2nds VFL v Pies @ Vic Park saturday 12pm

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Pure_Ownage said:
Ignore scooters name pretend he is scott smith. At his best he is a b & f winner , A grade clearance winner and tackler and A grade tagger,all of which we need. All due respect to our current bottom 6 but he is a much better player than all of them and his game is made for finals.

What we dont know is whether his body has the fitness and durability to run out afl games anymore.there is no point waiting until finals to know,we need to find out now so if it doesn't work we have time to go back to our back up players.he should come in this week.
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Exactly. At his best. His best hasn't been seen for a while, and coming in so late in the season, to say I'm wary of the impact he's going to have is putting it mildly. I'm a tiny bit puzzled when I keep reading statements like "all of which we need". Do we? We've just pretty comfortably handled Adelaide and the Bulldogs. Which midfielder do you think will make way?

I'm hoping the brains trust have got an eye on history. Because most times players who have missed most of the season are brought in for finals, particularly important finals, it doesn't end well. And yes I'm aware (and thankful) of Ottens in 2009 being one very happy outlier.
 

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BlightysCats said:
I went, he played really well, he took good strong marks, presented up and contested really hard and also tried to take the game on at times when others were playing it safe. He really looks promising and played with power and confidence yesterday. We were completely smashed in the first half but our midfield got on top in the second half with Selwood, and Delaney in particular playing well. We really missed Vardy and Clark up forward and lacked any option up there apart from Buzza so many of our inside 50s were wasted. I thought Tim House played ok as well but he's only a VFL listed player I think.
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Did Scooter look ready for a call up Blighty?
 
Nakia said:
It's one area we're bereft of a true weapon... a tagger. I want him in the side and I want him playing that role. Tackling, harassing and anything else within the rules required to stop the oppositions best player.

If Mitchell goes to the toilet I want Scooter right alongside.
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On his knees fighting for loose balls? :D
 
Stan The Caddy said:
Did Scooter look ready for a call up Blighty?
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He seemed alright, Not sure if he was call up ready, to me he looked like he probably needs a couple more weeks in the VFL. The fact is a VFL standard Collingwood midfield destroyed not only him but also GHS and Lang in the first half, really none of our mids deserve a call up on that performance but despite that in the second half there were encouraging signs and we did start to dominate around the ball - just an hour later than we should've. Scooter tried hard and looked tough in the contest but as I said the whole midfield was destroyed in the first half.
 
BlightysCats said:
He seemed alright, Not sure if he was call up ready, to me he looked like he probably needs a couple more weeks in the VFL. The fact is a VFL standard Collingwood midfield destroyed not only him but also GHS and Lang in the first half, really none of our mids deserve a call up on that performance but despite that in the second half there were encouraging signs and we did start to dominate around the ball - just an hour later than we should've. Scooter tried hard and looked tough in the contest but as I said the whole midfield was destroyed in the first half.
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Was that with a 'B grade' rookie in the ruck?
 
Nakia said:
Was that with a 'B grade' rookie in the ruck?
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I didn't think the ruck was our problem, Mason Cox played mainly down forward for the Pies and when he did go in to the ruck Padraig actually did pretty well tap out wise against him, it was mainly winning the ground ball/contested ball and the use of it in which we were destroyed in the first half, but as I said after that we did pick up and probably dominated around the ball in the second half a lot more than the scoreboard ended up showing.
 
BlightysCats said:
I didn't think the ruck was our problem, Mason Cox played mainly down forward for the Pies and when he did go in to the ruck Padraig actually did pretty well tap out wise against him, it was mainly winning the ground ball/contested ball and the use of it in which we were destroyed in the first half, but as I said after that we did pick up and probably dominated around the ball in the second half a lot more than the scoreboard ended up showing.
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I only ask because we've seen the improved results in the one's with a decent ruckman now at the helm and I wouldn't like that ignorance to descend down to the VFL.

They're an underrated commodity.

I didn't see the game so I'll take your word for it.
 
AM said:
This! Haven't had a genuine run with player since Linga.

Re the twos coaching. Can't understand why Caracella hasn't put his hand-up for the gig. He's put it out there he wants a head coaching job, yet gets very few interviews. Coaching in his own right would add to his coaching curriculum vitae. It's the area he is wanting having been an assistant for yonks and completed the AFL advanced coaching course. Might be a step down but would be a step forward in my book.
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Not many coaches get a gig from being a VFL coach. AFL assistant looks way better on the CV.
 
GHS33 said:
Not many coaches get a gig from being a VFL coach. AFL assistant looks way better on the CV.
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Nup! It's becoming more important to have coached in your own right. Being an assistant is a factor but only a factor. Of the recent appointments,Beveridge coached in his own right; Bolton coached in his own right;Hinkley coached in his own right;Pyke coached in his own right;Eade coached in his own right;Richardson was a Director of Coaching as well as having assistant roles;McCartney coached in his own right; Worsfold coached in his own right. There are other examples of coaches without first hand experience who have been groomed for years during which time they have taken on the senior role - Longmire and Goodwin for example.

