VIC fans - merge, relocate or relegate?

Which is the least worst option?

  • Merge with another Vic club

    Votes: 22 17.3%
  • Relocate interstate

    Votes: 65 51.2%
  • Drop down to the VFL

    Votes: 40 31.5%

  • Total voters
    127

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Roylion

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Oct 17, 2000
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On the grounds that the yes vote was manipulated with fraudulent proxy votes
So a court would have to establish that the proxy votes were fraudulent. How would they do this? Bill Guest's action may not have been strictly ethical, but how were they illegal? Is it illegal for a non-Melbourne supporter to join the club as a voting member? Are proxy votes illegal? Supporters of other clubs joined the Brisbane Lions in the premiership years to increase their chances of picking up a Grand Final ticket.

and that MFC members were disenfranchised and unable to exercise their right to vote.
How would a court establish this?

Considering the margins were so thin it wouldn't have taken much for the challenge to prove both if these factors led to the yes vote getting up
'Wouldn't have taken much'? How would they prove the Demon Alternative's claims?
 
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Roylion

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However what I can say is the positions are different,
Are they? How?

Dyson Hore-Lacy was also actively seeking the merger of his club. In other words a North Melbourne - Fitzroy merger. He was one of three Fitzroy directors responsible for negotiating the terms of the merger. Just as Ian Ridley was.

Ridley had to protect the narrative he and his board had created around there being majority support for the merger and the reasons behind it.
Did he? In 2001 Ridley said (and I quote) "...."I am very happy that the Melbourne Football Club retained its own identity." His book was published in 2002.

The merger was sought because Ridley and the board thought MFC was not financially viable so wanted to takeover HFCs assets to secure the future. 25 years later and we're still alive and kicking so he was wrong about that as well despite his intimate knowledge.
Well yes.

That's because the climate is now different from what it was in 1996 where the AFL poicy was for Victorian clubs to merge. The AFL were throwing millions of dollars at clubs to merge.

But given that he quite candidly explains how the process of seeking a merger came about what happened and the events that led the merger to fail, why wouldn't his account be reliable?
 

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Roylion

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Roylion I've already explained the above, it's clear we have a difference of opinion so not sure there's any point continuing to go round in circles
We don't actually. I'm opposed to mergers.

But I'm still not clear on what grounds "the 'pro-merger' vote would not have held up to a court challenge." as you claimed. All you've done is present the claims of the Demon Alternative.
 

Twoslabs

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Just my 10c worth re divisions with promotion & relegation, I don't think it would work due to the travel cost.

The Australian area is 7.692 million sq km, where as England for example 130 thousand sq km (smaller than Victoria at 227) this reduces the reliance on air travel and the associated costs.
 

JohnZ

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Just my 10c worth re divisions with promotion & relegation, I don't think it would work due to the travel cost.

The Australian area is 7.692 million sq km, where as England for example 130 thousand sq km (smaller than Victoria at 227) this reduces the reliance on air travel and the associated costs.
The AFL already regularly schedules games in all of the places I listed as new teams to take the comp to 24 teams.

If it was 48/60+ teams across 4/5 divisions then I agree it becomes a bit too much, but a 2 division, 24 team comp would be just as manageable as the current 18 team comp.
 

Cubs2Lions

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The AFL already regularly schedules games in all of the places I listed as new teams to take the comp to 24 teams.

If it was 48/60+ teams across 4/5 divisions then I agree it becomes a bit too much, but a 2 division, 24 team comp would be just as manageable as the current 18 team comp.
I agree with that meaning as the gap between high performing Div 1 clubs & low performing Div 2 clubs would just be too big to compete with IMO.

I think that in the future (40-50 years), Divisions/Conferences could work in favour to help equal the league to the fairest it could possible be.

I decided to break the competition into two difference Conferences (Eastern/Western) during some free time and this was the best I could design in regards to the amount interstate/Victoria clubs and also by fairness of the league without getting rid of any of the VIC teams we have now.

