Varcoe - will he keep his spot

[Budda 230]

I'm of the opinion that Varcoe's defensive pressure has been overated the past few weeks. Yeah he averages nearly 5 tackles a game, but I think Geelong's defensive pressure down the ground stagnates the opposition's run, making Varcoe's pressure look more effective than it really is. You don't need pace to run down a stagnate or cruising player who is struggling for options.

The other thing that frustrates me with Varcoe is that the offensive skills he does possess are so potentially damaging. Yet he continues to leave them in the bag. I believe he sets himself in positions that help his defensive skills too often. He doesn't want to have to use all his energy in case he is spent for the opposition rebound.

I think Varcoe needs to have a look at Cyril Rioli as he seems to balance the benefits of offensive and defensive skills perfectly.

 

[whoknows]

I believe he sets himself in positions that help his defensive skills too often. He doesn't want to have to use all his energy in case he is spent for the opposition rebound.

To me, this sounds like the coaches' doing. If Varcoe was setting himself in the wrong position, he would be pulled up about it.

Simple fact is he's in the side as a defensive forward - I used to be a huge critic - but these days I think he's improved at it. I think Geelong need that pace, and I think he brings a fair bit to the team not provided by anyone else (i.e. he's unique). Prismall can be replaced by Ablett, (one day) Lonergan by Hawkins. Same reason I like Gamble - but his skills/what he brings, can actually be replaced by Chapman.

 

[Tay29]

TV's influence on the game is immense! When cats game is flowing, one very important part is the ability to score quickly at key periods of the game. Time after time it comes through the turn-over that is the result of pressure building building building. When that's been happening, its often as not TV was the fuse.
Its not just his tackles, its the desperate fling at the defender in the act of disposing of it, that gives TV's teammate that chance of making it a contest up the ground, rather than an uncontested possession because no-one could be bothered. The contest leadss to pressure around the ball; always with the cats having more options - turnover - counter attack -goal!
Don't underestimate TV's importance to the above process. No-one else gives Geelong that!
Stokes was in his early career, but has developed in other areas now, incl on-ball.

Not many of us are disputing his pressure and tackling efforts. He normally manages to run down at least 1 person a game winning a turn over which is great. That stuff is close to top class but the other parts of his game are almost non-existent. The guy plays forward pocket whose traditional role is to crumb the ball when it hits the ground. I don't recall on one occasion last weekend where he was around the contest when Geelong actually kicked long. I know every player is encouraged to make leads in the forward 50 but at some stage, if you're the one not leading, you have to know where the ball is going to go if they kick long and be there.

Maybe what I expect from him is too old school or that it's not part of the Cats game plan. Maybe I even being too harsh on the kid... Even though we are flying, there are some things that are noticeable. Bomber and players said there are always things the Cats can improve on. I am also not saying he is solely responsible because he's not but to me it's one of the areas that he should work on.

 

[someday-somehow]

Gamble is more important then Varcoe, at this moment anyway. Gamble isn't exactly a sucker when it comes to defensive pressure, and his hardness at the ball is something we tend to miss when Chapman and Stokes are being rotated throuygh the midfield (which happens alot nowdays.) I really can't see Varcoe keeping his spot when we have a full team to pick from.

This whole defensive aspect of Varcoes game is nice but he also needs to have a more direct influence on the game. He needs to kick goals, need to gain more possessions, needs to use his speed more. At the moment he just isnt doing that. In a year or two he will be a good player at the moment just seems to be struggling.

In a nutshell, Varcoe is really beginning to frustrate me, does not do nearly enough and the occasional run down tackle does not determine a spot. He looked good a few weeks back.....pity.

 

[Exhale You]

A month ago there weren't enough superlatives to describe Travis' performances, now it seems like there a contest to see who can shit on him from the greatest height.

 

[Tay29]

A month ago there weren't enough superlatives to describe Travis' performances, now it seems like there a contest to see who can shit on him from the greatest height.

A week is a long time in football. 4 weeks is an eternity.

 

[DanA]

Very happy with TV's game at the moment. I think in the last month TV turnovers have given us around 10-12 goals. You might not see it on TV but he puts a lot of pressure on our opponents to get rid of the ball and his tackles stick. Now it seems he is creating defensive pressure coming off the line from the center bounces as well.

Doesn't get much of the ball but when he does his disposal is fantastic (although zero penetration on his kick).

