Vic bias and the media

greatwhiteshark

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 3, 2007
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Do you really think that HQ will forgo marquee games for the sake of sentiment? As noble as this is they're not going to. It's a business after all is said and done. There in lies your thorn in the side.

The national comp is not balanced because it panders to market factors - this is the blunt reality, it's a business after all is said and done. There in lies your thorn in the side.

I already know you're an avid West Perth member and I commend you for that. Unfortunately that makes you an exception to the rule - the bulk of our population in WA is all about WC or Freo. Almost zero about the famous WAFL and their (once) powerhouse teams.

No one has ever answered the question why it is / was so important to dump this prestigious league (and the SANFL) and their teams or at least have Ade, WC or Freo as the 1st interest. What is the logical reason for that? For decades I've contemplated any reasonable explanations and I can't think of one. All we we hear from non vic supporters is wah! Well then vote with your feet! Hit HQ where it hurts! Force em to go back to their VFL!

Otherwise it's just being disingenuous and not being true to your footy roots.

If I may so boldly say, you yourself could only be genuine about your gripes with this comp if you ditched it. You can't expect this comp to be ideal for all non vic clubs at the expense of vic clubs and expect all the vic fans to just accept change because.That's unfair to ask and HQ won't bend that way anyway for obvious reasons.

I can categorically tell you that near ZERO vic club supporters would've done the same and dump their 100+ year teams for a brand new start up. So why did those west of Vic do so? Makes no sense.
You keep asking the same question and I don’t know the answer.
 

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greatwhiteshark

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 3, 2007
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You don't know why you follow WC? Or this league? C'mon Sharky spill the beans!
I thought you were asking why the majority dumped their WAFL clubs.
From my point of view once the VFL expanded and the Eagles joined it was clear that the WAFL was going to end up a second tier league, as I never followed a VFL club it was a no brainer to follow the Eagles and have a club in the top tier of footy. My support of theWAFL however has never diminished and I continue to put the same effort into the club in my heart West Perth I always have. I genuinely follow the Eagles also but they will never be in my heart like West Perth are.
 

Carringbush2010

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From my point of view once the VFL expanded and the Eagles joined it was clear that the WAFL was going to end up a second tier league,
Only if the WA public followed the expanded VFL, even then the WAFL or SANFL was never going to be the highest profile league - it never was yet for some nearly 100 years previous the bulk of those states followed their local leagues.

So the question STILL is up for answer - why would the WA and SA public do that? Can you or anyone else give a reasonable explanation?
 

John Who

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Apr 16, 2017
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Here’s a glaring example of the point of this thread:

Crows preseason camp in 2018 was talked about by Wilson and McClure ad infinitum. Short story was that there were all sorts of evil happening from tying up to trees naked, blindfolds on a bus, total chaos and constant usage of the words “debacle” and “disaster”.
Result in the aftermath of the camp in the first 2 months: Crows won 6 out of their first 9 games, and sat on 4th spot.

Regarding this season 2019, I’m sure most would agree the biggest debacle has been the Melbourne team. With only 5 wins out of 20 games, sitting second to last, the real question is...why hasn’t any Vic journalists investigated thoroughly on the Dees preseason camp/activities?
 

LoungeLizard

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Here’s a glaring example of the point of this thread:

Crows preseason camp in 2018 was talked about by Wilson and McClure ad infinitum. Short story was that there were all sorts of evil happening from tying up to trees naked, blindfolds on a bus, total chaos and constant usage of the words “debacle” and “disaster”.
Result in the aftermath of the camp in the first 2 months: Crows won 6 out of their first 9 games, and sat on 4th spot.

Regarding this season 2019, I’m sure most would agree the biggest debacle has been the Melbourne team. With only 5 wins out of 20 games, sitting second to last, the real question is...why hasn’t any Vic journalists investigated thoroughly on the Dees preseason camp/activities?
I could guess and say it's because they made a prelim after.
 

greatwhiteshark

Norm Smith Medallist
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Only if the WA public followed the expanded VFL, even then the WAFL or SANFL was never going to be the highest profile league - it never was yet for some nearly 100 years previous the bulk of those states followed their local leagues.

So the question STILL is up for answer - why would the WA and SA public do that? Can you or anyone else give a reasonable explanation?
I just don’t know why mate, start a thread and ask the question.
 

telsor

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Here’s a glaring example of the point of this thread:

Crows preseason camp in 2018 was talked about by Wilson and McClure ad infinitum. Short story was that there were all sorts of evil happening from tying up to trees naked, blindfolds on a bus, total chaos and constant usage of the words “debacle” and “disaster”.
Result in the aftermath of the camp in the first 2 months: Crows won 6 out of their first 9 games, and sat on 4th spot.

Regarding this season 2019, I’m sure most would agree the biggest debacle has been the Melbourne team. With only 5 wins out of 20 games, sitting second to last, the real question is...why hasn’t any Vic journalists investigated thoroughly on the Dees preseason camp/activities?

Because the Dees didn't just lose a Grand final they were overwhelming favorites to win?
 

