peak in the 1960s, with his dancing feet and quick fists. But Ali became much more than a sportsman. He spoke boldly against racism in the ‘60s as well as against the Vietnam War. The bragging was all part of the show, Ali has publicly credited professional wrestling for shaping and molding his ability to promote a boxing match like no other. It was in 1961 when Ali met pro wrestling superstar Gorgeous George that the future boxing champion realised the significance of selling a fight. George would come to the ring in flamboyant style shouting: ‘If this bum beats me I’ll crawl across the ring and cut off my hair, but it’s not gonna happen because I’m the greatest fighter in the world. Ali - “And all the time, I was saying to myself: ‘Man. I want to see this fight’ And the whole place was sold out when Gorgeous George wrestled … including me … and that’s when I decided if I talked more, there was no telling how much people would pay to see me." Ali would go on to establish a legacy of pre-fight theatrics that would hold just as much significance outside of the ring as the action inside of it.

Kanye West isn't an eccentric genius and, worse, isn't even trying to feign eccentricity? What if Kanye didn't spout off a bunch of quirky, polarizing diatribes because he wanted to go down in history as a creative genius, but because he is, in fact, a complete and utter moron? The history of pop music is littered with odd, eccentric lunatics that are now considered geniuses, and Kanye just wanted to be one of them. He has spent the past decade or so trying to convince people that he's got Prince-levels of eccentricity, he hasn't. Ali was a very smart man, Kanye is just plain dumb.

It's tough to argue that anyone could have embodied the 60s and 70s better than Ali when he refused to fight in the Vietnam War. At the time being the Heavyweight champion of the world was the greatest achievement in world sports. In 1967 more people knew who Muhammad Ali was than the President of the United States? Ali transcended sports. Ali earned all of his bragging rights.
 

Ry009

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Whenever i wish to read anything with that extra little bit more stupidity attached to it , i come here to Big Footy.com.

To be honest, it's a fair effort though to get paid six figures to stand stationary for 8 hours day.
 

Partridge

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Wasn't a fan personally. I mean sure he was great at his chosen sport but he bragged way too much for my tastes. His head seemed constantly up his own arse. I prefer my sportsmen and women to be a little more humble.

That because he knew how to promote his fights, or in the vernacular - "draw money". If it wasn't for his ability to hype his fights, the battles with Liston and Frazier and Foreman and Norton wouldn't have had the interest that they did.
 

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Partridge

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Greatest athlete? I don't think so, Greatest boxer, yes. RIP, Cassius Clay

He'd be right up there in the discussion. I'd be very comfortable saying greatest heavyweight. Not sure about greatest boxer - might go for Sugar Ray Robinson. But there's very little between them.
 

Partridge

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He was taking the p!ss. Trolling to use the modern vernacular. Ali was a massive fan of legendary professional wrestler Gorgeous George and admitted he borrowed heavily from his persona. Its absolutely hilarious that in 2016, the gullible are still falling for it

There's a story Ali might have had his wrestlers confused, and it was actually Freddie Blassie he got the promo ideas from. Makes a lot of sense, Blassie was a far better talker than Gorgeous George.
 

Partridge

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It's an obscene comparison.

I grew up when Tyson was the Baddest Man on the Planet like a lot of people here, but comparing him to Ali, particularly post-Liston, pre-banning Ali is bloody madness. Ali would have slaughtered him.

Thank you for saying it. Saved me the trouble.

Another massive difference between the two was how they could take a punch. Tyson didn't exactly have the most durable jaw when faced with Douglas or Holyfield. Ali's jaw was made of granite.
 

Partridge

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After this blizzard of posts and responses, thought it's time to remind everyone how great he was AT HIS PEAK.

This is not the version that faced and eventually bested Frazier. Or the version that amazingly overcame a seriously scary George Foreman. This is the 24-year-old, reigning heavyweight champ just reaching his peak, facing a very heavy hitter in Cleveland Williams.

I give you an absolute masterclass...

 

the_interloper

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He'd be right up there in the discussion. I'd be very comfortable saying greatest heavyweight. Not sure about greatest boxer - might go for Sugar Ray Robinson. But there's very little between them.

I would too. I'd even entertain the thought that Joe Louis is the GOAT HW, personally I'd go Ali because of the great era he fought in but it's all opinion based I guess. But then again you'd have to consider Wlad Klitschko I think if you're going to argue Louis, Lennox Lewis also dominated his era as well. But you can't forget Foreman and Frazier of course. And then there's Jack Dempsey. And Jack Johnson. And this is pretty hard.
 

Herne Hill Hammer

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Thank you for saying it. Saved me the trouble.

Another massive difference between the two was how they could take a punch. Tyson didn't exactly have the most durable jaw when faced with Douglas or Holyfield. Ali's jaw was made of granite.

I'll stick up for Tyson here.

I remember vividly standing in a packed Belmont Hotel with my mates watching Douglas beat Tyson. iirc, it took 27 head shots for Buster to eventually put Tyson down. He took massive punishment.

Once he came out of prison he was a shadow of his former self. He would beat the bums they put him against purely on reputation / intimidation factor. Against anyone decent he was gone, he'd completely lost all of his timing.

For me, Lewis punishing him was like Holmes punishing Ali at the end.
 

Jade

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I would too. I'd even entertain the thought that Joe Louis is the GOAT HW, personally I'd go Ali because of the great era he fought in but it's all opinion based I guess. But then again you'd have to consider Wlad Klitschko I think if you're going to argue Louis, Lennox Lewis also dominated his era as well. But you can't forget Foreman and Frazier of course. And then there's Jack Dempsey. And Jack Johnson. And this is pretty hard.

I don't really think Wlad can be considered there. I love the guy, but he's just not of the same quality.
 

hey shorty

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I would too. I'd even entertain the thought that Joe Louis is the GOAT HW, personally I'd go Ali because of the great era he fought in but it's all opinion based I guess. But then again you'd have to consider Wlad Klitschko I think if you're going to argue Louis, Lennox Lewis also dominated his era as well. But you can't forget Foreman and Frazier of course. And then there's Jack Dempsey. And Jack Johnson. And this is pretty hard.
I've often wondered why Marciano isn't mentioned in the same breath. Undefeated champion, weaker era for sure but still a great.
 

Jade

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I've often wondered why Marciano isn't mentioned in the same breath. Undefeated champion, weaker era for sure but still a great.

The problem with Marciano is that there are so many better, both in his own style, and in fighters that could counter him.

Very fortunate to have fought when he did, from a legacy perspective.
 

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