Vic Clubs take $77m in Pokies revenue

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Gigantor

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then stop talking about leafy eastern suburbs.

hawthorn hasnt been a leafy eastern suburbs team for decades
A large part of their constituency comes from those very same leafy suburbs: above average education; above average income; no shortage of political clout...but...no pokies allowed within coo-ee!

So what's the natural response for a club like Hawthorn?

To re-locate somewhere diametrically opposed to its roots: below average education; below average income; zero political clout...AND...not only pokies, lots of pokies, endless pokies, but the ability to completely fleece those least able to afford it (and who, more than likely, have nothing to do with the Hawthorn FC).

Put another way, what are the odds that you will find someone from Hawthorn/Hawthorn East and environs anywhere near Melton/Deer Park, especially to play on Hawthorn owned pokies?

At a guess, if 50 per annum made it that far, it would be an absolute miracle.
 

Kappa

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$2.7b is an incredible number, nearly $500 for every single Victorian per year. I assume the vast majority wouldn't put a cent into one in any given year (either through being too young/old/incapacitated or simply don't like them much), and it becomes thousands in losses for every actual player.

And just from reading bigfooty, I gather the pokies are concentrated more in lower income areas. Astonishing.
If casino pokies are included, there are plenty of high rollers who pour millions into pokies, particularly from China where they are banned...

A huge amount of that money comes from overseas and interstate visitors...
 

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Ned_Flanders

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A large part of their constituency comes from those very same leafy suburbs: above average education; above average income; no shortage of political clout...but...no pokies allowed within coo-ee!

So what's the natural response for a club like Hawthorn?

To re-locate somewhere diametrically opposed to its roots: below average education; below average income; zero political clout...AND...not only pokies, lots of pokies, endless pokies, but the ability to completely fleece those least able to afford it (and who, more than likely, have nothing to do with the Hawthorn FC).

Put another way, what are the odds that you will find someone from Hawthorn/Hawthorn East and environs anywhere near Melton/Deer Park, especially to play on Hawthorn owned pokies?

At a guess, if 50 per annum made it that far, it would be an absolute miracle.
pretty good - hawks are one of the most supported sides in melbourne thanks to the bandwagon effect of the 80's and the threepeat

do you rage against stkilda being in working class moorabin instead of the beachside suburb of stkilda?

or Melbourne being in Casey instead of East Melbourne?

or Essendon in Tullamarine instead of Essendon?

or Collingwood being in Melbourne instead of Collingwood?
 

threesixpio

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A large part of their constituency comes from those very same leafy suburbs: above average education; above average income; no shortage of political clout...but...no pokies allowed within coo-ee!

So what's the natural response for a club like Hawthorn?

To re-locate somewhere diametrically opposed to its roots: below average education; below average income; zero political clout...AND...not only pokies, lots of pokies, endless pokies, but the ability to completely fleece those least able to afford it (and who, more than likely, have nothing to do with the Hawthorn FC).

Put another way, what are the odds that you will find someone from Hawthorn/Hawthorn East and environs anywhere near Melton/Deer Park, especially to play on Hawthorn owned pokies?

At a guess, if 50 per annum made it that far, it would be an absolute miracle.
Brian Lake lived in Caroline Springs. His kids followed the Hawks

Suffer
In
Your
Jocks
 

Rob

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A large part of their constituency comes from those very same leafy suburbs: above average education; above average income; no shortage of political clout...but...no pokies allowed within coo-ee!

So what's the natural response for a club like Hawthorn?

To re-locate somewhere diametrically opposed to its roots: below average education; below average income; zero political clout...AND...not only pokies, lots of pokies, endless pokies, but the ability to completely fleece those least able to afford it (and who, more than likely, have nothing to do with the Hawthorn FC).

Put another way, what are the odds that you will find someone from Hawthorn/Hawthorn East and environs anywhere near Melton/Deer Park, especially to play on Hawthorn owned pokies?

At a guess, if 50 per annum made it that far, it would be an absolute miracle.
Who cares?

To paraphrase the great Sir Humphrey Appleby, you're either in the business or you aren't. If you are, then inevitably you'll end up putting them in areas where people want to play them.

In short, why the hell would Hawthorn put them in areas where few people are interested? They're in this to make money.
 

Gigantor

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Who cares?

To paraphrase the great Sir Humphrey Appleby, you're either in the business or you aren't. If you are, then inevitably you'll end up putting them in areas where people want to play them.

In short, why the hell would Hawthorn put them in areas where few people are interested? They're in this to make money.
Ah, but it's not about being able to put them in areas where few people are interested.
In the leafy Eastern suburbs which gave birth to Hawthorn, with above average education, above average salaries, and political clout to spare, there are no pokies.
I repeat: no pokies.
Not allowed.
The people most capable of losing tens of thousands of dollars per annum on pokies do not allow them in their suburb.
So, Hawthorn follow your advice.
Go to an area with below average education, below average salaries, but with a above average propensity to blow all of your income on pokies.
Of course, a certain Trumpian form of logic says all of that is good. Couldn't be better. The best thing imaginable!
 

telsor

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Ah, but it's not about being able to put them in areas where few people are interested.
In the leafy Eastern suburbs which gave birth to Hawthorn, with above average education, above average salaries, and political clout to spare, there are no pokies.
I repeat: no pokies.
Not allowed.
The people most capable of losing tens of thousands of dollars per annum on pokies do not allow them in their suburb.
So, Hawthorn follow your advice.
Go to an area with below average education, below average salaries, but with a above average propensity to blow all of your income on pokies.
Of course, a certain Trumpian form of logic says all of that is good. Couldn't be better. The best thing imaginable!
Pokies exist where they make the highest profits. The locations reflect that.

