News & Events Vegan protests shut down Melbourne's CBD - Have protests gone too far?

Sausages

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Lethality, I was going to respond to each of your various quotes, but felt a better way was to respond more broadly.

Dude, do us all a favour and DO SOME ******* RESEARCH.

Here's a tip - the ONLY THING you've linked is a FOX NEWS REPORT. You've SAID something about the Australian Lot Feeders Association, but not LINKED anything.

News reports are not research. If you submit it as a reference source in ANY ACADEMIC REPORT, your university and peer reviewers would laugh long and hard.

And before you come at me, consider this:

I vote Green. Have been for 3 decades. I believe that the anthropocentric climate issue is REAL and URGENT.

But, I'm defending Craven, who you're attacking, because you are just posting rubbish. Unsubstantiated rubbish.
 

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Lethality

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Then why point the finger at me, a farmer, about LE?
What is the point in LE companies being deliberately cruel to an animal?
Financially it is suicide as LE operators are paid on live animals on delivery that fit the specific health and welfare requirements of the contract not free on board.
Again, LE mortality rates are less than on farm.

You're swallowing the kool aid without doing any real research.
I'm not blaming you, this isn't a finger pointing exercise on my part. Live export was just one example of where we are neglecting animal welfare.

Comparing mortality rates between live export and on farming is misleading, since animals live such a small percentage of their lives in transport.
 

Sausages

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I'm not blaming you, this isn't a finger pointing exercise on my part. Live export was just one example of where we are neglecting animal welfare.

Comparing mortality rates between live export and on farming is misleading, since animals live such a small percentage of their lives in transport.
When you quote someone's post and then introduce additional accusations on topics that are related but not specifically within the purview of the target ....yeah dude, that's finger pointing.

Hate to break it to you.

You're still failing to address the glaring omission in anything you add with research.

I think it's safe to assume you are happy being an ignorant agent provocateur with a limited view of the issues at hand.
 

Lethality

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When you quote someone's post and then introduce additional accusations on topics that are related but not specifically within the purview of the target ....yeah dude, that's finger pointing.

Hate to break it to you.

You're still failing to address the glaring omission in anything you add with research.

I think it's safe to assume you are happy being an ignorant agent provocateur with a limited view of the issues at hand.
It's the opposite of finger pointing, I'm not specificying farmers as opposed to exporters, it's the meat industry as a whole, which is the thread topic.
 
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No, no it wasn't.
They want the cessation of all animal based agriculture.
Grass-fed
Feedlotting
Commercial fishing
etc. etc.
ANYTHING which involves an animal dying.
Can't wait till the vegans come down harbour and start terrorising fisherman.
They will get their arses handed to them.
 

WA ROO

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No, no it wasn't.
They want the cessation of all animal based agriculture.
Grass-fed
Feedlotting
Commercial fishing
etc. etc.
ANYTHING which involves an animal dying.
This is the end goal
Talk to a vegan for more the 3 minutes ands they will tell you that this will
End world hunger
Get rid of heart disease,stroke and altzheimers
Create world peace
Stop climate change
We all get a unicorn that farts rainbows
 
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Comparing mortality rates between live export and on farming is misleading, since animals live such a small percentage of their lives in transport.
Again, you don't know what you are talking about.
The LE mortality rates begin from when they are purchased, either from a saleyard or from an on-farm transaction.
Remember, the very vast majority of animals have never been trucked anywhere before their sale and have probably only been mustered into a yard once or twice in their lives.
LE purchased animals get trucked to a feedlot where they are gradually introduced, over a period of weeks, to the pellet ration which they will be fed on their journey.
They are yarded and inspected/treated for any disease and external/internal parasites on at least 2 occasions by independent Vets.
They are then trucked to holding yards near the port.
Then they are re-loaded and trucked, unloaded, and put onto the boats.
Then they have a 14 day, on average for sheep, journey to their destination.
Then they are unloaded, checked for compliance to the contract conditions and counted.
All of these transporting and yarding requirements is where animals, unfortunately, get hurt.

Yet, despite all of this, 98% arrive unharmed and meet the conditions of the contract.
More animals die in the paddock at home from poisoning, snake-bite, feral animal attacks, sickness and natural causes than what happens during a LE episode.

I would really, really appreciate it if you would stop talking uninformed rubbish.
 

Lethality

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Again, you don't know what you are talking about.
The LE mortality rates begin from when they are purchased
And it's still not an an honest comparison to livestock that is not in live export, if you wanted to use this statistic to reflect the conditions the animals are kept in. Horse racing advocates make the same kind of misleading comparison, arguing the safety of horse racing because a horse is more likely to die in a paddock than on the track. This line of apologetics isn't new.
 
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And it's still not an an honest comparison to livestock that is not in live export, if you wanted to use this statistic to reflect the conditions the animals are kept in. Horse racing advocates make the same kind of misleading comparison, arguing the safety of horse racing because a horse is more likely to die in a paddock than on the track. This line of apologetics isn't new.
Explain then how it is not honest.
I have given you the entire process of LE and the relevant mortality rates between it and livestock grazing in a paddock.
As stated before by Sausages , you argue with zero verifiable input, just casual phraseology based on nothing.
 

Lethality

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This is the end goal
Talk to a vegan for more the 3 minutes ands they will tell you that this will
End world hunger
Get rid of heart disease,stroke and altzheimers
Create world peace
Stop climate change
We all get a unicorn that farts rainbows
Would you settle for:

Less hunger
Less heart disease, stroke and alzheimers
A less violent world
A significant impact on climate change
Fewer cows farting methane?
 