I get the feeling Varcoe has been told to rest when we have possession and work like a dog to get it back when we don't.

Highly underrated by the looks of things.

 

[sarah.13]

With Milburn out, Ablett will be the only inclusion.
This gives Varcoe, Prismall, Gamble and Taylor 1 more week to strut their stuff.
In a funny sort of way the tribunal has done the selectors a favour.

 

[Azdrubal]

Not many of us are disputing his pressure and tackling efforts. He normally manages to run down at least 1 person a game winning a turn over which is great. That stuff is close to top class but the other parts of his game are almost non-existent. The guy plays forward pocket whose traditional role is to crumb the ball when it hits the ground. I don't recall on one occasion last weekend where he was around the contest when Geelong actually kicked long. I know every player is encouraged to make leads in the forward 50 but at some stage, if you're the one not leading, you have to know where the ball is going to go if they kick long and be there.

Forward pocket? ... traditional role? Puhleeaase - to re-use a hackneyed phrase: "the game is not the same".
Not too much of this kicking-long stuff, to let the crumbers get to work! That's turn-over time in the modern game. Success in 2008 (and Geelong made it this way) is to control the ball. Quick disposal, always attacking, possession football, always with options, run and support and run some more. Apply great strength to the contest when the ball's free or if the other side has it. Apply even greater strength to genuine contested ball situations, but work it so you don't have too much of that. TV is the prototype modern footballer; you watch, every team will be developing one in the next year or so, if they aren't already.

 

[rohan]

Very happy with TV's game at the moment. I think in the last month TV turnovers have given us around 10-12 goals. You might not see it on TV but he puts a lot of pressure on our opponents to get rid of the ball and his tackles stick. Now it seems he is creating defensive pressure coming off the line from the center bounces as well.

Doesn't get much of the ball but when he does his disposal is fantastic (although zero penetration on his kick).

I get the feeling Varcoe has been told to rest when we have possession and work like a dog to get it back when we don't.

Highly underrated by the looks of things.

Is that why he had 7 touches on the weekend and 4 clangers?

Are you for real champ? They tell a small forward to rest while they have the ball. Farrrr out the people on here, it seriously makes you laugh.

 

[Tay29]

Forward pocket? ... traditional role? Puhleeaase - to re-use a hackneyed phrase: "the game is not the same".
Not too much of this kicking-long stuff, to let the crumbers get to work! That's turn-over time in the modern game. Success in 2008 (and Geelong made it this way) is to control the ball. Quick disposal, always attacking, possession football, always with options, run and support and run some more. Apply great strength to the contest when the ball's free or if the other side has it. Apply even greater strength to genuine contested ball situations, but work it so you don't have too much of that. TV is the prototype modern footballer; you watch, every team will be developing one in the next year or so, if they aren't already.

A guy who can tackle and but not get a lot of possessions himself?!?!?!? Why the hell would you want to prototype that? It's not even new! I think there is a little too much man-love going on here. Varcoe hasn't done much for other teams to copy. I remember Junior and Chappy doing the exact same thing as Varcoe when they were younger. Difference was that they could hold the ball in the forward line and kick goals. The only thing Varcoe does better is chase into the midfield.

I agree the game is not the same but there are times when the ball goes in long and Varcoe isn't anywhere near the contest when the ball goes to ground. If part of his role is not to crumb for goals in the forward line then what the hell is he doing in the team?

 

[cool cats]

Forward pocket? ... traditional role? Puhleeaase - to re-use a hackneyed phrase: "the game is not the same".
Not too much of this kicking-long stuff, to let the crumbers get to work! That's turn-over time in the modern game. Success in 2008 (and Geelong made it this way) is to control the ball. Quick disposal, always attacking, possession football, always with options, run and support and run some more. Apply great strength to the contest when the ball's free or if the other side has it. Apply even greater strength to genuine contested ball situations, but work it so you don't have too much of that. TV is the prototype modern footballer; you watch, every team will be developing one in the next year or so, if they aren't already.

possession football you say. well where the hell are trav's possessions?? seven on the weekend to bring his average to around 10 per game. not good enough trav. my dad could sit in the forward line and wait for it to come in, let his opponent get it, then tackle him. get the ball yourself trav and kick a couple while you are at it.

 

[vinum coupe]

as I've said before, I love him. He runs around like a mad chook chasing.
Fastest man in the forward line and he catches teams out early, which generally helps to make them rush.

