Vic bias and the media

[The Warlord]

Game was invented in Victoria for Victorians.

We permit others to play it and it is only fair they should pay for the privilege.

 

[Tedeski]

Game was invented in Victoria for Victorians.

We permit others to play it and it is only fair they should pay for the privilege.

A bit rich coming from a supporter of a Gypsy club who has in the last 20 years called, Canberra, Sydney, Gold Coast, & Now Tasmania home.
What do you mean “we”?

 

[The Warlord]

A bit rich coming from a supporter of a Gypsy club who has in the last 20 years called, Canberra, Sydney, Gold Coast, & Now Tasmania home.
What do you mean “we”?

We've never left Arden Street - we played some games in other states sure, but we never up and relocated like the South Melbourne Swans or Fitzroy Lions.

 

[Tedeski]

We've never left Arden Street - we played some games in other states sure, but we never up and relocated like the South Melbourne Swans or Fitzroy Lions.

You keep believing that.
You just don't know where you belong.

 

[The Warlord]

You keep believing that.
You just don't know where you belong.

It is our 150 year anniversary this year, we know very well thanks.

Run along now.

 

[Tom_Thumb]

Do you still support your WAFL team the same? If not, why?

Well I was South Fremantle but the interest went to basically zero once the eagles come along, was supporting the Wildcats as well so never had time for them after that.

 

[Carringbush2010]

I just don’t know why mate, start a thread and ask the question.

Have done that in the past (asking if Vic fans would ditch their current for a new start up) and it turned into a snipe fest.

Must be a thorny issue.

 

[Goomba1973]

Yes they are, as is the Adelaide Media, The West Australian Media, They NSW Media and the Qld Media . The local media will always be bias towards thier own back yard.

 

[Carringbush2010]

I can answer this from my perspective, travel cost's and the tyranny of distance prevented a National Comp until it was financially possible in the 90's thus following a team you could never see was not practicable. I used to watch The Winners on Sundays here in WA but only had an interest in the WA boys playing so I never went for any teams but like to follow Essendon, Carlton, Norths and Geelong for said reasons. Our WAFL was big over here and there was no need to join any other competition so really the first State of Origin in 1977 started the push to test our best versus your best and it took another 10 years before the Eagles joined the competition that I started to follow a VFL team.

So why then? What's the attraction of dumping this big wafl league for an unknown start that's gonna be up against it up in a National comp?

You haven't answered the question, you've just stated there was no need to follow a new team in a different league. Which I already knew and have stated.

 

[Carringbush2010]

I know you are labouring this point to solidify your intrinsic belief that the Victorian football follower is innately superior and loyal, but here goes:

From the early the early to mid 80's and even earlier in WA, the VFL started poaching the best players out of our leagues. Money was the driving factor. The VFL started to get stronger and stronger, whilst the WAFL and SANFL began to get weaker through the player drain. I'll use my club for an example. From the early to mid 80's to the early 90's we lost players of the calibre of Mark Williams, Danny Hughes, Greg Phillips, Bruce Abernathy, Greg Anderson, Martin Leslie, Andrew Obst, Craig Bradley, Nathan Buckley, Gavin Wanganeen and Andrew Mcleod to the VFL/AFL. Heck Collingwood even poached our coach in 1983. Whilst the SANFL/WAFL were still good leagues, it was obvious that the player drain has massive effect making the VFL stronger and the WAFL/SANFL weaker. Prior to the 1980s, it was rare that players moved states.

Couple this with increased television and media coverage the VFL was getting, it was clear that the VFL was on a path to Football Imperialism.

When West Coast joined the league, they weren't an overnight success and they were far from the biggest, wealthiest and most successful club in the league like the juggernaut they are now. They went broke in the infancy and were bailed out. Only when they started getting a bit of success that the Perth locals fully embraced them. The WAFL didn't fall straight into oblivion either, it became a slow burn, but people want to see sport at the highest level and the Eagles were now playing at a higher level.

In SA, the SANFL were holding on for dear life trying to get a better deal out of the Imperialists. The Imperialists, still wanted their pound of flesh as they were not the Financial bohemouth they are today. There was an general acceptance though that a SA team would enter the AFL at some stage. Port, who saw the writing on the wall and would be damned seeing this great football club would be forced into relative obscurity dived in head first. They forced the SANFL's hand. So now we have all the non Port supporters galvanised to support what was cleverly marketed as a State Team to take on those dastardly Vics as a weekly State of Origin type scenario. The adoring public jumped on board as again there was an appetite to see footy at the top level. But again, the SANFL didn't wither and die at that point. It has been a slow burn.

