Roast Varcoe

[The Casey Cat]

I just think you cant be saying ffs, and I am an idiot for quoting brereton and the like and expect nothing in response? The kiddies reference and all the rest of it is what I consider light hearted banter in here, do we disagree again?

Fair enough. In saying FFS I was just showing my frustration that's all. Not meaning to attack you. Did not exactly say you were an 'idiot' for quoting Brereton either. Just said he has his good and bad views.

I said Trav was average Friday night. Average means can we expect more, absolutely.

Will leave it at that. We do all agree after all about Trav's performance on Friday. We just don't all agree on what to do about it (I don't want him dropped either as far as that's concerned) but that's fine if everyone thought and saw things the same would be a boring world.

 

[darren forssman]

I saw enough space in front of and around Varcoe that he could have ran further forward and had a shot at goal. Was not that far out and is a great long kick on the run. Fair enough if the contested stuff isn't his strength but as an 'outside player' this was the sort of situation he had to do a bit better in and he didn't step up there either.

sim, he had nothing ahead of him and 2 pies (from memory) corralling him at the half forward line who he was trying to draw to him so that he could handpass to chappy.

 

[Partridge]

YES his outside game is important to us and he does some valuable things but I highly doubt ANY of it would have been compromised by him crashing in when it is his time to go or by trying a little bit harder in marking contests. That is what people here are on about. Is not about him dominating, racking up x amount of kicks and goals or whatever but more about him at least TRYING to win the ball when it is your turn to go.

I for one and am not quite sure I want him dropped but I want him to pick up his contested play at least to the level it was the last couple of years. Right now it just isn't as I don't care how bad his shoulder was.

Spot on. Apparently when you have a winning side, no criticism of any player is tolerated, as everything is now and forever perfect. No further improvement possible.

I wasn't that bothered by his botched handpass to Chapman, what did bother me was his featherweight tackling attempt on Pendlebury. That's the major problem he has right now - running around opposing players and falling off them when he could be tackling them front on.

Fail to see why that can't be mentioned.

 

[vinum coupe]

I am the same with the handball.
It wasn't 'oh not him again' it was more 'bugger'

Bit worried he may get done for the sling tackle tomorrow and have a reason to not tackle at all

 

[David the Cat]

Partridge...of course Varcoe or others can be criticised. He's a developing player still and SOME of the criticism of him may be warranted....but go back to the first post .... thats what got some people's backs up...because the pro Varcoe set ( and I am one of course ) think writing such a dismissive and negative thread about a player of Varcoe's class is unnecessary, particularly as he wasn't pathetic last week...not brilliant but did make a fair contribution.....and written on the back of a great team effort in beating the top side.

vc may have written it like that to spark and exchange... ( to stir the pot is not beyond him!! ) and he certainly succeeded there. I suspect there is more to how TV is playing right now than we know, but the coaches are clearly pleased with his response to their instructions, and generally how he is playing...

Which puts the OP out on a limb in my view....

 

[kanyewest]

Fail to see why that can't be mentioned.

It can be mentioned, just don't be surprised when people come back saying it's laughable. So Trav missed a tackle. Pretty sure Chappy did too - more than once. And in case you haven't noticed before, Pendlebury isn't the easiest guy to take down.

The issue some of us have is that it's an over-reaction to suggest the guy be dropped for a couple of errors. Especially when he did some good things too! No one mentioned the clean up goal after sprinting half the ground or when he absolutely crunched Goldsack. That certainly wasn't soft.

 

[Vdubs]

Spot on. Apparently when you have a winning side, no criticism of any player is tolerated, as everything is now and forever perfect. No further improvement possible.

I wasn't that bothered by his botched handpass to Chapman, what did bother me was his featherweight tackling attempt on Pendlebury. That's the major problem he has right now - running around opposing players and falling off them when he could be tackling them front on.

Fail to see why that can't be mentioned.

Of course all you say is fair, but he is not bad enough to be dropped. We win ny 3 points in a really close, tough game, he's kicked a goal in most games, can you ensure his replacement is better and gets those Varcoe goals? No. He must be given time to regain fitness, confidence and form, in the firsts, specially while we have credits.

 

[TheHonestyPolicy]

I can see this stuff going on for a while. The Varcoe bashing. Funny how now its reading; hey cant we just criticise our player?....from the....drop the prick he's useless....the flurry posters, that this thread started out with.

I wonder if people werent here to balance the equation a bit how the rest of this thread would have really played out? Can only wonder.

