Vegan and Vegetarian Diets

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Andre said:
Vegans are hypocrites. Invite any over and they won't eat meat and want a non-meat option, but have yet to encounter a single one who holding an event who puts out meat for the non-vegans.
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i am not a vegan.

you appear quite intolerant of others.

if i enjoy their company putting yourself out a little in meal preparation does not seem a big ask.
 
PoppedCorn said:
I see the point and think it's a good one
The expect to be fed vegan or Vegie food only
Its only fair meat eaters should expect the same in return and be given meat
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Agreed.
It comes down to both parties respecting each other's decision.
Mind you, if I had a vegan over for dinner they'd be eating fried potatoe, carrot and broccoli whilst I eat that + a steak lol (largely because that is my entire cooking repertoire)
 

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Deliverance said:
Got a chick on my missus' FB feed who's a vegan and posts s**t about veganism and animal welfare constantly. But at the same time posts herself riding her horse and forcing her dog do dog competitions. o_O
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I get what you're saying, but at the same time, at least the animals are being kept active. There's soo many dogs, horses and just pets in general that live very boring, crap lives, and whose owners never take them for walks, etc. Dogs and horses are very social and active animals, just like humans.
 
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Her vegan kid is 4, the vego is 7
 
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showdownhero said:
Children are often admitted to hospital suffering a litany of illnesses from being subjected to a vegan diet.
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I'd like to agree, but
- Causation =/= correlation
- One can assume many non-vegetarian diet based children are admitted to hospital due to nutritional problems
- there's no statistical evidence that a vege child is more likely to be admitted to hospital for nutritional reasons
- there is evidence to suggest that a vege child can be every bit as healthy as their non vege counterparts
 
Vegan/vegetarian diets need to be supplemented to cover the nutrients inherently deficient in such diets. I have an issue with parents putting their children on such diets against their will. Smaller children have limited gastric capacity and failure to thrive can be a real concern.

Adults can do whatever they want to their body. But the kids don't get to decide and will suffer the consequences if their parents don't know what they're doing.

The above can be applied to any s**t diet. Vegan/vegetarian diets are just inherently s**t.

Edit. Natural selection I suppose, problems like B12 deficiency anaemia and low bone density don't have significant obviously identifiable acute symptoms too ... so much can be avoided with a nice delicious piece of meat.
 
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WakeUpPies said:
Vegan/vegetarian diets need to be supplemented to cover the nutrients inherently deficient in such diets. I have an issue with parents putting their children on such diets against their will. Smaller children have limited gastric capacity and failure to thrive can be a real concern.

Adults can do whatever they want to their body. But the kids don't get to decide and will suffer the consequences if their parents don't know what they're doing.

The above can be applied to any s**t diet. Vegan/vegetarian diets are just inherently s**t.

Edit. Natural selection I suppose, problems like B12 deficiency anaemia and low bone density don't have significant obviously identifiable acute symptoms too ... so much can be avoided with a nice delicious piece of meat.
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Oh please, if you're going to contribute to a discussion at least have some knowledge first.

From "Pediatrics in Review: an official journal of the American Academy of Pediatrics"

Some people believe that patients following vegan or vegetarian diets suffer from nutritional deficiencies. Although there have been case reports of children failing to thrive or developing cobalamin deficiency on vegan diets, these are rare exceptions. Multiple experts have concluded independently that vegan diets can be followed safely by infants and children without compromise of nutrition or growth and with some notable health benefits. Pediatricians working with vegan families must ensure that the parents understand the special nutritional needs of children at different developmental stages and assist them in meeting those needs within the …
 
WakeUpPies said:
Did you even read the review you quoted? I suggest you work on your reading comprehension further before contributing to this discussion.

And by the way ...

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I don't think he did, since it's a paid paper and he quoted from the free text...
 
WakeUpPies said:
Did you even read the review you quoted? I suggest you work on your reading comprehension further before contributing to this discussion.

And by the way ...
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Of course I did. What are your issues with it?

In summary there are no inherent downsides to a vegan diet and are in fact many advantages. It notes the risks of a vegan diet (some possible nutrient deficiencies if variety is not achieved, and vit b12).

When compared to the risks of a meat diet which includes increased risks of obesity, heart disease, stroke, diabetes, hypertension, cancer and erectile dysfunction, I know which set I prefer.
 

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Look, I have no interest in arguing with you. Veganism is more like a religion than a diet. All I will say is the:

1. the very review you quoted is all about the necessary dietary steps you must take to avoid the pitfalls of a diet inherently low or deficient in iron, zinc, B12, calcium ...

2. your comment about the risks of a meat rich diet tells me all I need to know about your background knowledge.

3. I don't care what Nate Diaz does because that's just an anecdote. N = 1. If we do want to continue down that route, what about all the rest of the elite athletes in the world that are not vegans. It's a pointless argument.

/end
 
Aeglos said:
I'd like to agree, but
- Causation =/= correlation
- One can assume many non-vegetarian diet based children are admitted to hospital due to nutritional problems
- there's no statistical evidence that a vege child is more likely to be admitted to hospital for nutritional reasons
- there is evidence to suggest that a vege child can be every bit as healthy as their non vege counterparts
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Unless vegan's are undergoing a rigorous supplementation program they are at huge risk of some serious health issues. That is an undisputed fact.

Vegan children are at even greater risk. Also an undisputed fact.
 
showdownhero said:
Unless vegan's are undergoing a rigorous supplementation program they are at huge risk of some serious health issues. That is an undisputed fact.

Vegan children are at even greater risk. Also an undisputed fact.
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Typically a fact is backed by some kind of irrefutable evidence . . .
The only published study I could find states that there are no health risks associated with a vegan diet provided it's done in consultation with a physician (GP)
 
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Aeglos said:
You just beat my edit haha.
I rate vegans on par with scientologists and Dave Castro, but there isn't exactly a lot of definitive evidence either way to suggest a blanket statement that one is better than the other (veg vs omni)
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I'm actually not sure if you're being serious? There's encyclopedias worth of information documenting the health risks associated with veganism if not supported by a rigorous supplementation program.
 
It seems what you're looking for is a study to show vegans are less healthy than omnivores, just because that study doesn't exist doesn't make veganism good for you.

If your diet requires a doctors supervision and needs to supplemented with a cupboard full of vitamins and minerals (which may or may not be absorbed properly) then I think your diet is rubbish.
 
So what you're saying is that it's a schrodinger's cat situation?
 
showdownhero said:
No
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How is it not?
"Just because the study doesn't exist doesn't mean veganism is good for you"
Until such a study exists it is exactly like Shrodiger's cat - veganism is both better, and worse for you
 
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