Opinion VICBias - Genuine Discussion

kranky al

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The head parochial nitwit is actually a South Australian the commission chairman is a West Australian. Anyway l don't believe some are capable of thinking gor themselves and get sucked in by media outlets with their own agenda.

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And stalin was a georgian - guess who got f%}#^ over harder than most places in the ussr....

whenyou are part of an organisation you toe the party line and become part of the culture or you dont advance.
 

kranky al

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Sigh. A shitty pre season game in Gero is big news in WA, I get that.

In the actual season see,the AFL has sold the broadcast rights.

And Seven didn't pay to televise ro advertise games out of Gero.

Advertisers at grounds like the MCG pay more than what Mick's Sheep Shit and Ammo Shop in Gero pays.

There's a whole football economy beyond crowds.

Yeah, let's just relocate the whole comp, 9 games a week, to South Australia coz once a pre season game got televised from Gero.
No we are talking about relocating the game because theres a virus thats shut the whole world down, has shut our comp down and is going to shut it down again because pathetic parochial bovine thinkers cant see past a state border.
 

JeanLucGoddard

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No we are talking about relocating the game because theres a virus thats shut the whole world down, has shut our comp down and is going to shut it down again because pathetic parochial bovine thinkers cant see past a state border.
Where exactly are nine games a week going to be played in South Australia? Wired to full broadcast standard?

When there's already three perfectly good grounds in Victoria.
 

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kranky al

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Where exactly are nine games a week going to be played in South Australia? Wired to full broadcast standard?

When there's already three perfectly good grounds in coVidtoria.
Ask yourself that same question in a month or so

When the league gets shut down again because covid.

You are making out like its the biggest thing in the world to wire up a ground for broadcast - and yet its literally done every year in the preseason.
 

Topkent

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Home ground advantage is also used to playing on the dimensions of the ground.

Why didn't the Crows supporters get the opportunity to fill 50% of the seats in the 2017 grand finals... because of the stupid MCC members deal... so Richmond end up with the bulk of the crowd.

You are clearly blind on this issue...
The MCG dimensions don't change week to week 😂 you're talking a few meters here and there. Clearly opposition teams are absoloute morons who instinctively kick it into the crowd


So wait you think all MCC memberships are Richmond supporters ?
 

Ace It Up

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Again you use the original 20 week hub article. Dangerfield, as the AFLPA President and spokesperson said some players not keen (for various reasons) on hub. Nowhere in the article does it say only and all Victorians against hub. Do you automatically assume he didn't consult with players from non-vic teams - it appears you do. Again you have shot yourself in the foot. You have posted an article that fails to support your dribble.
 

kranky al

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Again you use the original 20 week hub article. Dangerfield, as the AFLPA President and spokesperson said some players not keen (for various reasons) on hub. Nowhere in the article does it say only and all Victorians against hub. Do you automatically assume he didn't consult with players from non-vic teams - it appears you do. Again you have shot yourself in the foot. You have posted an article that fails to support your dribble.
Well im guessing - and this is just a guess right - i could be wrong here

but seeing as the hubs were going to be in sa and wa that the wa and sa players werent going to be against it.

And as its turned out - its the wa and sa players that now have to move and the aflpa is silent on this....
 

kranky al

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For all the talk of struggling Vic clubs the reality is only West Coast and Adelaide qualify as Big Clubs.

Freo is strongish but will need AFL assistance to get through COVID.

Sydney are established now but see above.

Port have had significant issues with their finances.

The remainder are as or more reliant on the AFL than any Vic club.

And yes, the TV rights and expansion blah blah, but let's not pretend here.

There is no way there'll ever be a breakaway league.
If there were a breakaway league it wouldnt be a bloke with ten bucks in his back pocket and 4 days till payday.....

It would come with a tv rights deal and a new afl organisation that would use the tv rights money to fund the new league.

anyways its all idle speculation at this stage - maybe one day amazon ....
 

Ace It Up

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Well im guessing - and this is just a guess right - i could be wrong here

but seeing as the hubs were going to be in sa and wa that the wa and sa players werent going to be against it.

And as its turned out - its the wa and sa players that now have to move and the aflpa is silent on this....
The WA & SA boys are on board. They've hitched their wagons and are awaiting to leave. So what would you like to hear from the AFLPA?
 

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Carringbush2010

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Assuming the breakaway league was financed with deep pockets - noones paying a billion dollars for the broadcast rights to the vfl.

so revenue is lower - players arent paid as much then the breakaway comp without the minnow clubs forcing lower salary caps and football departments start poaching.

Wouldnt take long for the big clubs to see the writing on the wall - the new league issues an invitation for the first 5 clubs out of collingwood, essendon, richmond, hawthorn, geelong, carlton to sign up to the new comp are in the rest are out unless they relocate.
Umm no, the bulk of the market (where the revenue comes from) - more than half of it is in vic, that's why there's these 'bias' discussions in the 1st place.