But, he looked to be tiring on 3rd and 4th efforts on Saturday, and if he is to start doing that he'd want to get it 15 times a game.

1 more chance, maybe 2.

 

[rocker_oz33]

he will prob keep his spot this week l would like to see him kick a few more goals and setting some more up we all know he gets little of the pill but only if he kicked goals more often every thing will be ok

 

[someday-somehow]

I have watched the replay on TV and it shows that Trav was solid but not spectacular but when I was watching the game on Friday night (at the ground not on the TV) I don't think the television replay shows the whole story.
So many times Trav was sitting outside of the pack waiting for the ball to come straight to him it really made me shake my head. I'm trying not to be too harsh on him but for me he looks a little too "Leon Davis" - has the occasional good game but goes missing too much.

I personally think he is potentially more skilled than Neon and hopefully will develop a hardness and commitment to the ball because if he does he will be a very damaging player.

 

[vinum coupe]

you do all realise that if he goes out there is only one man that will come in for him? Similar small forward, runs fast, kicks with the left foot..........

 

[Cheshire Cat]

I have watched the replay on TV and it shows that Trav was solid but not spectacular but when I was watching the game on Friday night (at the ground not on the TV) I don't think the television replay shows the whole story.
So many times Trav was sitting outside of the pack waiting for the ball to come straight to him it really made me shake my head. I'm trying not to be too harsh on him but for me he looks a little too "Leon Davis" - has the occasional good game but goes missing too much.

I personally think he is potentially more skilled than Neon and hopefully will develop a hardness and commitment to the ball because if he does he will be a very damaging player.

I agree with that, except he is a lesser player than Davis if you compared them at the same age. I actually think Varcoe has improved this year but come finals I think he will drop out again.

 

[polly63]

I personally think he is potentially more skilled than Neon and hopefully will develop a hardness and commitment to the ball because if he does he will be a very damaging player.

Big call there, don't agree.

I'm not sure what role Varcoe has this year in finals - suspect that he will miss out again. His work rate is hit and miss - excellent for 15 mins then goes missing for long periods, not what is required in intense high pressure games. Hope he improves, but he seems to have plateaued a bit. Certainly worth persevering with next year but if he doesn't find a permanent spot late 2009 I suspect they might trade him (pure speculation).

 

[vinum coupe]

Certainly worth persevering with next year but if he doesn't find a permanent spot late 2009 I suspect they might trade him (pure speculation).

no chance. He is just getting a free ride until he matures. ala Nablett. Once he builds the tank (may take another 3 years ) he goes straight into the midfield

 

[Catno29]

More upside to Travis than many other young players on our current list. Would not be in our best 22 right now but should blossom over the next 2 years. Has the skills but lacks confidence at times ala leaving the ball behind on Sat when taking a bounce. I would give him another 1-2 weeks as the more time he can spend rotating through the middle with Gaz and Jimmy the more he will learn.

 

[cat in sydney]

no chance. He is just getting a free ride until he matures. ala Nablett. Once he builds the tank (may take another 3 years ) he goes straight into the midfield

Correct. Based on some short stints he's had in the midfield in a few games this year, he's actually displayed some glimpses of real potential for a middy spot.
I'd be suggesting they'll have him earmarked as a permanent mid from 2010 on. (2009 they'll play him mostly as a forward, but rotating into the midfield, a bit like Gaz in his early years).

 

[Tay29]

Posted on the main board that Varcoe has been dropped for Byrnes. No update on AFL website yet.

 

[Rubberducky]

I don't know, I see him as a young player that is given a role and if he plays that role he's safe.

No different to a back pocket, might not get a heap of the ball but in providing defensive pressure we look a 3 goal better team by not allowing free run out of the backline. It's not just tackles, it's pressure that could be laid tackles, attempted tackles, the chase itself forcing a hurried kick.

It's hard to speculate on whether he should get to more contests, I personally feel in watching him that he's instructed not to create more numbers at the contest much like 1 of our midfielders do in the center with at least 1 staying out for defensive pressure or the complete offensive when we go back to go forward.

I could be wrong and he could be getting a free ride for the experience. I guess we'll find out in the next few weeks.

 

[vinum coupe]

you do all realise that if he goes out there is only one man that will come in for him? Similar small forward, runs fast, kicks with the left foot..........

ta daaaaa!!!!

 

[Rubberducky]

And now we've all found out....