From a human psychology point of view though; We just beat Collingwood by 3 pts. The "it" team right now, who smashed us in the PF last season and made us look silly. And yet all some people can think of is lets get straight into this forum and drop 25% of the side, Trav included.

Somehow this blind vitriol helps the team. Improves us; makes us so much better for next week. I really hate to break it to you guys, but the Geelong footy coaches arent reading this shit and they're much much smarter than any of us about modern footy. So none of this helps. Its scribble on a wall much like a toilet block. People stop by from time to time, but no one's coming in to examine the piles of shit afterwards. Well hang on, the footy media coming in here given they know less about the footy than anyone!!

From my point of view, I wouldnt mind just coming in here and reading stuff about great wins, great moments in the game, straight after a big win. Maybe people could wait 48 hrs after a great win before whining their arses off about missed tackles on wet nights, guys slipping over in stoppages, guys who arent at their peak form but still contributing.

I mean surely Geelong supporters would be so wrapped to beat the Pies that for even a few hours they could temper their negativity? I assume we are all cat fans in here? Who knows? Its just an anonymous forum after all, no way of knowing otherwise. But the shit that gets spilled in here sometimes straight after fantastic wins really makes you wonder.

Food for thought hopefully. Before the usual negs step in.

 

[maxy87]

I can see this stuff going on for a while. The Varcoe bashing. Funny how now its reading; hey cant we just criticise our player?....from the....drop the prick he's useless....the flurry posters, that this thread started out with.

I wonder if people werent here to balance the equation a bit how the rest of this thread would have really played out? Can only wonder.

From a human psychology point of view though; We just beat Collingwood by 3 pts. The "it" team right now, who smashed us in the PF last season and made us look silly. And yet all some people can think of is lets get straight into this forum and drop 25% of the side, Trav included.

Somehow this blind vitriol helps the team. Improves us; makes us so much better for next week. I really hate to break it to you guys, but the Geelong footy coaches arent reading this shit and they're much much smarter than any of us about modern footy. So none of this helps. Its scribble on a wall much like a toilet block. People stop by from time to time, but no one's coming in to examine the piles of shit afterwards. Well hang on, the footy media coming in here given they know less about the footy than anyone!!

From my point of view, I wouldnt mind just coming in here and reading stuff about great wins, great moments in the game, straight after a big win. Maybe people could wait 48 hrs after a great win before whining their arses off about missed tackles on wet nights, guys slipping over in stoppages, guys who arent at their peak form but still contributing.

I mean surely Geelong supporters would be so wrapped to beat the Pies that for even a few hours they could temper their negativity? I assume we are all cat fans in here? Who knows? Its just an anonymous forum after all, no way of knowing otherwise. But the shit that gets spilled in here sometimes straight after fantastic wins really makes you wonder.

Food for thought hopefully. Before the usual negs step in.

Agreed. Nothing wrong with critiquing performances but a lot of the time it's hardly constructive and gets rather tiresome

 

[Gladbaqs]

Varcoe's role at the moment is on the outside. He is our man that uses his pace to break away from the congestion. He's not trying to be a Max Rooke tackling machine that takes everyone on with or without the ball. Although, I do remember his tackle on Goldsack, and I would say it would have been one of the hardest of the night. As TheHonestyPolicy pointed out too, he had three tackles, more than a number of other Geelong players.

It was a super tackle, no doubt. Does anybody know exactly when it happened? I'd love to have a look at it again.

I really felt on Friday that Varoce was opting to let Collingwood players take possession so he could lay a tackle. If Varcoe was close enough to directly contest the ball with Goldsack, then the tackle doesn't impress me. We all know which option Selwood would take.

He's not as good as last year yet, and we were all hoping he'd be even better, hence the roast. My vote goes to keeping him for the long haul and being patient.

 

[The 747]

I can see this stuff going on for a while. The Varcoe bashing. Funny how now its reading; hey cant we just criticise our player?....from the....drop the prick he's useless....the flurry posters, that this thread started out with.

I wonder if people werent here to balance the equation a bit how the rest of this thread would have really played out? Can only wonder.

From a human psychology point of view though; We just beat Collingwood by 3 pts. The "it" team right now, who smashed us in the PF last season and made us look silly. And yet all some people can think of is lets get straight into this forum and drop 25% of the side, Trav included.