It's been 33 years since West Coast joined the comp, 29 since Adelaide did. This now getting into 2 generations of people born that have virtually zero connection to the SANFL/WAFL. As I stated in a previous post, if Hawthorn or Richmond or even Collingwood had been demoted to the VFA, do you reckon they'd have have 80,000 plus members and be turning over $60-$80 million a year? Do you think they'd be getting the media and corporate support? Do you reckon the kids would still be following them in the numbers they are today? Of course they wouldn't. I know you can not get your head around this point that in some way Collingwood couldn't be included, but just for a second imagine they weren't. The VFL won the Football battle to become the premier competition in the country. It did so because it was the biggest, had the most money, had the most people and had the most media/corporate support. It could not have really happened any other way and because of this all of it's legacy clubs, both deserving and undeserving, got dragged along with it. And with that came more money and more power and it left every other league in it's wake.

I don't know where you get the idea the I have a belief that vic club supporters are superior. That comes across as reactionary and insecure.

The VFL didn't "poach" players - two way street mate you can't force players to go to a foreign comp against their will. You're right market forces were driving factors and that's why players / coaches left for vic. Not against their will.

This is not some sort of secret, it's been well documented that a lot of players and coaches left those leagues to move to vic.

And so what? the WAFL and SANFL may have had finance issues but they were still highly marketable and would've remained very popular if the local populations didn't dump them like a bad ex girlfriend.

As for your Haw, Rich, Coll argument I've explained previously this never would've come to pass, market factors made that impossible. It's a pure hypothetical that screams "how would you like it".

As for SANFL putting up a state team and selling it as "take on the vics, coz they're the enemy". Well if that were true that it was sold that way it just screams insecurity of the public of the time - so I seriously doubt that would've been the mindset. This is not state of origin, it's a comp with very old teams and some not so old. It's not representation football and nor should it be viewed that way.

So I take your post as an answer of "beat the vics, because our players left to play there - that's the end game". I certainly hope this is not the normal narrative.

 

[Carringbush2010]

West Coast came in and was attractive because they were a team that every West Australian could identify with. If they had of been Subiaco for instance - with the Subiaco colours and club song, they wouldn’t have been anywhere near as successful. No way a Swan Districts or a East Freo supporter would put on their jumper and cheer for them for example. The national comp had the best players, stronger teams, of course people are going to follow the premier competition. As long as they can identify with their team they’ll be drawn to it.

Most people when you ask do have a WAFL club they support but it’s pretty hard to fit in 2 games of footy on a weekend when you’re either playing yourself or taking kids to games, going out etc. People have lives and religiously following more than one team is not feasible for most people. If you’re born after 1980 there just isn’t the die hard support for WAFL as you would have grown up in the AFL era and the WAFL became a first division league.

Now I know you reckon you can categorically say this would never happen in Victoria but it most likely would. If a new comp started up and became the premier comp in the land with the best players in the country, all the money, the national draft etc, etc and had say 5 Vic clubs included, let’s call them Melbourne city, South Melbourne, Western Districts, Northern Suburbs and Vic Country for example. They all have original team colours and team songs etc. Every Victorian would be able to identify with one of these teams without turning their back on their Vfl roots. The best players in the country are competing in it. Every kid in Victoria aims to be a part of it, of course the fans will follow the best comp. You can’t categorically claim otherwise, odds are you’re completely wrong.

Why follow a brand new team in a foreign league? How does every west aussie identify with it if they've never seen it before? What's the point? What so you have a team that "represents" WA? This is not representation football and should not be viewed that way. It's competition not state of origin.

Ever since day one of wc there's been whinging about inequity - well then hit em where it hurts! follow the true west aussie football!

Or don't and be forever unhappy!

As for your hypothetical league, how do you think this would come to pass? Why would any HQ dilute the market by separating teams out of comps where the biggest market is?

The reason we still have 10 vic teams in the comp is because the market dictates so, the AFL is your hypothetical league and there'd be no incentive to jump off them and therefore your hypothetical comp would not come to pass. This theory would require all the vic supporters to just dump their teams, how and why would this happen seeing their teams are in the lands biggest football competition?

 

[Papa G]

I don't know where you get the idea the I have a belief that vic club supporters are superior. That comes across as reactionary and insecure.

The VFL didn't "poach" players - two way street mate you can't force players to go to a foreign comp against their will. You're right market forces were driving factors and that's why players / coaches left for vic. Not against their will.

This is not some sort of secret, it's been well documented that a lot of players and coaches left those leagues to move to vic.

And so what? the WAFL and SANFL may have had finance issues but they were still highly marketable and would've remained very popular if the local populations didn't dump them like a bad ex girlfriend.

