VFL flags don't count.

[D_One]

Using your logic D_One then Collingwood's 1990 flag outweighs Hawthorn's 1989 one or their 1988 or Carlton's 1987??

Nevermind that the EXACT same 14 teams contested those seasons. Please explain the difference because i can't see it!!

Furthermore, you can't just pick a random year like 1981 and say that it's not as good as a flag in 1997. It doesn't work that way. That would be like saying Port's 2004 flag doesn't compare to whoever wins the 2011 flag because Gold Coast weren't in it in 2004! Yes, i acknowledge that some flags in bygone eras were won in strange circumstances due to WWI and WWII etc, but they still count so get over it. Same applied in every football league in Australia.

Face facts people.....Port, Crows, WCE, Freo and Bris joined the VFL/AFL. History does not reset. No different to Burnley joining the Premier League for the first time didn't reset that leagues history or Toronto Raptors joining the NBA reset all of the previous titles won by other sides.

I agree not all flags are equal. Because of this …

1914 Champions of Australia Final

Port Adelaide	9–16	(70)  
Carlton 	5-6	(36)

Port Adelaide's 1914 SANFL flag > Carlton's 1914 VFL flag

Now as an AFL club why should you be able to count your 1914 state league flag but we cannot count our superior 1914 state league flag?

 

[clogwearer]

The 1981 VFL competition was a state league comprised of 12 Victorian based team.

The 1997 AFL competition was a national league comprised of subset of 10 Victorian based former VFL teams, one former SANFL team, a Sydney based relocated VFL team from 1981, a merged entity based in Brisbane, an artificial entity based in Perth and two pseudo-state teams from SA and WA.

Over a 16 period the 12 team VFL state league morphed into a completely new and different 16 team national league.

Saying the 1981 VFL competition is the same as the 1997 AFL competition is folly. Saying the 4 team 1916 VFL flag is equivalent to 2009 AFL flag is absolute moron-speak.

You're right, and in fact I'd go a step or two further. In 1897 it wasn't even the same game being played. The rules were different, ground markings were different and team uniforms were different.

FFS I just checked and the guys in the 1897 Essendon team even had different NAMES!

I'll be writing a stern letter to the AFL and demanding they change the name of this modern game to something else because it doesn't even remotely resemble football of a century ago. it'll be the best penn...er, 20 cent...er, 30 ce..no wait. It'll be the best 43 c...50? What's the cost of a stamp in Australia these days? Christ, the price has changed so much from the good old days, I can't believe they even still call them stamps!!!!

 

[D_One]

You're right, and in fact I'd go a step or two further. In 1897 it wasn't even the same game being played. The rules were different, ground markings were different and team uniforms were different.

FFS I just checked and the guys in the 1897 Essendon team even had different NAMES!

I'll be writing a stern letter to the AFL and demanding they change the name of this modern game to something else because it doesn't even remotely resemble football of a century ago. it'll be the best penn...er, 20 cent...er, 30 ce..no wait. It'll be the best 43 c...50? What's the cost of a stamp in Australia these days? Christ, the price has changed so much from the good old days, I can't believe they even still call them stamps!!!!

It's good that you agree. The current AFL competition has been going from 1997 to 2010. And when the GCFC join next year it will be a completely new and different competition … for one year only.

 

[clogwearer]

It's good that you agree. The current AFL competition has been going from 1997 to 2010. And when the GCFC join next year it will be a completely new and different competition … for one year only.

Spot on. And I can assume the AFL will be getting an angry letter from you also regarding their misappropriation of the name of our great game. Let the campaign commence.

 

[Bayer_]

Spot on. And I can assume the AFL will be getting an angry letter from you also regarding their misappropriation of the name of our great game. Let the campaign commence.

Pwning the flogs as ever Clogs.

If it weren't for you, I'd be calling for Essendon supporters to be exterminated.

 

[D_One]

Spot on. And I can assume the AFL will be getting an angry letter from you also regarding their misappropriation of the name of our great game. Let the campaign commence.

Hand delivered … to Gomez's bedroom … stapled to a Horse's Head. I'm sure he'll get the message.

 

[clogwearer]

Pwning the flogs as ever Clogs.

If it weren't for you, I'd be calling for Essendon supporters to be exterminated.

Too kind. I oughta be exterminated before any of the other Essendon flogs for bringing the bay into repute.

 

[Monkey King]

Now as an AFL club why should you be able to count your 1914 state league flag but we cannot count our superior 1914 state league flag?

Simple... because the league that both club's now play in offered up one premiership cup in 1914 and it was won by Carlton. Therefore the league would obviously rightly record Carlton as their 1914 Premiers.