They ARE allowed in Hawthorn, it's just not profitable for them to do that (high rents and lack of suitable ready made locations being an issue I'd imagine).

Do you think that if Hawthorn sold it's gaming machines & venues to someone else, who continued to operate them in exactly the same locations, that would in some way be better? How so?
 

robbieando

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In the leafy Eastern suburbs which gave birth to Hawthorn, with above average education, above average salaries, and political clout to spare, there are no pokies.
I repeat: no pokies.
Not allowed.
You talk complete sh*t.

There are four pokies venues in City of Boroondara which Hawthorn is apart of. You have two venues in Hawthorn alone in the Riversdale Hotel and Tower Hotel alone. Then you have pokies venues such as the Palace Hotel in Camberwell the next suburb over and the Harp of Erin Hotel in Kew the suburb above.

There are 6 venues in the City of Stonnington taking in Prahran and Malvern and 7 venues for the City of Manningham taking in Doncaster, Bulleen and Templestowe.

So much for you dribble of pokies not being allowed in the Eastern Suburbs. Never heard such sh*t in my life.

As for Political clout, a quick question for you who is the local state member of parliament for the Hawks Waverley Gardens pokies venue and do they have political clout in this state?
 

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Johnny Bananas

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If you are a junkie or a gambling addict, who's choice is it to blast up or drop a weeks wages into a machine? Get help and stop being a selfish irresponsible child.
Yes, shaking a mental illness is just that easy, huh?

Who cares?
Anyone who wants to see the AFL put morals above dollars for once.

Do you think that if Hawthorn sold it's gaming machines & venues to someone else, who continued to operate them in exactly the same locations, that would in some way be better? How so?
Yes, it would be better. I expect capitalists to be utterly shameless in their greed, but I expect better of organisations like football clubs that claim to be beneficial for the community. Capitalists at least are required to pay tax (even if they mostly avoid them), football clubs are not.
 

Gigantor

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You talk complete sh*t.

There are four pokies venues in City of Boroondara which Hawthorn is apart of. You have two venues in Hawthorn alone in the Riversdale Hotel and Tower Hotel alone. Then you have pokies venues such as the Palace Hotel in Camberwell the next suburb over and the Harp of Erin Hotel in Kew the suburb above.

There are 6 venues in the City of Stonnington taking in Prahran and Malvern and 7 venues for the City of Manningham taking in Doncaster, Bulleen and Templestowe.

So much for you dribble of pokies not being allowed in the Eastern Suburbs. Never heard such sh*t in my life.

As for Political clout, a quick question for you who is the local state member of parliament for the Hawks Waverley Gardens pokies venue and do they have political clout in this state?
A couple of pubs have a handful of pokies.
Ok then, I"m sure that's comparable to what Hawthorn has in Deer Park.
If the residents of Hawthorn East don't wish to frequent a pub, they can make the long journey to the other end of town and visit the salubrious surrounds of Deer Park. Mix with their brethren. I'm sure the residents of Hawthorn East can identify with their compatriots in Deer Park.
It would be as if they are twins, merely separated by time and space.
 

Rob

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Ah, but it's not about being able to put them in areas where few people are interested.
In the leafy Eastern suburbs which gave birth to Hawthorn, with above average education, above average salaries, and political clout to spare, there are no pokies.
I repeat: no pokies.
Not allowed.
The people most capable of losing tens of thousands of dollars per annum on pokies do not allow them in their suburb.
So, Hawthorn follow your advice.
Go to an area with below average education, below average salaries, but with a above average propensity to blow all of your income on pokies.
Of course, a certain Trumpian form of logic says all of that is good. Couldn't be better. The best thing imaginable!
So you want them to operate them illegally in an area where they aren't allowed?

If you want them outlawed, talk to your local MP. And unless you're a member of Hawthorn, I doubt they give a rats ass what you think.

There's plenty wrong with pokies (and i'm happy we don't have them in WA), but football clubs aren't a moral arbiter of what's right and wrong. Selling off your pokies just so someone else can operate them makes precisely fu** all difference to the community, and I don't have any admiration for clubs that do it. If they wanted to make a difference, then keep the licence and don't operate the machines.
 

Kwality

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Yes, shaking a mental illness is just that easy, huh?


Anyone who wants to see the AFL put morals above dollars for once.


Yes, it would be better. I expect capitalists to be utterly shameless in their greed, but I expect better of organisations like football clubs that claim to be beneficial for the community. Capitalists at least are required to pay tax (even if they mostly avoid them), football clubs are not.
Pokies are tax raisers for the States that have them.
WA is punished in the GST hand back by limiting them to a casino.