Tom_Thumb

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Feb 1, 2016
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Only if the WA public followed the expanded VFL, even then the WAFL or SANFL was never going to be the highest profile league - it never was yet for some nearly 100 years previous the bulk of those states followed their local leagues.

So the question STILL is up for answer - why would the WA and SA public do that? Can you or anyone else give a reasonable explanation?
I can answer this from my perspective, travel cost's and the tyranny of distance prevented a National Comp until it was financially possible in the 90's thus following a team you could never see was not practicable. I used to watch The Winners on Sundays here in WA but only had an interest in the WA boys playing so I never went for any teams but like to follow Essendon, Carlton, Norths and Geelong for said reasons. Our WAFL was big over here and there was no need to join any other competition so really the first State of Origin in 1977 started the push to test our best versus your best and it took another 10 years before the Eagles joined the competition that I started to follow a VFL team.
 

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greatwhiteshark

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 3, 2007
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I can answer this from my perspective, travel cost's and the tyranny of distance prevented a National Comp until it was financially possible in the 90's thus following a team you could never see was not practicable. I used to watch The Winners on Sundays here in WA but only had an interest in the WA boys playing so I never went for any teams but like to follow Essendon, Carlton, Norths and Geelong for said reasons. Our WAFL was big over here and there was no need to join any other competition so really the first State of Origin in 1977 started the push to test our best versus your best and it took another 10 years before the Eagles joined the competition that I started to follow a VFL team.
Do you still support your WAFL team the same? If not, why?
 

Duckimus Prime

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Exactly. There was no 'national comp' without Vic, and everywhere else was optional. (and by extension, no Vic without the big Vic clubs).

This means the comp was always going to have some Vic-centric aspects....Because Vic *IS* the centre of the comp.
The VFL was saved by the introduction of interstate teams.
 

telsor

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They don't believe that^^
I wonder if all the Victorian teams going around today would still be playing if WA, SA and Brisy hadn't joined the new competition?
It helped, but the effect was massively overrated.

Do you really think $8M (2*$4M licence fees) was the difference between life and death for 12 clubs?

Vic clubs had other options (my club raised over a million in under a month rattling tins for example, or they could have stopped paying transfer fees to give just 2 examples).

None of which changes the basic point that there could be no national comp without Vic, while all other states are/were optional.
 

Candiru

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Jan 27, 2018
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Here’s a glaring example of the point of this thread:

Crows preseason camp in 2018 was talked about by Wilson and McClure ad infinitum. Short story was that there were all sorts of evil happening from tying up to trees naked, blindfolds on a bus, total chaos and constant usage of the words “debacle” and “disaster”.
Result in the aftermath of the camp in the first 2 months: Crows won 6 out of their first 9 games, and sat on 4th spot.

Regarding this season 2019, I’m sure most would agree the biggest debacle has been the Melbourne team. With only 5 wins out of 20 games, sitting second to last, the real question is...why hasn’t any Vic journalists investigated thoroughly on the Dees preseason camp/activities?
Is there any suggestion that something happened pre-season that has contributed to their poor results?

If not, what are you talking about?

Have Vic journalists investigated something that didn't happen?
 

Papa G

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Only if the WA public followed the expanded VFL, even then the WAFL or SANFL was never going to be the highest profile league - it never was yet for some nearly 100 years previous the bulk of those states followed their local leagues.

So the question STILL is up for answer - why would the WA and SA public do that? Can you or anyone else give a reasonable explanation?
I know you are labouring this point to solidify your intrinsic belief that the Victorian football follower is innately superior and loyal, but here goes:

From the early the early to mid 80's and even earlier in WA, the VFL started poaching the best players out of our leagues. Money was the driving factor. The VFL started to get stronger and stronger, whilst the WAFL and SANFL began to get weaker through the player drain. I'll use my club for an example. From the early to mid 80's to the early 90's we lost players of the calibre of Mark Williams, Danny Hughes, Greg Phillips, Bruce Abernathy, Greg Anderson, Martin Leslie, Andrew Obst, Craig Bradley, Nathan Buckley, Gavin Wanganeen and Andrew Mcleod to the VFL/AFL. Heck Collingwood even poached our coach in 1983. Whilst the SANFL/WAFL were still good leagues, it was obvious that the player drain has massive effect making the VFL stronger and the WAFL/SANFL weaker. Prior to the 1980s, it was rare that players moved states.

Couple this with increased television and media coverage the VFL was getting, it was clear that the VFL was on a path to Football Imperialism.

When West Coast joined the league, they weren't an overnight success and they were far from the biggest, wealthiest and most successful club in the league like the juggernaut they are now. They went broke in the infancy and were bailed out. Only when they started getting a bit of success that the Perth locals fully embraced them. The WAFL didn't fall straight into oblivion either, it became a slow burn, but people want to see sport at the highest level and the Eagles were now playing at a higher level.