If in theory say Twiggy or Gina decided to stump up a break away league, ask yourself do you think all the vic fans who support clubs that have been around since the inception of electricity are just gonna dump their clubs in favour of a breakaway? They're gonna sit on the couch to watch their teams not a breakaway league.

Good luck proving your theory.

To further establish the market forces (or in the case for some of you the cause of the 'bias') the vic population outnumbers all other footy heartland including nt and tas combined by nearly 1.5 million people.

That's not to say a break away league wouldn't work, but to suggest it would be the number one dog in town is folly. I reckon there's enough market to support it (minus the vic market) but it'd be like it was before the VFL expansion,the vfl would be the highest profile league - driven by the market of course.
 

kranky al

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Umm no, the bulk of the market (where the revenue comes from) - more than half of it is in vic, that's why there's these 'bias' discussions in the 1st place.

If in theory say Twiggy or Gina decided to stump up a break away league, ask yourself do you think all the vic fans who support clubs that have been around since the inception of electricity are just gonna dump their clubs in favour of a breakaway? They're gonna sit on the couch to watch their teams not a breakaway league.

Good luck proving your theory.

To further establish the market forces (or in the case for some of you the cause of the 'bias') the vic population outnumbers all other footy heartland including nt and tas combined by nearly 1.5 million people.

That's not to say a break away league wouldn't work, but to suggest it would be the number one dog in town is folly. I reckon there's enough market to support it (minus the vic market) but it'd be like it was before the VFL expansion,the vfl would be the highest profile league - driven by the market of course.
The proviso with a breakaway league would have to involve more money than the clubs are getting atm

So instead of a 12.45 million dollar salary cap we now have the breakaway league with a 20 million salary cap.

then the vfl has the option of trying to match it - sending the minnow clubs broke - or stay as it is and watch their best players leave for double the money. All this whilst getting a money crunch as a vic only comp isnt worth as much as an all aus comp.

let me tell you from hard experience - theres nothing more demoralising than every few years unearthing talent, developing it and just as it starts to pay off, they leave you as theres much much better money elsewhere.

we watched our best players leave for years - your clubs will know this.

the vfl then becomes a feeder comp - the big vic clubs arent stupid - they will see the writing on the wall - given the choice of being feeder clubs or big clubs in the top league id say they will jump.

especially if you offer one less place than there are big clubs....
 

Carringbush2010

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Here in Victoria we love our clubs by an exponential factor more than we do any individual player. There's no way I would support any other side than the Richmond Tigers if a breakaway league formed. I can understand the interstate supporters who's teams have been around for 20-30 years just changing clubs based on a new comp but no chance that happening with the Vic clubs.
I think this pretty much sums up most vic fans, they ain't leavin their club for nuffin. Even Fitzroy fans to this day follow them in the VAFA (and none of them bother with the AFL).
 

kranky al

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I think this pretty much sums up most vic fans, they ain't leavin their club for nuffin. Even Fitzroy fans to this day follow them in the VAFA (and none of them bother with the AFL).
Absolutely - the idea behind the breakaway league would be to poach around 6 of the biggest vic clubs
 
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Carringbush2010

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Someone nailed it previously but the AFL isn't Vicbias. It's money bias.

AFL is run like a company now and therefore all decisions are made to maximize profits and security.

The G deal will always be a sore spot and an absolute trigger for anyone living outside of Melbourne. It was seemingly done without consultation of any of the teams or supporters. It boggles the mind why anyone would sign such a long term and short sighted deal?

Why not make it a year by year decision? States/stadiums could've bid on hosting the grand final much like countries bid on the Olympics.

If that happens to be the MCG 9 times out of 10 because that's where the money is, then so be it. But at least its a transparent and equal process (ie anyone can bid and win). Perhaps with a disclaimer of ~42k seats min being required (ie Gabba or bigger). Stadiums below that thresh-hold can still bid but they'd need to pay X amount for every seat under that number down to a minimum of say 30k seats assuming the ground is up to AFL standards.

Then set a cap on the number of years in advance the GF can be auctioned off (say 3-5years in advance similar to the Olympics).

It opens up possibilities and growth and elevates our copy/paste game into a yearly moving festival/event.

Pop-up beer gardens / restaurants etc can operate outside the main event and host even more people with big screens plastered around for atmosphere.

Beyond the G deal, I can stomach the rest. It is what it is. There are more teams in Victoria than anywhere else so naturally that''s where AFL's efforts/broadcast etc are concentrated.
One of the few who get it and don't insist it's down to emotive perspective.
 