I'm not sure how closely you follow these things but both Postecoglou who was on the panel of the Carlton appointment and Darcy who was on the panel of the Western Bulldogs appointment said having had been successful head coaches was a key factor in Beveridge and Bolton getting the Blues and Bullies jobs.

That isn't to say there isn't a pathway without having first hand coaching experience but it is becoming more difficult because the success rate isn't great. Hardwick, Leppitsch, Buckley, Hird are examples.

It's no accident Carracella hasn't been a serious candidate in recent times despite his desire to take on a head coaching role. He'd be enhancing his chances if he had a crack at it in my view. I reckon that's why O'Bree has taken on the twos role.

Oh, and the most successful coach our time had a long grounding as a coach.
 
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Partridge said:
Exactly. At his best. His best hasn't been seen for a while, and coming in so late in the season, to say I'm wary of the impact he's going to have is putting it mildly. I'm a tiny bit puzzled when I keep reading statements like "all of which we need". Do we? We've just pretty comfortably handled Adelaide and the Bulldogs. Which midfielder do you think will make way?

I'm hoping the brains trust have got an eye on history. Because most times players who have missed most of the season are brought in for finals, particularly important finals, it doesn't end well. And yes I'm aware (and thankful) of Ottens in 2009 being one very happy outlier.
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If we were rushing him in for finals I'd have a similar opinion to you but 4 weeks in the VFL and 4 weeks in the AFL is plenty of lead in work for him to be in good shape. It's also been said that he had a lot of training before the first VFL game. If he was coming in off less than 4 games then we'd be genuinely rushing him. He also played a solid final last year off a poor lead in while his ankle wasn't right so he can perform under duress.

It's also not a matter of what we need but what improves us. Is S Selwood with his experience a better option in the same role as Menegola (just picking him because it could be a straight swap)? I'm not sure guys with less than 10 games have a great record in finals either.

EDIT: I should say that this isn't a decision that has to be made right now. I think with a few guys being rotated out both Selwood and Menegola should play most of the games from here even though I doubt both are in our best 22.
 
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Footy Smarts said:
If we were rushing him in for finals I'd have a similar opinion to you but 4 weeks in the VFL and 4 weeks in the AFL is plenty of lead in work for him to be in good shape. It's also been said that he had a lot of training before the first VFL game. If he was coming in off less than 4 games then we'd be genuinely rushing him. He also played a solid final last year off a poor lead in while his ankle wasn't right so he can perform under duress.

It's also not a matter of what we need but what improves us. Is S Selwood with his experience a better option in the same role as Menegola (just picking him because it could be a straight swap)? I'm not sure guys with less than 10 games have a great record in finals either.

EDIT: I should say that this isn't a decision that has to be made right now. I think with a few guys being rotated out both Selwood and Menegola should play most of the games from here even though I doubt both are in our best 22.
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Unless we suffer some injuries a fail to see how Menegola is any chance to get a game come finals time.
 
catempire said:
I'm at the point now of calling Ruggles a lock. I honestly couldn't say what more we could have asked of him since he has come into the side. His maturity and hardness will be welcome in finals footy
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I saw him playing local footy before the vfl stint. So wasn't surprised with that step up at all. Stepping up to the top level however. Pleasantly surprised at that. On the hardness, I watched the replay again and that really does stick out. In that regard it does surprise me that Bob has him as "depth" for finals given his criticism of us being soft. I'd be keeping hard at it blokes like the Rug in, personally.
 
ChookNorris said:
On vfl form he's better than anyone not currently in the side.
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Unless we get injuries I don't think we have a spot for George come finals time.

Caddy will walk straight back in. SSelwood won't need to dominate as much or as long to get in, and I'd also argue Menegola can press a case to be ahead of George also. I think we must accept he's just depth atm.
 
vinum coupe said:
And I'd argue it's not about the name. It's the fact that he is a proven AFL footballer
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I said when we got him that if we can get somewhere between his 2012 B&F form and the injury ravaged form of 2014-15 then that's good enough for me.

that'd be roughly 20 touches, 5 tackles, 3-4 clearances, 10 contested possessions. That'd be acceptable output. Add in a negating role on the opp's best mid and I'd be happy.
 
Seeds said:
Gees kersten is going to struggle to get a game with a performance like that.
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Kersten was a bit better than his stats suggest.
Horrible day for forwards, incredibly windy. (cross breeze)

Our delivery going forward was terrible also. Kersten presented well, pressured well and made the play.
Wouldn't go straight back in, but he had a solid day.
 
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