Mega Thread VICBias - Genuine Discussion Part 2

[sr36]

Personally I think it's a good thing that staying up the top or sliding down for a potential slingshot back up are options. Both carry risks. I guess the teams punished have been those in no man's land, who avoid the advantages either of the above options presents. Then again Geelong weren't too far off that between '98 and '06. Being well run is still the best advantage there is.

Hawks show that you can rise back up if you nail the recruiting. The issue though is once a team has been down too long, they're on the nose and they're stuffed, unable to retain players for a reasonable salary and having to pay heaps to poach players.

I quite like the St Kilda approach. Overpay in the hope it can get you back up - at which point you can become a more desired destination that doesn't have to overpay. And if it doesn't work they're where they would have remained anyway, so it'll be time to try it again.

 

[Chronz]

The Big 3 Victorian teams Geelong, Hawthorn and Collingwood into prelim week, to be joined by one of the QLD Nepos.

Why are we so much better than these interstate teams? They've all had far superior handouts and god knows what other leg ups over the years. It's just unbelievable isn't it?

 

[go_the_dockers]

Why do Non-Vics think Vic supporters automatically want a Vic side to win a game? Simply not true. Our long held club rivalries mean much more than any club from another state.

A Collingwood/Geelong GF would be my worst nightmare but is looking likely. Last year was wonderful, Brisbane beat Geelong in the PF so I was able to sit back and watch the GF the next week and not mind who won.

We don’t dislike Non-Vic sides, we dislike some fellow Vic sides far more.

If you had a choice to create a rule that favoured Vic clubs or non Vic clubs which one would you pick?

That is why.

 

[Macca180]

´Victorians and the MCG isn't fair (only when we lose there. If we win it's fine.)´

boooooooooooooooooo

Right in front of me.

 

[PiCkLeJuiCe]

If you had a choice to create a rule that favoured Vic clubs or non Vic clubs which one would you pick?

That is why.

Same logic, if you had a choice to create a rule that favoured WA teams, then you'd be wanting the WCE to win if Freo couldn't.

 

[MisterMarcus]

Yep. The half of the equation that's always forgotten is that a team like the Cats have been consistently disadvantaged by the system as they've been good for 2 decades and have thus had crap draft picks.

It's taken a combination of good management, natural advantages and luck to remain up the top for so long considering the draft disadvantage they've had.

But the wasy things have changed with the draft and the salary cap, it's become harder to rise and easier to remain at the top.

We've absolutely nailed some late picks and 'rough diamond out of nowhere' type selections over recent years.

I pointed out on another thread, I think it was 14 of our starting 23 from the QF came from the rookie draft, late picks, or some sort of unexpected/unusual pathway.

 

[go_the_dockers]

Same logic, if you had a choice to create a rule that favoured WA teams, then you'd be wanting the WCE to win if Freo couldn't.

Of course. That is why we think Vic buss exists, especially when 95 percent of AFL officials are based in Victoria.

Plus the numerous rules favouring Vic sides

 

[PiCkLeJuiCe]

Of course. That is why we think Vic buss exists, especially when 95 percent of AFL officials are based in Victoria.

Plus the numerous rules favouring Vic sides

Without doing a poll, I'm be confident 95% of Victorian and South Australians would barrack for anyone else against their most hated rival. I would think the same in WA too given the hatred I read between Toaster and Docker fans here

 

[sr36]

We've absolutely nailed some late picks and 'rough diamond out of nowhere' type selections over recent years.

I pointed out on another thread, I think it was 14 of our starting 23 from the QF came from the rookie draft, late picks, or some sort of unexpected/unusual pathway.

I think a lot of it is development. The rest of the comp has bought into getting 50 games into them as soon as possible. Meanwhile Cats wait until their ready. So a talented kid like Dempsey comes in cocky and capable of taking the game on. Whereas at other clubs he would have played before he was ready, been shit, and lost some of that confidence.

 

[sr36]

Plus the numerous rules favouring Vic sides

Do you want to elaborate?

 

[VinnieB]

We've absolutely nailed some late picks and 'rough diamond out of nowhere' type selections over recent years.

I pointed out on another thread, I think it was 14 of our starting 23 from the QF came from the rookie draft, late picks, or some sort of unexpected/unusual pathway.

The national draft, mid-season draft, rookie draft, pre-season pick ups, free agency are all opportunities to build a list.

Those that nail it, move up to better things. Those that fail, remain uncompetitive.

Blame your club, not the system.

 

[PenfoldsFan]

Without doing a poll, I'm be confident 95% of Victorian and South Australians would barrack for anyone else against their most hated rival. I would think the same in WA too given the hatred I read between Toaster and Docker fans here

Because they're suckers for divide and conquer.

I mean, fair enough on game day of a derby, showdown, Qclash or battle of the bridge, naturally you pick your side, but when as a collective we get the wrong end of the pineapple from the Vic centric administration/media/ adjudicators, we need to set aside our tribalism for the good of the cause.

As I always say, talk is cheap, and whilst fans of Vic clubs on BF will swear black and blue they wouldnt want another Vic club to have success, they're not controlling the narrative and so while the sentiment is reasonable, the reality from those pulling the strings is vastly different.

Anyone who thought Eddie announcing the MCG/GF deal with that smug look on his face wasnt flipping the bird at anyone outside Victoria has blinkers on.