It's kinda like the Olympics; modern participation rates and events competed in are vastly different compared to earlier games... yet an Olympic medal is still an Olympic medal. Should you wish to have an opinion that a modern medal is harder to win than one 80 years ago, that's fine, but disputing the fact they are both indeed Olympic medals is foolish.

 

[D_One]

Simple... because the league that both club's now play in offered up one premiership cup in 1914 and it was won by Carlton. Therefore the league would obviously rightly record Carlton as their 1914 Premiers.

It's kinda like the Olympics; modern participation rates and events competed in are vastly different compared to earlier games... yet an Olympic medal is still an Olympic medal. Should you wish to have an opinion that a modern medal is harder to win than one 80 years ago, that's fine, but disputing the fact they are both indeed Olympic medals is foolish.

But the IOC has always been the International Olympic Committee and an IOC medal is an IOC medal … and a Victorian Olympic Committee medal is not quite the same.

 

[Monkey King]

But the IOC has always been the International Olympic Committee and an IOC medal is an IOC medal … and a Victorian Olympic Committee medal is not quite the same.

I never knew the importance of letters until encountering Port Adelaide supporters. It seems you guys can change your club name, colours, players, supporters, medals and even have an entity in the SANFL that retains all these and claims equal share to your club's entire history and identity; yet you remain the same club courtesy of an M here and and Inc there.

Yet despite the VFL/AFL remaining exactly the same between the 89' & 90' seasons, it is suddenly a brand new competition because it changed a single letter.

Whether you like it or not - and obviously you don't - the AFL has staged an annual competition for a premiership cup continuously for more than 100 years. Your club has won one of those cups.

 

[Bayer_]

^^^ For once a Carltank supporter speaketh the truth.

 

[D_One]

I never knew the importance of letters until encountering Port Adelaide supporters. It seems you guys can change your club name, colours, players, supporters, medals and even have an entity in the SANFL that retains all these and claims equal share to your club's entire history and identity; yet you remain the same club courtesy of an M here and and Inc there.

Yet despite the VFL/AFL remaining exactly the same between the 89' & 90' seasons, it is suddenly a brand new competition because it changed a single letter.

Whether you like it or not - and obviously you don't - the AFL has staged an annual competition for a premiership cup continuously for more than 100 years. Your club has won one of those cups.

We have never changed out clubs name.

The VFL league in 1981 is not the same as the league we entered in 1997. Chalk and Cheese. Somewhere between these dates a state league morphed into a national league. When did the state league become a national league? 1982 when the Swans moved to Sydney? 1987 when the Brisbane Bears and West Coast joined? 1990 when the name officially came into use? 1991 when the Camry Crows entered? 1994 when Freo joined?

Now if you are gonna count your state league flags we have the full right to count ours.

Total Senior Premierships Won by all the AFL clubs

Port Adelaide - Total 35 - 5 SAFA, 4 SAFL, 25 SANFL, 1 AFL
Essendon - Total 20 - 4 VFA, 14 VFL, 2 AFL
Carlton - Total 18 - 2 VFA, 15 VFL, 1 AFL
Collingwood - Total 15 - 1 VFA, 13 VFL, 1 AFL
Geelong - Total 15 - 7 VFA, 6 VFL, 2 AFL
Melbourne - Total 12 - 12 VFL
Richmond - Total 12 - 2 VFA, 10 VFL
Nth Melb - Total 10 - 6 VFA, 2 VFL, 2 AFL
Hawthorn - Total 10 - 8 VFL, 2 AFL
Ftscry/Wstn Bdogs - Total 10 - 9 VFA, 1 VFL
Sydney/Sth Melb - Total 9 - 5 VFA, 3 VFL, 1 AFL
West Coast - Total 3 - 3 AFL
Brisbane Lions - Total 3 - 3 AFL
Adelaide - Total 2 - 2 AFL
St Kilda - Total 1 - 1 VFL
Fremantle - Total 0 - 0 AFL

I hope that clears it up.

 

[clogwearer]

We have never changed out clubs name.

100% correct. And those 175,000 SANFL flags won by the Port Adelaide Power stand, because you were always the Power...what the hell is a magpie anyway? And you always had teal in your colours. And the SANFL is really just an extension of the AFl. Legitimate.

When did the state league become a national league? 1982 when the Swans moved to Sydney? 1987 when the Brisbane Bears and West Coast joined? 1990 when the name officially came into use? 1991 when the Camry Crows entered? 1994 when Freo joined?

D_IMeantToSay35....if you're not even sure of the point of delineation, how are the rest of us plebs supposed to know where to mark the point of change?