As for your Haw, Rich, Coll argument I've explained previously this never would've come to pass, market factors made that impossible. It's a pure hypothetical that screams "how would you like it".

As for SANFL putting up a state team and selling it as "take on the vics, coz they're the enemy". Well if that were true that it was sold that way it just screams insecurity of the public of the time - so I seriously doubt that would've been the mindset. This is not state of origin, it's a comp with very old teams and some not so old. It's not representation football and nor should it be viewed that way.

So I take your post as an answer of "beat the vics, because our players left to play there - that's the end game". I certainly hope this is not the normal narrative.

WTF is wrong with you? Reactionary and Insecure? Mate I'm explaining to you why and how it happened. If you can't understand that, why keep asking the question? The VFL clubs did come and poach players. I'm not sure what your problem is with that word? Nobody said it was against their will. They did it freely just like people move jobs for a better salary. That is what happened. They offered them substantially bigger money to go play in Victoria. Again what is your point? That is what happened and that is why the SANFL and WAFL comps got weaker.

Your asking for explanations as to what people's motivations were for supporting the newly formed Eagles and Crows and I'm giving them to you. If you are not willing to put yourself in their shoes, hypothetically, if Collingwood were demoted to the VFA in 1988, and all their good players left to play for someone else, do you think Collingwood would be anywhere near what it is today? Would they have 90,000 members? Of course they wouldn't. The fact that it didn't happen or in your mind couldn't happen, is beside the point. I explained to you people's motivation for doing it, if you can't accept that, that's fine, but stop asking the question if you can't comprehend the answer.

 

[bh90210fan]

Why follow a brand new team in a foreign league? How does every west aussie identify with it if they've never seen it before? What's the point? What so you have a team that "represents" WA? This is not representation football and should not be viewed that way. It's competition not state of origin.

Ever since day one of wc there's been whinging about inequity - well then hit em where it hurts! follow the true west aussie football!

Or don't and be forever unhappy!

As for your hypothetical league, how do you think this would come to pass? Why would any HQ dilute the market by separating teams out of comps where the biggest market is?

The reason we still have 10 vic teams in the comp is because the market dictates so, the AFL is your hypothetical league and there'd be no incentive to jump off them and therefore your hypothetical comp would not come to pass. This theory would require all the vic supporters to just dump their teams, how and why would this happen seeing their teams are in the lands biggest football competition?

West Australians attracted to a West Australian team in a national competition - where our best players are competing - in the premier league in the land

It’s not too hard to fathom is it??

I can assure you many people viewed West Coast as a representative side and were loving the thought of dragging the Cup out West, overcoming all of the obstacles set in front of them. How you think West Coast should’ve been viewed is irrelevant

The hypothetical league was an attempt to explain to you how fans would migrate towards a new team in a different comp. You can’t categorically say Vics would never jump ship to a new team when in fact history says they more than likely would. It happened in WA, SA and would be inevitable in Victoria also.

 

[LoungeLizard]

West Australians attracted to a West Australian team in a national competition - where our best players are competing - in the premier league in the land

It’s not too hard to fathom is it??

I can assure you many people viewed West Coast as a representative side and were loving the thought of dragging the Cup out West, overcoming all of the obstacles set in front of them. How you think West Coast should’ve been viewed is irrelevant

The hypothetical league was an attempt to explain to you how fans would migrate towards a new team in a different comp. You can’t categorically say Vics would never jump ship to a new team when in fact history says they more than likely would. It happened in WA, SA and would be inevitable in Victoria also.

WC didn't enter a national comp, they entered the VFL.

So yes, it is hard to fathom.

 

[Tom_Thumb]

So why then? What's the attraction of dumping this big wafl league for an unknown start that's gonna be up against it up in a National comp?

You haven't answered the question, you've just stated there was no need to follow a new team in a different league. Which I already knew and have stated.

Because the only opportunity for a National Competition would be joining the East Coast because thats where the population is, the VFL wasn't coming to join us. It was obvious that it was going to go that way with Sheffield Shield Cricket and Basketball so to stick with the WAFL would of been stupid.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Because the only opportunity for a National Competition would be joining the East Coast because thats where the population is, the VFL wasn't coming to join us. It was obvious that it was going to go that way with Sheffield Shield Cricket and Basketball so to stick with the WAFL would of been stupid.

I have stuck with the WAFL and also support the Eagles, I don't find it a stupid thing to do. I think a more valid question is how really serious were all those WAFL supporters about their club that they could just drop them overnight, for the over 40's those clubs were the be all and end all of footy.
To drop them as they did shows me they were not really passionate supporters of their club at all.