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I already did, you're comparing two vastly different time periods, and stages in the life cycle of the animals.
Now you are, again, being deliberately disingenuous.
It has NOTHING to do with the time period, it has EVERYTHING to do with the amount animals are handled.
Sorry, but I am done arguing with someone who has zero idea and continues to perpetuate bullshit.
 

Lethality

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Now you are, again, being deliberately disingenuous.
It has NOTHING to do with the time period, it has EVERYTHING to do with the amount animals are handled.
Sorry, but I am done arguing with someone who has zero idea and continues to perpetuate bullshit.
Of course it has to do with time, animals observed over a longer period of time are more likely to die than animals observed over a shorter period. There's also the matter of where the animal is in its life cycle. Older, sick animals aren't a commodity and won't be dying in live transport, or on the racetrack, to use the other dishonest comparison I referred to earlier.
 

Sausages

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Would you settle for:

Less hunger
Less heart disease, stroke and alzheimers
A less violent world
A significant impact on climate change
Fewer cows farting methane?
Let's pretend you had a magic wand that you could wave, and all the meat production in the world ended right now.

Less hunger - how?
Less heart disease, stroke, alzheimers - how?
A less violent world - how?
A significant impact on climate change - how?
Fewer cows farting methane? - how?

You are making broad statements here and presenting NOTHING to substantiate them. Note, I'm not SPECIFICALLY saying I disagree with you - I'm saying to MAKE THOSE CLAIMS YOU NEED TO PROVIDE EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT THEM.

You are offering your OPINIONS AS FACT and wondering why you aren't getting anywhere.

GO DO SOME RESEARCH....PROPER ACADEMIC RESEARCH, not Fox News articles ffs. Not Vegan Weekly either. PROPER ACADEMIC JOURNALS.

Read them. Read another. And another. FORMULATE A POSITION FROM A VARIETY OF SOURCES.

THEN, start to argue a case.

And if that's too hard, which for the vast majority of people it is, then leave the opinions at the door and approach topics about which you know very little with an open mind at the least - rather than just latch on to something you've heard said and think it sounds reasonable. That's what stupid people do. And there's enough of them in the world already.
 
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Of course it has to do with time, animals observed over a longer period of time are more likely to die than animals observed over a shorter period. There's also the matter of where the animal is in its life cycle. Older, sick animals aren't a commodity and won't be dying in live transport, or on the racetrack, to use the other dishonest comparison I referred to earlier.
You have no idea about farming whatsoever.
Like I said, I'm done.

You are as big a waste of time on this subject as you are on every other topic you attempt to debate on this entire site.
There is something not quite right with you and I encourage you to get it checked out.
 

Smeg Head

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This is the end goal
Talk to a vegan for more the 3 minutes ands they will tell you that this will
End world hunger
Get rid of heart disease,stroke and altzheimers
Create world peace
Stop climate change
We all get a unicorn that farts rainbows
Most of those things could be solved by killing 3 Billion people though. Planet is overpopulated.
 

Lethality

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Lethality

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You have no idea about farming whatsoever.
Like I said, I'm done.

You are as big a waste of time on this subject as you are on every other topic you attempt to debate on this entire site.
There is something not quite right with you and I encourage you to get it checked out.
You're the poster of the two of us who is losing their cool. I'm arguing from logic and sources.
 

Sausages

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Fewer mouths to feed obviously.


Meat linked to all 3.



We'd be killing fewer animals.



Less deforestation for grazing and for grain



Fewer cows means less farting, means less methane.

All of this is fairly obvious.
Am I not speaking English?

Again, you are offering OPINIONS AS FACT.

In a Court of Law, eyewitness testimony is given a pretty high rating.
In the Court of Science, eyewitness testimony ranks very very low.

Therefore, saying "All of this is fairly obvious" doesn't mean jack shit. You can say that until you're blue in the face but without facts to back it up, you are just parroting a diatribe of no value.

You will change no minds, you will broker no policy, you will achieve no shift of consciousness. You will parade around in the street, with a placard, upsetting other people who feel differently.....and wonder why the world is still on fire.
 

Lethality

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Am I not speaking English?

Again, you are offering OPINIONS AS FACT.

In a Court of Law, eyewitness testimony is given a pretty high rating.
In the Court of Science, eyewitness testimony ranks very very low.

Therefore, saying "All of this is fairly obvious" doesn't mean jack shit. You can say that until you're blue in the face but without facts to back it up, you are just parroting a diatribe of no value.

You will change no minds, you will broker no policy, you will achieve no shift of consciousness. You will parade around in the street, with a placard, upsetting other people who feel differently.....and wonder why the world is still on fire.
lol I lost it at Court of Law. This is a forum, sir. And all my claims are axiomatic, you can google them if you really need evidence.
 

Sausages

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lol I lost it at Court of Law. This is a forum, sir. And all my claims are axiomatic, you can google them if you really need evidence.
Suggesting that something is axiomatic is fraught with a great many dangers - there are very very few things in the world which are self evident truths. And if you're linking Fox News articles and feel you are thus in possession of self evident truths, I can understand instantly where the problem is.
 

Lethality

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Suggesting that something is axiomatic is fraught with a great many dangers - there are very very few things in the world which are self evident truths. And if you're linking Fox News articles and feel you are thus in possession of self evident truths, I can understand instantly where the problem is.
I'm pretty sure fewer cows leading to less methane would be self-evident.
Less slaughter of animals leading to less violence is even beyond that; it's virtually the same thing.
These aren't the kind of statements you should require evidence for, but if you genuinely do, there's always Google.
 
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