Game Day VFL Round 13: Werribee vs Essendon, Chinside Park (Werribee), Sunday 30/06/19, 11:40 AM (Ch7 game)

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eth-dog

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We’ve all got players we defend and bag. Some easier to decipher than others


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I honestly thought he was very good. Everyone sitting around ant555 and myself agreed. McNiece and Dea I thought were a lot worse with their disposal in particular. Long was also weirdly bad.
 

eth-dog

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Player review:

#12 Mark Baguley: Cooked. Kicked a good goal and a Joe the goose but really don't understand how he got 12 touches.

#14 Jordan Ridley: Didn't really work on a wing, moved back and looked more comfortable though.

#19 Kobe Mutch: 19 touches but looked cooked in the last. Didn't seem confident on his left for some reason.

#20 Zach Clarke: Was very good for the first 3 quarters. Missed him in the last.

#22 Irving Mosquito: Unlucky, hamstring early.

#23 David Myers: Average game going head to head with Barlow.

#24 Jordan Houlahan: Was very good early but faded late.

#30 Brandon Zerk-Thatcher: Good intercept work, but was caught on the lead a couple of times.

#32 Noah Gown: Hmm. Not a good game, was outclassed by Coughlan.

#33 Brayden Ham: Poor game, seemed to not find space on a bigger ground.

#34 Jake Long: Was very poor. Delisted at year end pending.

#36 Michael Hartley: Again, a couple of poor disposals but held Riccardi to 1 goal and 4 touches for 3 quarters and then moved forward with effect.

#39 Trent Mynott: Seems to be missing something right now. Maybe needs to play forward for a couple of weeks.

#41 Ben McNiece: First half was terrible. Turnovers, lost his man a number of times, but was better in the second half with a few crucial goal saving 1%ers.

#49 Matthew Dea: Was also poor. Kicking seemed off and was beaten for pace a few times.

Aylett, Hocking, Younan and Heppell were excellent. Bowman was good without being great. Berry and Huggard struggled a bit.
 

TheGreatBarryB

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Disagree. One or two bad kicks but overall he was very good. Had Riccardi in check, who only became a presence once Harts moved forward.
In the first he was too far up the ground for Bees second goal after a poor attempt to punch a high bouncing ball when he should have just grabbed.

He then did a poor short pass followed up with another silly decision to fresh air a kick to Bees player for their third goal.

In the second he did another poor short pass which resulted in another Bees goal. Not picking on the guy but thought he was quite ordinary first half. Good bounce back third when he went forward.
 

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eth-dog

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In the first he was too far up the ground for Bees second goal after a poor attempt to punch a high bouncing ball when he should have just grabbed.

He then did a poor short pass followed up with another silly decision to fresh air a kick to Bees player for their third goal.

In the second he did another poor short pass which resulted in another Bees goal. Not picking on the guy but thought he was quite ordinary first half. Good bounce back third when he went forward.
I was at the canteen for the Bees second goal, happy to be corrected. Saw the two poor passes, which is what I was referring to. Think he doesn't get called up, pending Stringer fitness.
 

TheGreatBarryB

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I was at the canteen for the Bees second goal, happy to be corrected. Saw the two poor passes, which is what I was referring to. Think he doesn't get called up, pending Stringer fitness.
Don’t think Stringer’s a chance. What did you of Snelling’s game? Really lifted that last quarter, some terrific tackles
 

BrunoV

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Clarke played 3 quarters and had more hit outs than Werribee in that time, and had 14 touches but okay.

I think you wildly overrate the impact of ruckmen based on the number of hit outs a ruckman is credited with.

For a start the clear majority of contests are a stalemate, I can hardly tell who "won". The point of most ruck work is simply to negate advantage given that most of the time the ruckman either isn't good enough or the bounce of the ball does not favour enough for the hit out to be anything more than a deliberate stale mate.

My best example of this is when we were rucking Hille in sides with Bellchambers in the early years. Hille had fewer hit outs but actually impacted clearance numbers because of both his impact at the ruck contest and then the follow up. Bellchambers used to just do a baskball tip off, winning the touch with little to no impact. Obviously in the last few years Belcho has become a technician up there with the best.

There is also minimal correlation between hit outs, clearances generally and certainly the quantity of clearnaces. How often do we hear that the opposition is roving to the dominant ruckman and doing it successfully?

If I'm reading the stat sheet, I'd say that Clarke's influence on the game today was maybe 75% of what Draper was doing at the start of the year both at the coalface and around the ground. Hell, it might even look like 100%. That would be so far from the truth it isn't funny.
 
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DapperJong

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I think you wildly overrate the impact of ruckmen based on the number of hit outs a ruckman is credited with.

For a start the clear majority of contests are a stalemate, I can hardly tell who "won". The point of most ruck work is simply to negate advantage given that most of the time the ruckman either isn't good enough or the bounce of the ball does not favour enough for the hit out to be anything more than a deliberate stale mate.

My best example of this is when we were rucking Hille in sides with Bellchambers in the early years. Hille had fewer hit outs but actually impacted clearance numbers because of both his impact at the ruck contest and then the follow up. Bellchambers used to just do a baskball tip off, winning the touch with little to no impact. Obviously in the last few years Belcho has become a technician up there with the best.

There is also minimal correlation between hit outs, clearances generally and certainly the quantity of hit outs.