In SA, the SANFL were holding on for dear life trying to get a better deal out of the Imperialists. The Imperialists, still wanted their pound of flesh as they were not the Financial bohemouth they are today. There was an general acceptance though that a SA team would enter the AFL at some stage. Port, who saw the writing on the wall and would be damned seeing this great football club would be forced into relative obscurity dived in head first. They forced the SANFL's hand. So now we have all the non Port supporters galvanised to support what was cleverly marketed as a State Team to take on those dastardly Vics as a weekly State of Origin type scenario. The adoring public jumped on board as again there was an appetite to see footy at the top level. But again, the SANFL didn't wither and die at that point. It has been a slow burn.

It's been 33 years since West Coast joined the comp, 29 since Adelaide did. This now getting into 2 generations of people born that have virtually zero connection to the SANFL/WAFL. As I stated in a previous post, if Hawthorn or Richmond or even Collingwood had been demoted to the VFA, do you reckon they'd have have 80,000 plus members and be turning over $60-$80 million a year? Do you think they'd be getting the media and corporate support? Do you reckon the kids would still be following them in the numbers they are today? Of course they wouldn't. I know you can not get your head around this point that in some way Collingwood couldn't be included, but just for a second imagine they weren't. The VFL won the Football battle to become the premier competition in the country. It did so because it was the biggest, had the most money, had the most people and had the most media/corporate support. It could not have really happened any other way and because of this all of it's legacy clubs, both deserving and undeserving, got dragged along with it. And with that came more money and more power and it left every other league in it's wake.
 

greatwhiteshark

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 3, 2007
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It helped, but the effect was massively overrated.

Do you really think $8M (2*$4M licence fees) was the difference between life and death for 12 clubs?

Vic clubs had other options (my club raised over a million in under a month rattling tins for example, or they could have stopped paying transfer fees to give just 2 examples).

None of which changes the basic point that there could be no national comp without Vic, while all other states are/were optional.
Back in 1986 8 million was a huge amount of money and certainly would of helped keep more than 6 clubs doors open.

but yes there was no National comp without the VFL and I still don't get how some don't get that. One way or another Victorian Football was always going to be the driving force behind the game going national no matter which way it happened.
 

telsor

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Back in 1986 8 million was a huge amount of money and certainly would of helped keep more than 6 clubs doors open.

but yes there was no National comp without the VFL and I still don't get how some don't get that. One way or another Victorian Football was always going to be the driving force behind the game going national no matter which way it happened.

I agree it helped significantly, and meant we avoided other options (like a WAFL-style state government bailout & subsequent WAFC 'takeover' to give another example), but the suggestion that VFL was saved by those 2 licence fees is as silly as it is oft repeated.
 

greatwhiteshark

Norm Smith Medallist
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I agree it helped significantly, and meant we avoided other options (like a WAFL-style state government bailout & subsequent WAFC 'takeover' to give another example), but the suggestion that VFL was saved by those 2 licence fees is as silly as it is oft repeated.
Agree
 

bh90210fan

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Sep 4, 2017
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Only if the WA public followed the expanded VFL, even then the WAFL or SANFL was never going to be the highest profile league - it never was yet for some nearly 100 years previous the bulk of those states followed their local leagues.

So the question STILL is up for answer - why would the WA and SA public do that? Can you or anyone else give a reasonable explanation?
West Coast came in and was attractive because they were a team that every West Australian could identify with. If they had of been Subiaco for instance - with the Subiaco colours and club song, they wouldn’t have been anywhere near as successful. No way a Swan Districts or a East Freo supporter would put on their jumper and cheer for them for example. The national comp had the best players, stronger teams, of course people are going to follow the premier competition. As long as they can identify with their team they’ll be drawn to it.

Most people when you ask do have a WAFL club they support but it’s pretty hard to fit in 2 games of footy on a weekend when you’re either playing yourself or taking kids to games, going out etc. People have lives and religiously following more than one team is not feasible for most people. If you’re born after 1980 there just isn’t the die hard support for WAFL as you would have grown up in the AFL era and the WAFL became a first division league.

Now I know you reckon you can categorically say this would never happen in Victoria but it most likely would. If a new comp started up and became the premier comp in the land with the best players in the country, all the money, the national draft etc, etc and had say 5 Vic clubs included, let’s call them Melbourne city, South Melbourne, Western Districts, Northern Suburbs and Vic Country for example. They all have original team colours and team songs etc. Every Victorian would be able to identify with one of these teams without turning their back on their Vfl roots. The best players in the country are competing in it. Every kid in Victoria aims to be a part of it, of course the fans will follow the best comp. You can’t categorically claim otherwise, odds are you’re completely wrong.
 

Farang83150

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It helped, but the effect was massively overrated.

Do you really think $8M (2*$4M licence fees) was the difference between life and death for 12 clubs?

Vic clubs had other options (my club raised over a million in under a month rattling tins for example, or they could have stopped paying transfer fees to give just 2 examples).

None of which changes the basic point that there could be no national comp without Vic, while all other states are/were optional.
No, not life and death for all 12 clubs but definitely for some.
8m or however much the total amount was, would have been a massive boost to the empty accounts of the old vfl.
 

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