 

[Schmucta]

I never knew the importance of letters until encountering Port Adelaide supporters. It seems you guys can change your club name, colours, players, supporters, medals and even have an entity in the SANFL that retains all these and claims equal share to your club's entire history and identity; yet you remain the same club courtesy of an M here and and Inc there.

Yet despite the VFL/AFL remaining exactly the same between the 89' & 90' seasons, it is suddenly a brand new competition because it changed a single letter.

Whether you like it or not - and obviously you don't - the AFL has staged an annual competition for a premiership cup continuously for more than 100 years. Your club has won one of those cups.

This post right here should be framed.

Absolute Brillance.

 

[D_One]

100% correct. And those 175,000 SANFL flags won by the Port Adelaide Power stand, because you were always the Power...what the hell is a magpie anyway? And you always had teal in your colours. And the SANFL is really just an extension of the AFl. Legitimate.



D_IMeantToSay35....if you're not even sure of the point of delineation, how are the rest of us plebs supposed to know where to mark the point of change?

The point of delineation is quite obvious. It's when the state league realised it was no longer a state league and renamed itself to the AFL. Therefore all previous state league flags were reduced to that status.

BTW have you always been called the Bombers?? Even way back in 1870's? You know, back when Wilbur and Orville were wearing short pants???

 

[Monkey King]

We have never changed out clubs name.

Sure you have. Port Adelaide Power did not exist in any competition in Australia prior to 1997. How about the rest of those points though... I suppose it's better you just ignore the lot hey?

Now if you are gonna count your state league flags we have the full right to count ours.

Sure you do. TBH I don't see a problem in Port fans wanting to count all the senior flags their club has won. And I think it's fair enough if you guys consider your club as competing for its 30th whatever senior flag in 2010.

However, when the competition in which you now play tallies up the figures from the 100+ premiership cups they've offered up over the years, don't be disappointed to see Carlton as having won 16 of them and Port 1.

How you wish to value those flags is a personal consideration, not an official one, but as an ardent VFL/AFL follower myself, I can tell you that the difference in competition between say 1987 and 1990 was negligible.

Total Senior Premierships Won by all the AFL clubs

I hope that clears it up.

LMAO that you think your contrived table offers clarity. All you did was confirm how confused and rigid you are. If someone who had never followed the game ran off your table they'd be pretty confused to say the least. SAFA, SAFL, SANFL, VFL, AFL... that's an awful lot of distinction for two footy leagues.

 

[masterblaster94]

Allright guyz think of it this way,

To all the port, Sydney, Lions and Eagles fans u guyz won ur flags in 01-03,04, 05 and 06
In hundred years time if Footy goes national or even international then obviously teams will hav different names and gamestyle will be totally different!!! The premiership will be some wat harder to win.
But does that mean that the flags u won hundred yrs ago shouldn't be credited or even considered as a premiership

 

[TheGoatBaron]

Allright guyz think of it this way,

To all the port and Sydney fans u guyz won ur flags in 04 and 05.
In hundred years time if Footy goes national or even international then obviously teams will hav different names and gamestyle will be totally different!!! The premiership will be some wat harder to win.
But does that mean that the flags u won hundred yrs ago shouldn't be credited or even considered as a premiership

And 09, 18, 33. Different circumstances for us, so dont try and pull that one on us. South Melbourne/Sydney Swans = 1 club with 1 history.

 

[D_One]

Sure you do. TBH I don't see a problem in Port fans wanting to count all the senior flags their club has won. And I think it's fair enough if you guys consider your club as competing for its 30th whatever senior flag in 2010.

However, when the competition in which you now play tallies up the figures from the 100+ premiership cups they've offered up over the years, don't be disappointed to see Carlton as having won 16 of them and Port 1.

It's OK I've also tallied up the AFL flags. Here they are ...

Total AFL Premierships

West Coast - Total 3
Brisbane Lions - Total 3
Essendon - Total 2
Geelong - Total 2
Hawthorn - Total 2
Nth Melb - Total 2
Port Adelaide - Total 1
Carlton - Total 1
Collingwood - Total 1
Sydney - Total 1
Camry Crows - Total 0 (However they have 2 Bradbury Cups on the shelf)


I hope that clears it up.

 

[Monkey King]

It's OK I've also tallied up the AFL flags. Here they are ...

I hope that clears it up.

Not really mate... perhaps you can provide links to verify the premiership tables you've presented. Given that they starkly contradict the official SANFL and AFL records, one might be mistaken for thinking it's all just a figment of your imagination...

oh, hang on a minute

 

[Here2tellyouwhy]

Surely because the VFL is the AFL and all records count etc etc, only a factor system can be fair when comparing older clubs (VFL) to more recent clubs post VFL.

ie.....

West Coast/Brisbane have a factor of 7 years per flag. 3 flags in 21 years.