If I'm reading the stat sheet, I'd say that Clarke's influence on the game today was maybe 75% of what Draper was doing at the start of the year both at the coalface and around the ground. Hell, it might even look like 100%. That would be so far from the truth it isn't funny.
Are you trying to will someone into not picking Clarke for the seniors?
 

BrunoV

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Are you trying to will someone into not picking Clarke for the seniors?

Yes, but the above is independent of that.

My first point would be that Clarke plays, both at ruck contests and around the ground, with such a lack of physicality that he doesn't really belong on an AFL field. Nothing today indicated there has been any improvement.

It's funny, you know, how different Hird /Thompson and Worsfold are as coaches. Jonathan Giles was barred from the side for much less and then punted after 1 year.
 

DapperJong

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Yes, but the above is independent of that.

My first point would be that Clarke plays, both at ruck contests and around the ground, with such a lack of physicality that he doesn't really belong on an AFL field. Nothing today indicated there has been any improvement.

It's funny, you know, how different Hird /Thompson and Worsfold are as coaches. Jonathan Giles was barred from the side for much less and then punted after 1 year.
I don’t think you actually need to convince anyone. But, you know, he’s next in line. I think the mental scarring of Smack as number 1 ruck will get him a game.
 

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eth-dog

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Not many hit outs to advantage and his disposal at times was wasteful
He was the best ruck on the day by a fair margin. He was good enough to suggest he'd be up to it at AFL level as a first ruck against a first gamer. I think people are falling into the trap of not wanting Clarke under any circumstances and finding excuses not to pick him. Setting themselves up for disappointment
 

eDPS

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He was the best ruck on the day by a fair margin. He was good enough to suggest he'd be up to it at AFL level as a first ruck against a first gamer. I think people are falling into the trap of not wanting Clarke under any circumstances and finding excuses not to pick him. Setting themselves up for disappointment
Who was he competing with though? He being the standout ruckman in that game is nothing massive considering he wasn’t up against much and I couldn’t see any real synergy with the midfielders in his tap work.
 

Duckworth

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He was the best ruck on the day by a fair margin. He was good enough to suggest he'd be up to it at AFL level as a first ruck against a first gamer. I think people are falling into the trap of not wanting Clarke under any circumstances and finding excuses not to pick him. Setting themselves up for disappointment
My expectations of him are so low, that if he does one thing that is not a direct liability to the team I will be happy.
 

eth-dog

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Who was he competing with though? He being the standout ruckman in that game is nothing massive considering he wasn’t up against much and I couldn’t see any real synergy with the midfielders in his tap work.
Maybe a side effect of not playing that much VFL and a former teammate playing midfield in Barlow who was reading him very well.
BESTS according to the VFL Wesbite; Michael Hartley, Kurt Aylett, Dan Younan, Heath Hocking, Jordan Ridley, Matt Dea
Dea? Thought he was suspect today honestly. Aylett was great. Would have had Heppell instead of Dea.
No way should Hocking be in the bests
Massive last quarter when the game was on the line.
 

eDPS

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Maybe a side effect of not playing that much VFL and a former teammate playing midfield in Barlow who was reading him very well.

Dea? Thought he was suspect today honestly. Aylett was great. Would have had Heppell instead of Dea.

Massive last quarter when the game was on the line.
Snelling over Hocking and easily especially if we are going off the last quarter
 

BrunoV

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This is why I don't like giving votes.

Three performances warranted mention: Hartley, Younan and Aylett.

Everyone else ranged from good for a few quarters (BZT, Mynott, Hocking, Houlahan and Snelling) to not really worth mentioning.

It was an entertaining game but it was not particularly well played. Lots of skill errors, our turnovers gifting Werrribee probably 7 of its goals in ways you wouldn't bank on happening again this year (Hartley probably has never kicked the ball that badly in his life and I doubt he ever will again), and little pressure on the ball.
 

Duckworth

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5. Hartley - kicked about 3 shockers under little pressure. Needs to make sure the switch kick is on if he’s going to take it. Made good position and kept finding possessions.
4. Mynott. Workhorse all day.
3. Snelling. Good last quarter, kept putting pressure on. Did drift a bit earlier on.
2. Myers. Great soccer goal, good at the stoppages.
1. Hocking, got an important double goal (goal after a push in the back after he had just kicked one) and was big in the last.

Aylett, Houlahan, Ridley, BZT were good for quarters but drifted in and out.

No way should Hocking be in the bests
I think he squeezes in, was important when it mattered in a game of many turnovers and few 4 quarter performances.
 

Red Black and Blue

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The best aren’t wrong. Just that the are usually for 9/10 games instead of 5/10.

The tagging of Ham yesterday was worrying and effective at shutting down our transition.
 

ant555

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For there to be a correlation would require some link between Clarke's and superior work in the middle of the ground which I did not see. Werribee also had the ascendancy for much of the 3rd quarter when Clarke was still on the ground.

The problem with the last quarter, and for much of the game, was players as good by foot as Hartley and Ridley gifting Werribee the ball and goals.

It was the wrong week for Hartley to use the ball badly enough to create 4 or 5 scoring opportunities for the opposition because the rest of his game was excellent.
Clarke was reasonable around the ground IMO. He dropped one mark early but when we where going well he was involved. The thing I noticed is he seemed to be attacking the contest harder than he has done in the past. There was less self preservation. Lets face it we both agree he is below average as far as AFL goes but I thought he made a difference before he went off and we where worse when he was not on the ground.
 

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