Somehow this blind vitriol helps the team. Improves us; makes us so much better for next week. I really hate to break it to you guys, but the Geelong footy coaches arent reading this shit and they're much much smarter than any of us about modern footy. So none of this helps. Its scribble on a wall much like a toilet block. People stop by from time to time, but no one's coming in to examine the piles of shit afterwards. Well hang on, the footy media coming in here given they know less about the footy than anyone!!

From my point of view, I wouldnt mind just coming in here and reading stuff about great wins, great moments in the game, straight after a big win. Maybe people could wait 48 hrs after a great win before whining their arses off about missed tackles on wet nights, guys slipping over in stoppages, guys who arent at their peak form but still contributing.

I mean surely Geelong supporters would be so wrapped to beat the Pies that for even a few hours they could temper their negativity? I assume we are all cat fans in here? Who knows? Its just an anonymous forum after all, no way of knowing otherwise. But the shit that gets spilled in here sometimes straight after fantastic wins really makes you wonder.

Food for thought hopefully. Before the usual negs step in.

I take the point. But conversely when you have just come back from the game and one player in particular has really fired you up....when you watched 21 others trying their heart out and 1 guy - to put it bluntly not trying his heart, picking and choosing when to go and when not to, it's hard not to fire away.

I saw what I saw at the game, and others in this thread obviously saw the same things. It is not intended as a message to coaches or anyone, it is fans who support the team commenting on what they saw.

And yes I would drop him for that effort but it's not my call to make.

 

[GoCattas]

I expected Trav to take a step up this year, but have not seen an improvement... He's kinda slided a bit from last year. Hopefully we see an improvement soon!

 

[TheHonestyPolicy]

I take the point. But conversely when you have just come back from the game and one player in particular has really fired you up....when you watched 21 others trying their heart out and 1 guy - to put it bluntly not trying his heart, picking and choosing when to go and when not to, it's hard not to fire away.

I saw what I saw at the game, and others in this thread obviously saw the same things. It is not intended as a message to coaches or anyone, it is fans who support the team commenting on what they saw.

And yes I would drop him for that effort but it's not my call to make.

I think some people struggle with the notion that Varcoe's role in the side is to stay on his feet and offer run and carry and it isnt to be Joel Selwood at a stoppage. Can you imagine for a moment this is what Trav is being asked to do by the coach? If it wasnt, how is he getting selected every week and playing the same role week in week out? I would love an answer to this conundrum some day.

Now I agree his overall output can improve. Personally I still dont seem him as 100% from the pre season. Chapman missed parts of the pre season and mentioned "On the Couch" just this Monday he will be battling and training to catch up all season and probably never will. Funny, Chappy missed tackles and was slipping over Friday night too whilst absolutely giving it is all in the process. Admitted he wasnt at his best since the bye and was working hard to improve. Isnt it all completely possible Trav who is a different player to Chappy to start with is in the same process?

To however suggest Trav is weak and soft and avoiding harm and contact
involved in the same efforts is IMO a convenient perception. Its to taint a person and their reputation without a fair assessment of what their role is in the side or in comparison to other players who are also battling fitness.

Put simply I call this bias. Thats my view of it. Of course you will say it isnt, and thats the nature of this forum. But bias generally never changes its mind. Regardless of what Trav does from here, there are plenty who will never change their mind even if a bald stocky bloke who looks mean and tough is struggling with getting it right too. Then again, and maybe not you, but some just love a good whinge in here too. As maxy87 mentioned, its rarely constructive.

 

[The 747]

I think some people struggle with the notion that Varcoe's role in the side is to stay on his feet and offer run and carry and it isnt to be Joel Selwood at a stoppage. Can you imagine for a moment this is what Trav is being asked to do by the coach? If it wasnt, how is he getting selected every week and playing the same role week in week out? I would love an answer to this conundrum some day.

Now I agree his overall output can improve. Personally I still dont seem him as 100% from the pre season. Chapman missed parts of the pre season and mentioned "On the Couch" just this Monday he will be battling and training to catch up all season and probably never will. Funny, Chappy missed tackles and was slipping over Friday night too whilst absolutely giving it is all in the process. Admitted he wasnt at his best since the bye and was working hard to improve. Isnt it all completely possible Trav who is a different player to Chappy to start with is in the same process?

To however suggest Trav is weak and soft and avoiding harm and contact
involved in the same efforts is IMO a convenient perception. Its to taint a person and their reputation without a fair assessment of what their role is in the side or in comparison to other players who are also battling fitness.