St Kilda a factor of 137 and Fremantle still giving it a go.

The pies and Dons even Carltank have pretty good scores too.

Sydney/South Melbourne 34 years.

Otherwise its West Coast/Brisbane most successfull in AFL history and Essendon most successfull in VFL/AFL history.

It isnt fair to compare a team like Port to Essendon when the Dons have 16 flags and Port have only been in the comp for 13 years is it....

Besides the fact that it is impossible its will take Port at least another 100 years and we will all be dead

 

[DockersMad]

Poor clivewaterhousen. Went fishing and got some really great bites, but now the boat is filling up with shit bream.

 

[bodazoka]

Good thread, 100% agree as it's only fair. This is not the VFL but the AFL. Brisbane/West Coast on top bitches!

Amen brother!

Geez the view is great from the top I rekon I could spit on StKilda from here!

 

[Johnny Utah #9]

I agree not all flags are equal. Because of this …

1914 Champions of Australia Final

Port Adelaide	9–16	(70)  
Carlton 	5-6	(36)

Port Adelaide's 1914 SANFL flag > Carlton's 1914 VFL flag

Now as an AFL club why should you be able to count your 1914 state league flag but we cannot count our superior 1914 state league flag?

Mickey Mouse end of season exhibition games don't count champ.

Interesting to note you have dodged most of my other questions. I guess that's because you don't have a leg to stand on.

I've taken the liberty to review Port's history. I reckon there are quite a few flags we can exclude, eg:

* 1884, 1890, 1897, 1903, 1906......all won in the South Australian Football Association therefore don't count as the league is now known as the SANFL.

* 1910. 1913, 1914, 1921......won when the league was called South Australian Football League. Plus the 1914 flag was won during WW1 so must be excluded as well.

* 1939.....won during WW2.....doesn't count.

* 1951, 1954-59, 1962, 1963, 1965, 1977, 1979-81, 1988-90......all excluded as they were won either prior to the introduction of Central Districts or the Eagles. Can't be compared to modern day flags at all.

Therefore, i'm pleased to advise Port have really only won 6 legitimate state league flags plus the 2004 AFL flag. Although the AFL one will become null and void once Gold Coast comes in next year and all results are reset once again.

Sounds all perfectly logical to me.......i'm sure you'd agree too seeing as though i have based my argument on your whacked out logic!!

 

[D_One]

Mickey Mouse end of season exhibition games don't count champ.

Mickey Mouse State league premierships don’t count as AFL premierships either champ.

Interesting to note you have dodged most of my other questions. I guess that's because you don't have a leg to stand on.

I've taken the liberty to review Port's history. I reckon there are quite a few flags we can exclude, eg:

* 1884, 1890, 1897, 1903, 1906......all won in the South Australian Football Association therefore don't count as the league is now known as the SANFL.

All won in the best league in the state. You'll notice that I have included your two VFA flags.

* 1910. 1913, 1914, 1921......won when the league was called South Australian Football League.

Once again all won in the best league in the state.

Plus the 1914 flag was won during WW1 so must be excluded as well.

The Gallipoli invasion commenced on the 25th of April, 1915. No Aussie troops left until Nov 1914.

* 1939.....won during WW2.....doesn't count.

You're ignorance is palpable. The Germans marched into Poland in September 1939 … at the same time Port were stomping all over Eagles

* 1951, 1954-59, 1962, 1963, 1965, 1977, 1979-81, 1988-90......all excluded as they were won either prior to the introduction of Central Districts or the Eagles. Can't be compared to modern day flags at all.

The Eagles have been in the SAFA/SAFL/SANFL since 1897. Centrals joined in 1964. Shall we exclude Carlton's 1994 AFL premiership won before Port joined the AFL?

Therefore, i'm pleased to advise Port have really only won 6 legitimate state league flags plus the 2004 AFL flag. Although the AFL one will become null and void once Gold Coast comes in next year and all results are reset once again.

Sounds all perfectly logical to me.......i'm sure you'd agree too seeing as though i have based my argument on your whacked out logic!!

Thank you for allowing me to expose your ignorance. Then again most Carlton fans think it is a good idea to pay your players' salaries in brown paper bags. Speaking of which I have also collated AFL wooden spoons.

Total AFL Wooden Spoons

Carlton - Total 3
Melbourne - Total 3
Brisbane Bears - Total 2
Fitzroy - Total 2
Richmond - Total 2
Sydney - Total 2
Brisbane Lions - Total 1
Collingwood - Total 1
Fremantle - Total 1
Hawthorn - Total 1
St Kilda - Total 1
Western Bulldogs - Total 1

Happy to educate the ignorant anytime.