Credit for JohnZ & Engimal v3 for the team suggestions and conferences idea as well:

2050 Australian Football League Season

Eastern Conference (AFLEC) A

Brisbane Lions (Queensland) (GABBA)
Gold Coast Suns (Queensland) (Metricon Stadium)
North Queensland Crocodiles (Queensland) (2050) (New Cairns/Townsville Stadiums)
Sydney Swans (New South Wales) (Sydney Cricket Ground)
Western Sydney Giants (New South Wales) (Spotless Stadium)
North Sydney Rangers (New South Wales) (2040) (New North Sydney Stadium)
Canberra Cockatoos (Australian Capital Territory) (2030) (Redeveloped Manuka Oval)
Carlton Blues (Victoria) (Melbourne Cricket Ground)
Essendon Bombers (Victoria) (Marvel Stadium)
Hawthorn Hawks (Victoria) (Marvel Stadium)
North Melbourne Kangaroos (Victoria) (Marvel Stadium)
Richmond Tigers (Victoria) (Melbourne Cricket Ground)

Western Conference (AFLWC) B

Adelaide Crows (South Australia) (Adelaide Oval)
Port Adelaide Power (South Australia) (Adelaide Oval)
Darwin Sharks (Northern Territory) (2050) (New Darwin/Alice Springs Stadiums)
West Coast Eagles (Western Australia) (Perth Stadium)
Fremantle Dockers (Western Australia) (Perth Stadium)
Perth Falcons (Western Australia) (2040) (Perth Stadium)
Tasmania Devils (Tasmania) (2030) (Redeveloped Blundstone Arena/University of Tasmania Stadium)
Collingwood Magpies (Victoria) (Melbourne Cricket Ground)
Footscray Bulldogs (Victoria) (Marvel Stadium)
Geelong Cats (Victoria) (Karidina Park)
Melbourne Demons (Victoria) (Melbourne Cricket Ground)
St. Kilda Saints (Victoria) (Marvel Stadium)

Each conference has 12 clubs placed in them similar to what JohnZ created with 5 teams in heartland Victoria and 7 interstate teams. All of the current NSW/QLD teams + Canberra, North Queensland & North Sydney are placed in the Eastern Conference (must be a spread of MCG, Marvel & other grounds) while all of the current SA/WA teams + Darwin, Perth & Tasmania are placed in the Western Conference with the rest of the of the Victorian teams.

Each season would consist of 24 rounds with each team playing each other twice (9 home games & 9 away games) in their conference therefore translating into 18 rounds of football. The final 6 rounds of the regular rounds of the season would be crossover games (3 home & 3 away) similar to how the AFLW used to operate. However, the crossover games would be only be played against Interstate teams from one conference vs. Victorian teams from the other conference and the same would be for Victorian Teams from the Western Conference playing against Interstate teams from the Eastern Conference as stated below for example:

Crossover Round 1 (R19)
Brisbane Lions (A) vs. Tasmania Devils (B)
Adelaide Crows (B) vs. Canberra Cockatoos (A)
Collingwood Magpies (B) vs. Gold Coast Suns (A)
Carlton Blues (A) vs. Port Adelaide Power (B)
North Queensland Crocodiles (A) vs. Footscray Bulldogs (B)
Darwin Sharks (B) vs. Essendon Bombers (A)
Geelong Cats (B) vs. Sydney Swans (A)
Hawthorn Hawks (A) vs. West Coast Eagles (B)
Western Sydney Giants (A) vs. Melbourne Demons (B)
Fremantle Dockers (B) vs. North Melbourne Kangaroos (A)
St. Kilda Saints (B) vs. North Sydney Rangers (A)
Richmond Tigers (A) vs. Perth Falcons (B)

Unfortunately Canberra & Tasmania would have to be part of the Victorian teams set-up from both of their crossover games to make it equal travel time for the other teams as they are the nearest interstate teams to VIC. (6 teams VIC & 6 Interstate)

After the regular season of 24 rounds has been completed. The top 4 clubs with the best win-loss record from each conference would advance to the playoff knockout finals system similar to how it is presented below, with the Grand Final being rotated within different stadiums across the country with each city needing a minimal 50,000 capacity at one of their stadiums to be able to host the GF.

Week 1 Quarter Finals
A1 vs. B4
B2 vs. A3
B1 vs. A4
A2 vs. B3

Week 2 Semi Finals
Winner of Quarter Final 1 vs. Winner of Quarter Final 2 (Highest Placed Team Hosts)
Winner of Quarter Final 3 vs. Winner of Quarter Final 4 (Highest Placed Team Hosts)

Week 3 Grand Final
Winner of Semi-Final 1 vs. Winner of Semi-Final 2
(Rotating Cycle of Cities)-(Stadium Capacity of 50,000 Minimal)

In conclusion, I think this concept would make the fixturing a lot more not just for VIC teams but also Interstate teams as well and would make the league more competitive within those conferences & states.
 

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