Roast Varcoe

[David the Cat]

Haha yeah I'd love to find a new Rooke but something tells me that having cracks at the hardness of a speedy outside midfielder/forward is about as useful as whining about the hardness of a small forward because we're looking for the next Tom Harley

The new Rooke? Wow...will there ever be one..?

Then again....The Shredder ( Shroeder ) might fit the bill i time....my whisperer tells me he is impressing a few around the club with his attack on the ball.

 

[TheHonestyPolicy]

Put the ball on the ground with Selwood and Varcoe 10 metres either side. How do you see that contest panning out?




Nonsense. Totally disagree. Why then aren't we talking about Christensen? He looks anything but mean and tough, however he is prepared to put his head over the ball and wear one when he has to. Right now, Varcoe isn't. That's the entire point of the argument.

If preconceptions remained in place, how has Lonergan gone from being heavily criticised on these boards (and I was one of them) to I would say one of our most admired? It's because fans respect effort and endeavour, as well as talent, and Lonergan has amply demonstrated all three attributes.

Yes of course mate. Pick a convenient scenario to prove your point. Thanks for defining bias for me.
Put the ball between Selwood and I agree the admired Lonergan? I look forward to your embellished response, full of certain bias I am sure. That covers Lonergan in his defeat as still wonderful and Varcoe anything but. And before you say, they are different players; The reality is midfielders are not all the one type these days too. For instance Christensen and Varcoe dont play the same role either. I am the first to say I would like to see Varcoe's output improve, but not the simplistic way its explained here.

Put the ball out on a wing 30 metres away??......(a more Varcoe friendly scenario) let me guess Selwood magically arrives there first?

And I dont really care to understand the whingers mentality on here mate. If all you can see is black and white....great or shit....thats entirely your mindset and has nothing to do with mine. Lonergan has been a work in progress and some big guys take 6-7 years to develop. If you were on here bagging and ripping into him, sums you up really, and has nothing to do with Varcoe, and dropping footballs into your mental tennis court.

 

[Ninty]

This topic seems to be getting ridiculous.

 

[TheHonestyPolicy]

Yup agree. Close the thread up hopefully.

 

[catswhiskers]

Varcoe is easily the best outside player we have. Full stop. He is on a rising curve. Don't expect him to win every game for the side off his own boot but he will step up every now and again. Even Key forwards don't dominate each week - you need opportunity and the skill to make the most of the opportunities.

I want him in the side until ........well maybe Motlop the only other outside player we have usurps him, but we need one outsider in the side!!

 

[Silverado]

Varcoe is easily the best outside player we have. Full stop. He is on a rising curve. Don't expect him to win every game for the side off his own boot but he will step up every now and again. Even Key forwards don't dominate each week - you need opportunity and the skill to make the most of the opportunities.

I want him in the side until ........well maybe Motlop the only other outside player we have usurps him, but we need one outsider in the side!!

Wojack off the half back is plenty more usefull and I wouldn't consider him an in and under player, but knows when it's his turn to go, chases hard and often gets important tackles that result in us getting the ball by simply working harder, I see Trav give up the chase after 10 metres now more often than not because there is the possibility of contact coming his way

I watched some earlier games with Trav and he seemed to make better decisions with the ball than he currently does, i.e the chapman handball and a few others, and seemed to find it with more. He looks lost and down on confidence, never really looks to grit his teeth and just go for it like its his ball. he was a better player and more useful to the team when all he did was chase and tackle, the extra possesions and opportunities come as a biproduct of that hard work. the run down and chase of Buddy franklin springs to mind when I think of the way he used to be and when i watch him prance around now doing SFA it disapoints me

I dont know that the 2's is the solution for him, but if I was coaching a young fella like him (cleearly i'm not though) I'd be asking him to go back to basics give him 1 job to do for the game, and let the rest unfold natuarally for him

 

[catswhiskers]

Wojo v Varcoe is a no brainer for me.

Varcoe every time.

I rememember when Wojinski used to run the line and then shank the kick - twice a game and that was his contribution. He was ( and may be still is) also very prone to being tough when it doesn't count and giving away the crucial free.

Thankfully Wojo is a much better player now (thanks Bomber).

BUT lets not compare a younger player with a veteran - its never fair.

Varcoe is one of a very exciting bunch of youngsters who might help us enjoy the frothies for a few more years yet.

 

[Silverado]

Wojo v Varcoe is a no brainer for me.