 

[Trouto]

When you think about, West Coast supporters really shouldn't give a s**t about Victorian bias, because they largely have been the club to overcome it.

The AFL is designed to promote and profit the 5 or 6 biggest Victorian clubs and Sydney (as the Victorians still desire both the acceptance and money/corporate opportunities Australia's most important cities provides).

West Coast have overcome these impediments to become the AFL's biggest, wealthiest and most successful club. Who gives a s**t if the Victorians don't properly acknowledge this? You get your balls cupped in your home market more than anybody else does (even more than the Crows), and you've bucked their system. Who cares if a bunch of lazy VFL era hacks who live in their own Malbun footy bubble dont talk about you. It shouldn't bother you that much.

this.

as an eagles supporter, i dont get all up in arms about the media writing us off or not giving us the accolades that come with being successful. At the end of the day, 99% of the articles in the papers and shows on TV are just opinions. If you have old school VFL guys giving these opinions, i'm not surprised that the content of it all is Vic bias.
I actually quite like rubbish articles/opinions like Robert Walls predicting us to finish last in 2018. Its of more value as a laugh and is remembered more than a well written article about the Eagle's actual strengths etc.
The only thing i really care about is club success. As an Eagle's supporter, i can say we have been blessed with success over the journey.

 

[Trouto]

I have stuck with the WAFL and also support the Eagles, I don't find it a stupid thing to do. I think a more valid question is how really serious were all those WAFL supporters about their club that they could just drop them overnight, for the over 40's those clubs were the be all and end all of footy.
To drop them as they did shows me they were not really passionate supporters of their club at all.

well, thats not really fair...People in the majority want to watch the best that footy has to offer, and its in the AFL, not the WAFL. I supported Subi before the Eagles and i still do now, but i would still rather an Eagles win than a Subi one.

 

[LoungeLizard]

well, thats not really fair...People in the majority want to watch the best that footy has to offer, and its in the AFL, not the WAFL. I supported Subi before the Eagles and i still do now, but i would still rather an Eagles win than a Subi one.

Each to their own i suppose, i would rather my local team won than Collingwood.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

well, thats not really fair...People in the majority want to watch the best that footy has to offer, and its in the AFL, not the WAFL. I supported Subi before the Eagles and i still do now, but i would still rather an Eagles win than a Subi one.

Well it's how you see it, for me when i grew up WAFL was king. The VFL was insignificant as far as footy went in WA. Yes the winners were on and the GF was braodcast but outside of that no one cared. if you asked any person on the street in WA who they supported in footy in 1980 99.99% of the time the answer was a WAFL team with no mention what so ever of the VFL.
I agree that people want to watch the highest level and thats why the Eagles are so well supported but dropping and not caring about your WAFL club I don't get. There is no reason at all that supporters couldn't support both.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Each to their own i suppose, i would rather my local team won than Collingwood.

Agree, West Perth winning is much more important to me than the Eagles winning.

 

[LoungeLizard]

Agree, West Perth winning is much more important to me than the Eagles winning.

The difference being for me is, i played for my local side, i left blood there.

 

[Trouto]

Well it's how you see it, for me when i grew up WAFL was king. The VFL was insignificant as far as footy went in WA. Yes the winners were on and the GF was braodcast but outside of that no one cared. if you asked any person on the street in WA who they supported in footy in 1980 99.99% of the time the answer was a WAFL team with no mention what so ever of the VFL.
I agree that people want to watch the highest level and thats why the Eagles are so well supported but dropping and not caring about your WAFL club I don't get. There is no reason at all that supporters couldn't support both.

yeah i agree with you, it took me three years before i even supported the eagles thoroughly. but the weight of supporting an elite team of footballers versus a semi-mature team of battlers/youth won me over.
I never took any notice of the VFL in the 80's could not have told you who won the day it happened.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

The difference being for me is, i played for my local side, i left blood there.

Same

 

[Carringbush2010]

WTF is wrong with you? Reactionary and Insecure? Mate I'm explaining to you why and how it happened. If you can't understand that, why keep asking the question? The VFL clubs did come and poach players. I'm not sure what your problem is with that word?

Mate you need to chill, I'm merely trying to get the mindset of a supporter base that jumped ship for a start up team. From what I can gather from your previous post is that it's somewhat an us against vic mentality.

No need to take offence of me asking a question that people seemingly don't want to answer. At least you gave some sort of answer but I doubt everyone feels that way and then you proceed to get your nose out of joint.

You throw out all sorts of words like "poach" and "imperialists" and that you claim I believe vic supporters are superior (which is absolutely ridiculous), I label that reactionary and you then ask what it wrong with me. Yeah righto mate.

Seems I've touched a nerve.