Mega Thread VICBias - Genuine Discussion Part 2

[The Feeder Club]

I agree that it's silly to just look at the run home, but you've undoubtedly got the easiest opponents of the 9 teams jostling for final's position.

It's a really distinct top and bottom 9 this year. This is how many double ups the top 9 teams play against the other top 9 teams. Gold Coast with the hardest and the Cats with the easiest:

Gold Coast 6
Brisbane 5
Freo 5
Hawthorn 5
Collingwood 4
GWS 4
Adelaide 3
Dogs 3
Geelong 2

Unless I am misunderstanding what you are saying, your table can't be accurate. Each team only has six double up games across the whole season, there's no way so many teams could have all (gold coast) or 5/6 (three teams) of their double up games against fellow top 9 teams. Without checking every team's fixture, it doesn't seem possible

 

[sr36]

Unless I am misunderstanding what you are saying, your table can't be accurate. Each team only has six double up games across the whole season, there's no way so many teams could have all (gold coast) or 5/6 (three teams) of their double up games against fellow top 9 teams. Without checking every team's fixture, it doesn't seem possible

I counted manually from an AI generated list of double ups - the list could have been wrong.

Just checked from an article of double ups -
Gold Coast was wrong and a couple of others too high:

Brisbane hardest with 5
Geelong easiest with 2.

 

[kranky al]

At the MCG - Cats have a really big advantage at KP, whereas it's neutral or very close to at the MCG. It's beyond me how you don't seem to understand that big home advantage and a very small away disadvantage nets out very well.

But the real point is who the double ups are against. Cats have gotten lucky with easily the easiest draw of the 9 teams battling it out for a spot in the finals and positioning within the 8.

So we’ve established that it’s close at the mcg and not at all close at kp.

How many times have you played them at kp.

Where all the interstate teams play geelong at home.

Where the eagles say for instance have won once in the last 25 years

Where do you play them for finals

Where do you play them for the grand final.

 

[kranky al]

You played Hawks at Marvel.

Play that at either of the Hawks two preferred grounds MCG or Tassie, where the Hawks actually enjoy a ground advantage and you probably lose and finish 4th and never win the flag.

It should be pretty obvious that not playing teams at their preferred home ground is advantage to the away team.

If we lost to hawthorn it would come down to percentages - we could have come 2/3/4 depending on how much hawthorn won by. Our percentage was still higher than both hawthorn and Collingwood.

That year we had no fear of playing teams away - we beat most of the top 8 on the road including you lot. Saying for sure hawks would have won is revisionist af

 

[sr36]

So we’ve established that it’s close at the mcg and not at all close at kp.

How many times have you played them at kp.

Where all the interstate teams play geelong at home.

Where the eagles say for instance have won once in the last 25 years

Where do you play them for finals

Where do you play them for the grand final.

It's the strangest thing Kranky. You seem to think that where Collingwood plays the Cats affects WCE and where WCE plays the Cats affects Collingwood. It doesn't.

In terms of Melbourne clubs: Collingwood have a home and away HGA against the Cats. We have a home and away disadvantage against North, Dogs and Saints as those are nearly always at Docklands. With the other Vic teams it's neutral. Cats have a home and away disadvantage against Collingwood and whichever other team is an MCG away game at the time - I think it's Hawks at the moment? But they have a home and away advantage against the other Melbourne teams as KP is a much bigger advantage than the Melbourne venues are a disadvantage. None of which has any impact at all on the Non-Vic teams.

Now if you look at the Melb teams versus the Non-Vic teams. The Non-Vic teams all travel to Melb and play a lot more in the conditions and on the venues than the Vics do in reverse - so assumedly you'd have to think that that's an advantage to the Non-Vic teams in their head to head match ups. I assume you agree with that Kranky?

 

[sr36]

I am shocked - shocked I tell you - to find a flock of Magpies squawking about how easy Geelong have it in here again.

I'm shocked that Cats fans aren't willing to admit that they've gotten lucky this year and have been fixtured against less of the good teams than the other finals contenders. Despite it being a reality.

Hoping Cats finish higher than Brisbane on percentage, play them in a final and sqwak about how they've "earnt" a KP final against them - despite having played 3 less games against good teams than Brisbane will have.

It says a lot that even when you have gotten lucky with the fixture - without a shadow of doubt - you just can't admit it.

 

[doppleganger]

Now if you look at the Melb teams versus the Non-Vic teams. The Non-Vic teams all travel to Melb and play a lot more in the conditions and on the venues than the Vics do in reverse - so assumedly you'd have to think that that's an advantage to the Non-Vic teams in their head to head match ups. I assume you agree with that Kranky?