Varcoe every time.

surely you aren't serious? given current form Wojo is providing much more than trav, perhaps not in possesion count but most certainly in his work off the ball and setting up and creating play

Varcoe is one of a very exciting bunch of youngsters who might help us enjoy the frothies for a few more years yet.

Trav is past the puppy stage now, he needs to be hitting his straps NOW and pushing some of the older heads for selection, its too late to push them once they're retired, he should be breathing down the throat of guys 28 - 29 yrs of age.
The batch of youngsters we should be accepting excitement from, but inconsistency and learning curves are Menzel, Duncan, Bundy etc for the next 1-2 yrs, not a guy who is well entrenched in the system for quite a few years now.

heres to the froffies though

 

[Ninty]

Just to think he did this a couple of weeks ago...

[youtube]fwcD7uza1oo[/youtube]

He's always running like that, and that's why he isn't going to be dropped.

 

[Partridge]

Yes of course mate. Pick a convenient scenario to prove your point. Thanks for defining bias for me.
Put the ball between Selwood and I agree the admired Lonergan? I look forward to your embellished response, full of certain bias I am sure. That covers Lonergan in his defeat as still wonderful and Varcoe anything but. And before you say, they are different players; The reality is midfielders are not all the one type these days too. For instance Christensen and Varcoe dont play the same role either. I am the first to say I would like to see Varcoe's output improve, but not the simplistic way its explained here.

Put the ball out on a wing 30 metres away??......(a more Varcoe friendly scenario) let me guess Selwood magically arrives there first?

And I dont really care to understand the whingers mentality on here mate. If all you can see is black and white....great or shit....thats entirely your mindset and has nothing to do with mine. Lonergan has been a work in progress and some big guys take 6-7 years to develop. If you were on here bagging and ripping into him, sums you up really, and has nothing to do with Varcoe, and dropping footballs into your mental tennis court.

If you "dont really care to understand the whingers mentality on here", why are you offering such kind and polite criticism of my opinion? At the risk of cluttering up my mental tennis court I'll offer further explanation.

The issue that some of us have here with Varcoe is he is not putting his head over the ball when the situation calls for him to do so. It does not mean he has to play like Selwood, or that he should be Max Rooke. It's nothing unique to Varcoe, if it was any other player there would be others voicing the same concern. If his role is to cruise the wings and provide dash and speedy running (which he is absolutely capable of, and has demonstrated brilliantly in patches against Fremantle and Hawthorn) that's fine too.

The problem is though, if you have even one player who won't go in when it's called for, and the opposition does, you could have a weakness in a critical moment. That could cost us a game. That is what we are worried about.

I realise wanting players to go and get the ball rather than waiting for it is biased also. You'll just need to deal with the other dissidents now.

 

[vinum coupe]

Wojack off the half back is plenty more usefull and I wouldn't consider him an in and under player, but knows when it's his turn to go, chases hard and often gets important tackles that result in us getting the ball by simply working harder, I see Trav give up the chase after 10 metres now more often than not because there is the possibility of contact coming his way

I can't agree there.

 

[maxy87]

His tackle on Goldsack was ferocious. I have seen him give away some chases bit I think that's more a decision he's made that it's probably beyond him to catch the player in question and opts to stop and venture back to a zone where he needs to be to become part of a counter attack or something to that effect. Whether it's giving up I'm not sure and it's also a matter of speculation that the coaching staff think this is an aspect of his game that needs work. As the season wears on and he builds fitness and confidence I reckon he'll become more involved than he has been so far which is what I was getting at earlier

 

[TheHonestyPolicy]

If you "dont really care to understand the whingers mentality on here", why are you offering such kind and polite criticism of my opinion? At the risk of cluttering up my mental tennis court I'll offer further explanation.

The issue that some of us have here with Varcoe is he is not putting his head over the ball when the situation calls for him to do so. It does not mean he has to play like Selwood, or that he should be Max Rooke. It's nothing unique to Varcoe, if it was any other player there would be others voicing the same concern. If his role is to cruise the wings and provide dash and speedy running (which he is absolutely capable of, and has demonstrated brilliantly in patches against Fremantle and Hawthorn) that's fine too.

The problem is though, if you have even one player who won't go in when it's called for, and the opposition does, you could have a weakness in a critical moment. That could cost us a game. That is what we are worried about.

I realise wanting players to go and get the ball rather than waiting for it is biased also. You'll just need to deal with the other dissidents now.