Carringbush2010

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The OP is all over the shop starting with the entire premise that interstate teams joined the VFL. That isn't what happened. A whole new league was formed when the VFL ended and AFL was born. Why can't Victorians get that?
It's not a 'whole new league' though is it, it's just the VFL expanded. That's what it is in reality. So there is nothing to get.

A lot of posters on here who are convinced that HQ is 'biased' from an emotive perspective - they aren't, they're money biased like the rest of the world. Why can't non vics get that?
 

Carringbush2010

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Your statement ignores the state of Australian Rules football around the country at the time.

Research seems to be a forgotten skill these days.

All state competitions - the VFL, WAFL, SANFL etc - were broke. The VFL was poaching all the best players from WA and SA. By 1986 there were close to 40 of WA's best players playing in the VFL. It was affecting the quality of the WAFL and no doubt the SAFL.

All leagues were moving, albeit slowly, to professionalism.

Various senior people in and around football had written detailed reports stating the need for a national league. In these reports - and I have read all of them - the over-arching concept was a for truly national competition. One report even detailed new teams and a timeline.

Anyway, the VFL was deemed the strongest at the time so it was assumed over time that a national competition would see some of those clubs disappear over time, as Ross Oakley tried to do. In fact, Ross Oakley's ideal model was a 14-team competition - six clubs from Victoria, two from WA, two from SA, two from QLD and two from NSW.

The West Coast Eagles and the Brisbane Lions each paid $4 million each to join the then expanded VFL competition in 1986. They were given vastly reduced squads of 35 each and the Eagles even played matches on a Sunday afternoon and then backed up on a Friday night.

The WAFL and SANFL thought it was the only way they would survive and from reading detailed internal reports from WA they were completely oblivious to the effect of forming the West Coast Eagles would have on the WAFL.

When it became the AFL in 1990, it was supposed to become a true national competition increasing the number of clubs from different states.

Without writing a thesis, the underlying presumption that a truly national competition would be fair and equal and not different rules for different clubs, as happens now.

A truly national competition was the only way Australian Rules football was going to survive in this state. So, it was a question of survival.
You've just explained where Oakley forget a major factor in his vision. At the time there were 11 clubs from vic when WC and bears came in.

His ideal model in theory is great but in reality flawed, he forgot about the fan bases of 5 of those clubs...................... fast forward to 1996 and the AFL cornered Fitzroy into surrendering their licence to make way for Port in 1997........................... fast forward a couple of years later and HQ realised the bulk of the Roys fans were not going to come back. Regret sets in.

......................... Fast forward to now and there are STILL 10 clubs in vic, if you could put two and two together it's obvious that the market is still viable for those 10 clubs.

In short: Fans = revenue, more than half the league's revenue = vic.

That last statement you could literally end the thread right there.
 

JeanLucGoddard

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Ask yourself that same question in a month or so

When the league gets shut down again because covid.

You are making out like its the biggest thing in the world to wire up a ground for broadcast - and yet its literally done every year in the preseason.
You're refusing to answer the question.

Yes, some grounds can be wired with lots of prep time and cost to provide less than ideal quality broadcasts in pre season.

But where are the grounds in SA for nine games a week. Where will the teams stay. Will the SA Government let them and their families in.

Your hatred of Victoria is quite bizarre. You're inventing things whole clothe.

Envy I think is more accurate. Just get over it.
 

JeanLucGoddard

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If there were a breakaway league it wouldnt be a bloke with ten bucks in his back pocket and 4 days till payday.....

It would come with a tv rights deal and a new afl organisation that would use the tv rights money to fund the new league.

anyways its all idle speculation at this stage - maybe one day amazon ....
So again like RUNVS the big plan is to reinvent everything that's ever happened in footy history because viccos suck.

We invented footy. That's why it is based here. Get over it.
 

JeanLucGoddard

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Absolutely - the idea behind the breakaway league would be to poach around 6 of the biggest vic clubs
Magic fantasy land stuff.

Remember the discussion about the MCG and the AFL and Victorian clubs.

How tight that relationship is and how many $$$ are involved?

There's not going to be some breakaway league.

Just get over it.
 

JeanLucGoddard

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You've just explained where Oakley forget a major factor in his vision. At the time there were 11 clubs from vic when WC and bears came in.

His ideal model in theory is great but in reality flawed, he forgot about the fan bases of 5 of those clubs...................... fast forward to 1996 and the AFL cornered Fitzroy into surrendering their licence to make way for Port in 1997........................... fast forward a couple of years later and HQ realised the bulk of the Roys fans were not going to come back. Regret sets in.

......................... Fast forward to now and there are STILL 10 clubs in vic, if you could put two and two together it's obvious that the market is still viable for those 10 clubs.

In short: Fans = revenue, more than half the league's revenue = vic.

That last statement you could literally end the thread right there.
The AFL knows that killing clubs is not worth the pain and the North Gold Coast experience shows that clubs can't be bribed to leave either.
 

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