 

[WilloTree]

2012: Jared Rivers
2015: Scott Selwood
2018: Luke Dahlhaus
2020: Isaac 'Norm' Smith (32 or 33 years old)

That's Geelong's free agency haul.

No it's not

 

[go_the_dockers]

Do you want to elaborate?

GF, father son, free agency, Marquee games

 

[Pistol Night]

GF, father son, free agency, Marquee games

Brisbane may disagree with most of those being Vic only advantages

 

[go_the_dockers]

Brisbane may disagree with most of those being Vic only advantages

That don't advantage the SA and WA sides that is for sure.

Yeah, Sydney and Brisbane get some of the advantages when they are going well.

Maybe Big Vic clubs plus Brisbane and Sydney Bias - how does that sound ??

 

[MisterMarcus]

The national draft, mid-season draft, rookie draft, pre-season pick ups, free agency are all opportunities to build a list.

Those that nail it, move up to better things. Those that fail, remain uncompetitive.

Blame your club, not the system.

Yeah it definitely starts giving me less sympathy for clubs who have a bounty of top picks and still struggle, whereas other clubs can find a random bloke outside the system at pick 50 and turn them into a quality player.

 

[go_the_dockers]

Yeah it definitely starts giving me less sympathy for clubs who have a bounty of top picks and still struggle, whereas other clubs can find a random bloke outside the system at pick 50 and turn them into a quality player.

How would Geelong go with out Cameron, Smith, Dangerfield and ........

 

[MisterMarcus]

How would Geelong go with out Cameron, Smith, Dangerfield and ........

That's only 3 of our current best 23.

Bowes, Martin and Stengle were actively booted out of their previous clubs, and the latter two had risks attached due to injury and 'lifestyle choices'.

Everyone else from the QF was talent we drafted ourselves - and as I said, a large part of which were from late picks, rookies, or unconventional pathways.

 

[go_the_dockers]

That's only 3 of our current best 23.

Bowes, Martin and Stengle were actively booted out of their previous clubs, and the latter two had risks attached due to injury and 'lifestyle choices'.

Everyone else from the QF was talent we drafted ourselves - and as I said, a large part of which were from late picks, rookies, or unconventional pathways.

Take those 3 out of your side, you are not a top 4 side. I doubt you are top 8.

Yes, your recruitment is very good but with out the ability for clubs to top up it is very hard to reach top 4 and win a flag.

 

[MisterMarcus]

Take those 3 out of your side, you are not a top 4 side. I doubt you are top 8.

Yes, your recruitment is very good but with out the ability for clubs to top up it is very hard to reach top 4 and win a flag.

You guys got Jackson, Clark, Bolton, O'Meara.... all of which came from traditionally 'big' and/or recently successful Victorian teams.

No VicBias in Freo's ability to top up with players that help you reach the Top 8.

 

[Pistol Night]

How would Geelong go with out Cameron, Smith, Dangerfield and ........

Cotton On

 

[sr36]

GF, father son, free agency, Marquee games

I can't believe you're going with recruiting rules.

FA advantages all the good teams, particularly those with additional recruiting pulls - which obviously includes Collingwood and Geelong - but also the WA teams with a large number of go home recruits and as if QLD climate and lifestyle isn't a strong draw to a lot of players.

Father Son is pot luck for 14 teams - Port and Freo probably still have a small disadvantage and the two more recent expansion teams are obviously basically locked out.

Meanwhile the Academies disadvantage Victorian teams - both in terms of the Northern acdemies and that SA and WA teams now having NGA academies with vastly more potential.

Oh, and the most influential recruting rule of them all is the national draft, which disadvantages all the good teams - including the Vic teams that you consider to be hugely advantaged by the rules.

 

[go_the_dockers]

I can't believe you're going with recruiting rules.

FA advantages all the good teams, particularly those with additional recruiting pulls - which obviously includes Collingwood and Geelong - but also the WA teams with a large number of go home recruits and as if QLD climate and lifestyle isn't a strong draw to a lot of players.

Father Son is pot luck for 14 teams - Port and Freo probably still have a small disadvantage and the two more recent expansion teams are obviously basically locked out.

Meanwhile the Academies disadvantage Victorian teams - both in terms of the Northern acdemies and that SA and WA teams now having NGA academies with vastly more potential.

Oh, and the most influential recruting rule of them all is the national draft, which disadvantages all the good teams - including the Vic teams that you consider to be hugely advantaged by the rules.

The same NGA's that only applied to vic clubs and excluded SA and WA clubs until pick 40. yeah, what a big disadvantage.


Free agency has been a dud for WA and SA clubs. I am still waiting for Buddy to head home.

The facts are that the Big Vic clubs have dominated premierships tally the last 20 years.

 

[sr36]

You guys got Jackson, Clark, Bolton, O'Meara.... all of which came from traditionally 'big' and/or recently successful Victorian teams.

No VicBias in Freo's ability to top up with players that help you reach the Top 8.

Plus a heap of other high profile go home recruits that didn't work out for Freo for various reasons. Guys like Hogan, Hill, Macarthy Lobb were in demand and wouldn't have chosen a battling Vic team if they were returning to Victoria - Free agency is great for the WA teams - as the state has the highest ratio of players from the state compared to clubs from the state.