Yeah sure, I am happy to give an opinion and why do you want me to get to know you better? I am not a negative person/whinger by nature is my point so I am happy steering away from understanding it better. Ok?

The mental tennis court analogy was probably very lame, but there's lots of back and forth here.

Similar to you, I will just ignore your entire post and points you make and just post this. Maybe you could try the little dance at the end too....

Food for thought after a valium; If you have one player not pulling their weight in the modern game, not doing what you suggest, you will surely lose games. Its such a fine line. We have played in a number of close ones this year. IF we were carrying someone, they would be dropped. Simple. We are 7-0. Weird huh? These dumb new coaches we have? We have a guy in the team who simply wont follow the team rules, wont put his head over the ball, is gutless and weak, and yet here we are. The whole sides is on board and we are winning games and for some unknown reason these dumb new coaches cant see this weak prick playing in our team????

As they say in the Rocky Horror Show. Its Astounding!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[David the Cat]

Wojack off the half back is plenty more usefull and I wouldn't consider him an in and under player, but knows when it's his turn to go, chases hard and often gets important tackles that result in us getting the ball by simply working harder, I see Trav give up the chase after 10 metres now more often than not because there is the possibility of contact coming his way



What nonsense!

This thread has now reached the absurd. Totally unfounded and subjective assessments about a players courage are not required, and in this case, laughable in the extreme.

I would have thought the thread has run its course.

 

[Partridge]

Food for thought after a valium; If you have one player not pulling their weight in the modern game, not doing what you suggest, you will surely lose games. Its such a fine line. We have played in a number of close ones this year. IF we were carrying someone, they would be dropped. Simple. We are 7-0. Weird huh? These dumb new coaches we have? We have a guy in the team who simply wont follow the team rules, wont put his head over the ball, is gutless and weak, and yet here we are. The whole sides is on board and we are winning games and for some unknown reason these dumb new coaches cant see this weak prick playing in our team????

Absolutely it's such a fine line. Even Thompson said it, you have to do an awful lot of things right to win a game of football, and to win 7 straight against some high quality opposition even moreso.

One simple question - do you think Varcoe was playing better last season or now? Quite a few supporters thought he only had to take one final step to become a genuine superstar. I saw him against Carlton in the final practice match before the season and he was electrifying. Pinpoint disposal, relentless running, and he was bulldozing his way through packs coming out with the ball. Simply awesome.

I'm really curious to know and I'm sure others are what's happened since. Because it hasn't been the same player. Maybe it'll click this week.

 

[TheHonestyPolicy]

Absolutely it's such a fine line. Even Thompson said it, you have to do an awful lot of things right to win a game of football, and to win 7 straight against some high quality opposition even moreso.

One simple question - do you think Varcoe was playing better last season or now? Quite a few supporters thought he only had to take one final step to become a genuine superstar. I saw him against Carlton in the final practice match before the season and he was electrifying. Pinpoint disposal, relentless running, and he was bulldozing his way through packs coming out with the ball. Simply awesome.

I'm really curious to know and I'm sure others are what's happened since. Because it hasn't been the same player. Maybe it'll click this week.

To be honest I dont like to compare seasons in the sense that game plans change. Players' roles can change, we have new coaches and the tactics other sides use against us will also alter accordingly. Fitness varies too.

No one has suggested however he is at his best. I dont anyway. I want him to improve. Everyone who has watched Trav over time knows he is not a soft player or person. I think as supporters its our duty to support guys getting picked. Everyone has a view point, but the really slanderous stuff should be left to opposition supporters I believe. This doesnt mean guys wont play poorly, get dropped, need a wake up call and all the rest, all understood.

I think Newman made a good point about Bobby Davis. He got people to play for him and not in spite of him. In other words he didnt use abusive negative remarks and emotional black mail to fire up the players. I guess after hearing that this week I am certainly against those sort of tactics being used on our own players by our own supporters.

By the way its a lovely effort cutting up my post like that for your own purposes. You have to laugh.
Sorry mate, just not into the way you talk about the players at all. Vale Bobby Davis!

 

[SJ]

Think we are going around in circles now.

As for the handpass to Chapman, I haven't seen the replay so don't know what it looked like on television, but there was no one else in front of Varcoe, so it was either take the risk and blaze away from 60 or take the risk and get a nice one-two or similar with Chapman. Yes it didn't come off but it was not a clear error.

Anyway thread done.