Kranky thinks Melbourne still enjoy a home ground advantage when they play WC in the Northern Territory.

 

[SuperSub17]

Saying for sure hawks would have won is revisionist af

Lolololololololol

Home and away advantage - “West Coast would’ve won no matter where the game was played”

GF - “Adelaide only lost 2017 by 10 goals because of the ground!!!!!!”

 

[JackOutback]

Get bent, West Coast haven’t played a team below them on the ladder all year, objectively the hardest draw.

 

[doppleganger]

Lolololololololol

Home and away advantage - “West Coast would’ve won no matter where the game was played”

GF - “Adelaide only lost 2017 by 10 goals because of the ground!!!!!!”

Absolute signature Kranky.

Pretends all the away games during H&A season where WC gets wins when they haven't actually had to play their opponent at their home groud are
genuine away games (home ground advantage isn't important then).

But when a team wins a GF by close to 10 goals, Kranky then decides it was the ground that mattered.

 

[The Feeder Club]

Kranky thinks Melbourne still enjoy a home ground advantage when they play WC in the Northern Territory.

Melbourne are forced to play home games there against their will, are they?

 

[Mr Meow]

I'm shocked that Cats fans aren't willing to admit that they've gotten lucky this year and have been fixtured against less of the good teams than the other finals contenders. Despite it being a reality.

Hoping Cats finish higher than Brisbane on percentage, play them in a final and sqwak about how they've "earnt" a KP final against them - despite having played 3 less games against good teams than Brisbane will have.

It says a lot that even when you have gotten lucky with the fixture - without a shadow of doubt - you just can't admit it.

Not really.

It was the 5th hardest upon release and then was rated the hardest for the first half of the season. We had half of our backline out against a few top teams at that stage and won anyway.

Nobody's denying it's a cruisy run to finish the season. There is considerable talk that a very soft run to end a season isn't necessarily a positive.

If we wanted an actual dream run then our double ups against good teams would've come against our bunnies - Collingwood and Hawthorn - rather than the two sides we suck against, GWS and Brisbane. We're 6-0 against the other top 9 teams this season.

 

[sr36]

Not really.

It was the 5th hardest upon release and then was rated the hardest for the first half of the season. We had half of our backline out against a few top teams at that stage and won anyway.

Nobody's denying it's a cruisy run to finish the season. There is considerable talk that a very soft run to end a season isn't necessarily a positive.

If we wanted an actual dream run then our double ups against good teams would've come against our bunnies - Collingwood and Hawthorn - rather than the two sides we suck against, GWS and Brisbane. We're 6-0 against the other top 9 teams this season.

It's not an easier fixture than the other top teams because you had some injuries? Or because of a preseason rating that went on how good teams were last year rather than this year. So Port was a really tough game and Adelaide an easy one? Really?

It's luck if the draw and a reality of teams not playing each other the same number of times, but Cats have an easier fixture than the rest of the finalists. It's just undeniable. You play less games against the good teams.

 

[doppleganger]

Melbourne are forced to play home games there against their will, are they?

Not sure what influence Melbourne players and footy department have in such matters.

But yes, let's adopt the Kranky approach of pretending Melbourne still enjoy a home advantage when playing a random game in the NT, and let's pretend they don't travel either....so he can claim WC overcome an away disadvantage.

 

[Mr Meow]

It's not an easier fixture than the other top teams because you had some injuries? Or because of a preseason rating that went on how good teams were last year rather than this year. So Port was a really tough game and Adelaide an easy one? Really?

It's luck if the draw and a reality of teams not playing each other the same number of times, but Cats have an easier fixture than the rest of the finalists. It's just undeniable. You play less games against the good teams.

I'm just saying, we went 6-0 against the decent teams who we weren't bunnies of while down on personell. Who's to say playing Brisbane and GWS one less time, but all of Collingwood, Hawthorn, Bulldogs and Adelaide twice wouldn't have been "easier" for us? Getting Brisbane and GWS twice was an automatic 4 losses.

 

[sr36]

I'm just saying, we went 6-0 against the decent teams who we weren't bunnies of while down on personell. Who's to say playing Brisbane and GWS one less time, but all of Collingwood, Hawthorn, Bulldogs and Adelaide twice wouldn't have been "easier" for us? Getting Brisbane and GWS twice was an automatic 4 losses.

You shouldn't be concerned if that's the case - I don't think anyone will win the flag without going through at least one of those two.

 

[The Feeder Club]

Not sure what influence Melbourne players and footy department have in such matters.