Put simply I call this bias. Thats my view of it. Of course you will say it isnt, and thats the nature of this forum. But bias generally never changes its mind. Regardless of what Trav does from here, there are plenty who will never change their mind even if a bald stocky bloke who looks mean and tough is struggling with getting it right too. Then again, and maybe not you, but some just love a good whinge in here too. As maxy87 mentioned, its rarely constructive.

Not biased from me, he is one of my favourite players in our team when he plays well. But I saw live what I saw live on Friday night. I didn't see it from any other player on our team. What I saw was a player not just staying on his feet but avoiding contact when the team required contact. He won't become the player he threatens to be if he doesn't get that out of his game.
Haven't seen it from Varcoe in the last couple of years but I did on Friday night.

Anyway each has his own opinion, I hope he plays well on Friday.
But if he plays like that again, there will be posts in this thread from Geelong supporters.....

 

[TheHonestyPolicy]

Not biased from me, he is one of my favourite players in our team when he plays well. But I saw live what I saw live on Friday night. I didn't see it from any other player on our team. What I saw was a player not just staying on his feet but avoiding contact when the team required contact. He won't become the player he threatens to be if he doesn't get that out of his game.
Haven't seen it from Varcoe in the last couple of years but I did on Friday night.

Anyway each has his own opinion, I hope he plays well on Friday.
But if he plays like that again, there will be posts in this thread from Geelong supporters.....

Funny, you're not the only one coming in here saying he's one of your favourite players and ripping shreds off him. Fascinating. Its like you have to say he is a fav of yours so it justifies you getting into him.

I saw tough admired players at Geelong let players slip past them with feather weight tackles and slip over and miss contact in stoppages on Friday night. Many reasons why. Conditions, tempo of the game which Paul Roos said on Monday night far outweighed anything else he had seen this season so far. But you have tunnel vision it seems. Disregard what can be clearly seen at the game and on replay other players doing similar. Not by choice, just by the nature of the football itself last Friday. It was wet but fast and furious.

If your eyes are following one bloke (as I am sure they will be this Friday again as you have just admitted you're pumping yourself to do just this) then I am sure you will find what you are looking for mate. Just as us other supporters who want to watch and support the whole team will reply back to you, what rubbish and how laughable it really all is.

Chris Scott was one of the toughest blokes who played the modern game. IF varcoe was doing 10% of the stuff you suggest he would be dropped. Its as simple as that. I will hang my hat on his assessment too.

 

[Baudolino]

This is quite possibly a small tangent in the discussion guys, but this week on tweet the coach, Chris Scott answered my question on Trav - "Varcoe is so damaging with ball in hand, but he often has trouble finding it enough. Why? What does he need to improve?" - and I thought it was quite interesting that Scott focused on Trav's endurance as his major inhibitor. Didn't mention a need to find more inside ball that some have alluded to above...it does annoy me though that Trav has only had 20+ disposals something like 10 times in his entire career - as Chris said, if he ups his current output by even 5 possessions on average, he'll be a massive player.

I love this tweet the coach thing. I don't even use Twitter personally, the account I tweeted him with was pretty much purpose-made to talk to football (soccer) bloggers in England (I'm an Arsenal fan), but the instant feedback is awesome. Great innovation by the club, giving the fans legitimate access to the coach.

 

[vinum coupe]

Baudilino, that's been why I think they have had him running the lines all year.
He is up and back, up and back all day long.

I think they have said to him that although he may not be playing a lot of midfield this year he has to cover the ground like he is so that endurance base is ready for when they need him to take a larger role.

Just a gut feel.

 

[Partridge]

To however suggest Trav is weak and soft and avoiding harm and contact involved in the same efforts is IMO a convenient perception. Its to taint a person and their reputation without a fair assessment of what their role is in the side or in comparison to other players who are also battling fitness.

Put the ball on the ground with Selwood and Varcoe 10 metres either side. How do you see that contest panning out?

Put simply I call this bias. Thats my view of it. Of course you will say it isnt, and thats the nature of this forum. But bias generally never changes its mind. Regardless of what Trav does from here, there are plenty who will never change their mind even if a bald stocky bloke who looks mean and tough is struggling with getting it right too. Then again, and maybe not you, but some just love a good whinge in here too. As maxy87 mentioned, its rarely constructive.

Nonsense. Totally disagree. Why then aren't we talking about Christensen? He looks anything but mean and tough, however he is prepared to put his head over the ball and wear one when he has to. Right now, Varcoe isn't. That's the entire point of the argument.