Go bananas all you like over the issue but its only about money for the clubs that profit from them
& its only about raising taxes for the States.
 

Bunk Moreland

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So you want them to operate them illegally in an area where they aren't allowed?

If you want them outlawed, talk to your local MP. And unless you're a member of Hawthorn, I doubt they give a rats ass what you think.

There's plenty wrong with pokies (and i'm happy we don't have them in WA), but football clubs aren't a moral arbiter of what's right and wrong. Selling off your pokies just so someone else can operate them makes precisely fu** all difference to the community, and I don't have any admiration for clubs that do it. If they wanted to make a difference, then keep the licence and don't operate the machines.
I’m happy for them to sell them but when they publicise it like it’s some community service... seriously, get f’ed. You’re taking a great big bomb of cash for them because their new owners will keep making a killing from them from the same “gamblers”.

Sell them? How about you hold the entitlements but shut the machines?

How about you put all the sale price into problem gambling research?

Thought not.
 

Chubberson

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How much time have you actually spent with addicts, understanding their issues and asking them about their thought process?
If it's part of a bigger problem like some sort of significant social demography disadvantage, life changing abuse or trauma in earlier life then an addict deserves help. If it's by selfish choice then they are idiots.
 

Gralin

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A couple of pubs have a handful of pokies.
Ok then, I"m sure that's comparable to what Hawthorn has in Deer Park.
If the residents of Hawthorn East don't wish to frequent a pub, they can make the long journey to the other end of town and visit the salubrious surrounds of Deer Park. Mix with their brethren. I'm sure the residents of Hawthorn East can identify with their compatriots in Deer Park.
It would be as if they are twins, merely separated by time and space.
You should probably try dealing in facts if you want people to agree with you.

I know it's less fun when you have to research and opinion and find out its invalid but your copy paste efforts aren't getting you anywhere so why not try something new?
 

Gigantor

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You should probably try dealing in facts if you want people to agree with you.

I know it's less fun when you have to research and opinion and find out its invalid but your copy paste efforts aren't getting you anywhere so why not try something new?
People often accuse me of copy paste efforts.
I don't need to do that, I'm an old fashioned user of a keyboard and can touch type. I type very quickly. Never need to do any copy and paste.
Ever.
The thing that gets me is the support for Hawthorn, who hail from the leafy Eastern suburbs, to run mega pokie facilities in the poorest part of town, miles and miles away from their main constituency.
People come out in big numbers supporting them. Not actual Hawthorn supporters mind you, but supporters of other clubs.
Supporters of other clubs come out supporting Hawthorn's inalienable right to establish a pokie emporium in one of the poorest parts of Melbourne, where they can fleece money from people least capable of losing money.
Now the residents of Hawthorn East have double, maybe triple the disposable income of the residents of Deer Park.
Why isn't Hawthorn taking pokie money from the residents of Hawthorn East?
1. Because they would not be allowed to establish such a pokie emporium in the leafy Eastern suburbs, and
2. Even if they did establish such a facility, would it mean they would take double or triple the takings that they get in Deer Park? Of course not!
Why not?
Because people of that education and income level do NOT put 5% to 25% of their disposable income into pokies.
A quirk of pokies is that the people most able to lose money on pokies do not spend a cent on them.
Those least able to lose money on them, blow it all.
And that is why we find Hawthorn far, far away from their main constituency, in Deer Park, far, far away from the leafy Eastern suburbs.
Now someone like you may wish to applaud Hawthorn's efforts in ruining the lives of many people in far away Deer Park, but I prefer to stick to what's right and call it out.
 

BringBackTorps

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Jan 5, 2017
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1. The Age G. Baum 21.8.17

Baum said, re respected & experienced finance journalist A. Kohler

"Kohler said he hated pokies.'Yeah, so do I' said Goyder" (AFLC Chairman).

"The context is that Victorians lost about $94m last year on pokies owned by football clubs (Vic. AFL clubs- my words) at 17 venues around Melbourne".



2. Poker machines are vile, & create enormous levels of human misery/family breakups/devestation etc.

Their nos. are vastly & cynically overrepresented in cities, & regions in the countryside, where persons on much lower socio-economic backgrounds reside.

The lower income demographics, by a very wide margin, are the major victims of the vile machines- which are psychologically designed to be addictive for many vulnerable people.

Fortunately, their future is very doubtful now (at least generating the revenues they have traditionally attracted).
All people who want to play in NSW will need to first apply- & await a lengthy delivery- for a govt. supplied Pre-Commitment Card (The legislation is certain to be introduced in NSW, as the NSW LNP govt. has obtained majority support in the Upper House).
Pokie dens will become totally cashless, ID will be required to play, & losses will be limited to the loss that the player previously nominated for themselves. Relatives etc. can apply to have problem gamblers banned from all dens.

Details of the NSW legislation, the many billions of $ that punters have lost in Aust., the human misery they cause etc., are in these links

(See points 2 & 3; also posts 303 & 340 in that same Thread)
 
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