But yes, let's adopt the Kranky approach of pretending Melbourne still enjoy a home advantage when playing a random game in the NT, and let's pretend they don't travel either....so he can claim WC overcome an away disadvantage.

Are you saying Melbourne has no say in having their home game scheduled in NT?

 

[Mr Meow]

You shouldn't be concerned if that's the case - I don't think anyone will win the flag without going through at least one of those two.

Likely. I don't think Geelong will win the flag. We're outsiders. Not a dud team, not an outstanding team. Like most years.

 

[sr36]

Likely. I don't think Geelong will win the flag. We're outsiders. Not a dud team, not an outstanding team. Like most years.

Tend to agree. GWS or Collingwood this year.

However, it's been pretty funny reading you trying to suggest that playing less of the good teams has not been an advantageous fixture

 

[doppleganger]

Are you saying Melbourne has no say in having their home game scheduled in NT?

Saying that AFL forced them to not have all their home games at the G.

Instead of playing at Marvel and losing money, the commercial people decide to sell it.

It should be obvious that the disadvantaged clubs are the ones who are travelling and playing home games at random venues all over Australia.

North now gifting Freo an extra home game, but yes let's pretend it is still a home ground advantage game to North because they chose to sell it....that is the Kranky position.

 

[sr36]

Saying that AFL forced them to not have all their home games at the G.

Instead of playing at Marvel and losing money, the commercial people decide to sell it.

It should be obvious that the disadvantaged clubs are the ones who are travelling and playing home games at random venues all over Australia.

North now gifting Freo an extra home game, but yes let's pretend it is still a home ground advantage game to North because they chose to sell it....that is the Kranky position.

In the Land of Krank, North playing WCE in Bunbury is an advantage to Collingwood because Collingwood never play in Bunbury. And a disadvantage to WCE because they might have to play Melbourne in Alice Springs one year.

 

[The Feeder Club]

Saying that AFL forced them to not have all their home games at the G.

Instead of playing at Marvel and losing money, the commercial people decide to sell it.

It should be obvious that the disadvantaged clubs are the ones who are travelling and playing home games at random venues all over Australia.

North now gifting Freo an extra home game, but yes let's pretend it is still a home ground advantage game to North because they chose to sell it....that is the Kranky position.

II'll deal with your north example later, i am glad you brought that up. But before then, you still haven't answered the question. Did Melbourne voluntarily enter into a commercial deal to play games in the NT, or are you suggesting they're playing there against their will?

 

[doppleganger]

II'll deal with your north example later, i am glad you brought that up. But before then, you still haven't answered the question. Did Melbourne voluntarily enter into a commercial deal to play games in the NT, or are you suggesting they're playing there against their will?

In 1999 the Melbourne football club played all 11 homes games at the MCG.

In 2000 the AFL forced Melbourne to play home games at their shiny new ground Docklands. Melbourne ground rationalisation was imposed on the Melbourne clubs by the AFL.

In 2001, Melbourne started trying to sell their so called Docklands home games. Already giving up home ground, so at least may as well make some $$. First by playing "home games" at the GABBA against Brisbane.

But yes, Melbourne chose to sell it so still enjoy a home ground advantage despite playing at their opponents home ground (who now face a genuine away disadvantage game)...that is the moronic position held by WA wowsers.

 

[The Feeder Club]

In 1999 the Melbourne football club played all 11 homes games at the MCG.

In 2000 the AFL forced Melbourne to play home games at their shiny new ground Docklands. Melbourne ground rationalisation was imposed on the Melbourne clubs by the AFL.

In 2001, Melbourne started trying to sell their so called Docklands home games. Already giving up home ground, so at least may as well make some $$. First by playing "home games" at the GABBA against Brisbane.

But yes, Melbourne chose to sell it so still enjoy a home ground advantage despite playing at their opponents home ground (who now face a genuine away disadvantage game)...that is the moronic position held by WA wowsers.

For the fouth time, a simple question. Please try and answer only that question, rather than flooding the zone with irrelevancies. Are Melbourne forced to play home games in the NT against their will?

 

[doppleganger]

For the fouth time, a simple question. Please try and answer only that question, rather than flooding the zone with irrelevancies. Are Melbourne forced to play home games in the NT against their will?

For the 4th time

In response to AFL imposed Melbourne ground rationalisation, where the AFL moved Dees home games from the MCG, the Melbourne commercial team decided that it is better for them to make $$ by trying to sell their Docklands games, where they had already given up home ground advantage.

It ain't a hard concept to follow, it is the Dees who are dudded when playing a home game in QLD or the NT...not their opponent.