If preconceptions remained in place, how has Lonergan gone from being heavily criticised on these boards (and I was one of them) to I would say one of our most admired? It's because fans respect effort and endeavour, as well as talent, and Lonergan has amply demonstrated all three attributes.

 

[cat in sydney]

Put the ball on the ground with Selwood and Varcoe 10 metres either side. How do you see that contest panning out?

My answer...
Varcoe getting to the ball marginally in front, but because he doesn't like body contact much, would be trying to toe-poke it out in front of himself to pick it up on the run.
Selwood would be coming in, diving head first on top of the ball, just as Varcoe's foot gets to it.
Result - Selwood ends up with the ball, with Varcoe having overrun it and possibly on his backside.

Not too much of a knock on Varcoe though, as I don't think too many people would beat Selwood in a one-on-one.

 

[Silverado]

Put the ball on the ground with Selwood and Varcoe 10 metres either side. How do you see that contest panning out?




Nonsense. Totally disagree. Why then aren't we talking about Christensen? He looks anything but mean and tough, however he is prepared to put his head over the ball and wear one when he has to. Right now, Varcoe isn't. That's the entire point of the argument.

If preconceptions remained in place, how has Lonergan gone from being heavily criticised on these boards (and I was one of them) to I would say one of our most admired? It's because fans respect effort and endeavour, as well as talent, and Lonergan has amply demonstrated all three attributes.

this

 

[maxy87]

I suspect that his reluctance to get in and under is mainly due to the psychological impact that his shoulder injuries have had on him. Once the confidence in the shoulder builds up (as well as the fitness base from missing some of the pre season) hopefully we'll see his output increase.

Why must every player on our list fit this narrow and rigid criteria that they have to be a burly, bash and crash grunt player. We have Selwood, Corey, Bartel and Chapman to fulfil these roles at the moment. If a ball tumbles onto the ground in traffic, I reckon I'd like to see Trav pick it up, burn off the line, make 25-30 m of ground and punch it to a target up forward if not slot the major himself. He's in the midfield for his creativity and speed. The other factors will come with time

 

[Silverado]

He has been playing like he has a rod in his back, cant bend down to get the ball and sticks his hand into a contest when it should be his body. certainly looks to have lost some genuine leg speed IMO

 

[Berserker26]

http://www.afl.com.au/tabid/208/default.aspx?newsid=114162

Some excerpts:

"I thought I'd struggle a bit when I came back and might have been running out of steam at this stage of the season," Varcoe explains.

"But I feel great and that's a credit to our fitness guys. They've kept me in top shape.

"When I had to watch the boys training during the summer, and they were saying it was the toughest pre-season they'd ever had, I was disappointed I wasn't out there.

"For myself, I had my own pre-season program and it was hard as well. Doing it by myself probably made it harder, but I feel confident that I've done all the right things.

"I go out there 100 per cent confident that I can run until the last minute of the game."

Varcoe is also full of praise for Geelong's weights gurus, who oversaw his rehabilitation after his shoulder was operated on late last year.

"They've helped me regain my strength, and I'm not scared to go into contests," he says. "I haven't been worried at all since my first game back.

"I can't thank all the medical staff enough. To get me back from a shoulder reconstruction in that amount of time is a bit mind-blowing for me, especially when you see some players struggle with shoulder injuries for a long time."

With this weekend's Indigenous Round featuring a 'warrior' theme, Varcoe will be using that as inspiration against the Blues on Friday night.

"Our ancestors were warriors, so it's almost like a perfect fit," Varcoe says.

"I think it's in our blood that we're all warriors. I'll take that mindset out onto the field this weekend."

 

[Cataholic]

I suspect that his reluctance to get in and under is mainly due to the psychological impact that his shoulder injuries have had on him. Once the confidence in the shoulder builds up (as well as the fitness base from missing some of the pre season) hopefully we'll see his output increase.

Why must every player on our list fit this narrow and rigid criteria that they have to be a burly, bash and crash grunt player. We have Selwood, Corey, Bartel and Chapman to fulfil these roles at the moment. If a ball tumbles onto the ground in traffic, I reckon I'd like to see Trav pick it up, burn off the line, make 25-30 m of ground and punch it to a target up forward if not slot the major himself. He's in the midfield for his creativity and speed. The other factors will come with time

cos we're so keen to find the next Rooke!

 

[maxy87]

Haha yeah I'd love to find a new Rooke but something tells me that having cracks at the hardness of a speedy outside midfielder/forward is about as useful as whining about the hardness of a small forward because we're looking for the next Tom Harley