Opinion VICBias - Genuine Discussion

[Ambrose Burnside]

How many times have West Coast been to York Park in the past 5 years? How about the last decade??

And how many times have Freo been in that time period? Port? Brisbane? And how many time have Richmond, Collingwood, Hawthorn and Essendon been? This isn't just a West Coast thing.

So now you're complaining about the Eagles having to spend an extra 20 minutes on the bus to get to Blacktown Oval (instead of the Sydney Showgrounnds) in 2012 when the Giants were playing their 3rd ever game.

You really don't see anything wrong with the team that has to travel the most ... has to travel even further than they should have to?

How's this then? Jack Martin hasn't even played 100 games and has already played at 17 different venues. Alan Didak played over 200 games and only played at 6 venues. Just a feeling or facts?

Why would Hawthorn want to play high attendance games in Tasmania anyway?

Why the * should Hawthorn be able to choose who they play in Tassie compared to Melbourne? Imagine the Eagles and Dockers saying "We have 11 home games, we're only going to play the teams that finished in the top 10 plus derby rival, we'll play our away teams against the poor teams thanks."

Do you mean like 2019 when Richmond played both Adelaide and Port Adelaide at Adelaide Oval? 2019 had the following either double up travel or back to back travel (this was a quick look so there may be more or there may be a mistake or two)
Carlton - Syd/GWS both away
Collingwood - WCE/GWS back to back away (via bye), Sydney away
Essendon - Syd/GWS both away, WCE/Fre both away
Geelong - Ade/Por both away
Hawthorn - Syd/GWS both in away
Melbourne - GCS/WCE back to back away
North Melbourne - Bri/GCS both away
Richmond - Ade/Por both away, GWS/Por back to back away
Western Bulldogs - WCE/Fre both away

The toughest trip is the Perth trip, surprise, surprise the only team that copped that one was a small Vic club. Has a big Vic club ever had to do it?

As the AFL run on dollars clubs that draw attendances, eyeballs and thus sponsorship historically will always be front and centre. It isn't a bias towards Victorian teams, it's a bias towards money to keep the distribution money high enough for the smaller clubs to keep the doors open.

Bias isn't just Eddie Mcguire and friends sitting in a room together smoking fat cigars and plotting, it's accepting and perpetuating such a messed up system. What you're saying is that the only way small Vic clubs can survive is if they get screwed over with fixturing and non Vic clubs have to travel more than they should. And everyone should be grateful for this.

Far out.

What is your argument here?

That it is ridiculous that vic clubs sell home gameS and end up having to travel, sleep away from home and their regular fans!? Agree again

When it comes to small Vic clubs, that is exactly my argument. Why the * is this acceptable?

 

[Senor M]

You really don't see anything wrong with the team that has to travel the most ... has to travel even further than they should have to?

How's this then? Jack Martin hasn't even played 100 games and has already played at 17 different venues. Alan Didak played over 200 games and only played at 6 venues. Just a feeling or facts?

I’m not saying that West Coast don’t travel more than other teams—- that’s true.

But complaining that West Coast had to play one game at Blacktown Oval 8 seasons ago during GWS’ first season as an example of #VICBIAS is just irrational & turns the #VICBIAS sentiment into a joke.

You want us to take #VICBIAS seriously— discuss it seriously, not complaining about a trip to Blacktown Oval 8 years ago because the Sydney Showground was being used for its original purpose.

 

[hawkman]

The toughest trip is the Perth trip, surprise, surprise the only team that copped that one was a small Vic club. Has a big Vic club ever had to do it?

Yes as the post you quoted shows Essendon last year

 

[Gibbke]

We need footy back just to end this bullshit...

 

[nick1408]

And how many times have Freo been in that time period? Port? Brisbane? And how many time have Richmond, Collingwood, Hawthorn and Essendon been? This isn't just a West Coast thing.

Hawthorn have been like 64 times....

You really don't see anything wrong with the team that has to travel the most ... has to travel even further than they should have to?

How's this then? Jack Martin hasn't even played 100 games and has already played at 17 different venues. Alan Didak played over 200 games and only played at 6 venues. Just a feeling or facts?

Does the number of venues matter or the amount of times there? didak played 12 years and did 9 trips to Perth, 8 to Brisbane, 10 to Sydney (all at Stadium Australia interestingly) and 12 to Adelaide. Didak never had the opportunity to play in China, Ballarat, Carrara, Townsville, Optus Stadium or Alice Springs as those grounds weren't used in Didak's career. Manuka was only used twice in Didak's career, Sydney Showgrounds came online in 2013 when Didak only played 5 games.

6 venues vs 8 isn't too bad in my books.

Why the fu** should Hawthorn be able to choose who they play in Tassie compared to Melbourne? Imagine the Eagles and Dockers saying "We have 11 home games, we're only going to play the teams that finished in the top 10 plus derby rival, we'll play our away teams against the poor teams thanks."

Why not? The whole point of Hawthorn and North Melbourne playing in Tasmania is to make money, not lose it. They aren't playing there for a competitive advantage. They could stay in Melbourne for that. They're trying to maximise the value of their lowest drawing matches.

I'm sure if West Coast sold games to another venue they could play their low drawing matches there.

The toughest trip is the Perth trip, surprise, surprise the only team that copped that one was a small Vic club. Has a big Vic club ever had to do it?

It was one year - 2019. To answer your question Richmond doubled up in Perth in 2016, 2013, 2009, 2008, 2007, 2006 (didn't go back further than that). Collingwood 2018, 2007, 2002 (again, as far back as I went). Essendon 2016, 2015, 2013, 2011, 2009, 2008, 2007 (as far back as I went).

Bias isn't just Eddie Mcguire and friends sitting in a room together smoking fat cigars and plotting, it's accepting and perpetuating such a messed up system. What you're saying is that the only way small Vic clubs can survive is if they get screwed over with fixturing and non Vic clubs have to travel more than they should. And everyone should be grateful for this.

Far out.

I agree with you but ultimately it's a business. If it was a true home and away fixture (i.e. 34 games) there would be less need to fixture high earning games twice like Fremantle vs West Coast as that would happen naturally. Right now they need to fixture games like Adelaide vs Port Adelaide twice and the income is spread around the league.

My belief is Hawthorn, North Melbourne etc are travelling more than they should as well (along with their members losing out on home games). Interestingly, North Melbourne crowds have been declining at Belrieve since 2016.

I fully believe that the AFL wouldn't bother fixturing some low drawing matches if they could but they'd never get away with it.

When it comes to small Vic clubs, that is exactly my argument. Why the fu** is this acceptable?

This isn't directed at me so I'll leave it alone.

 

[SunshineBoy]

'Early Christmas present': MCG tenant clubs get multi-million-dollar windfall

Pies, Dees, Tigers, Hawks, Blues and Dons will each receive home game payments estimated at between $150,000 and $200,000 per match for the remainder of the shortened season.

www.theage.com.au

#VICBIAS

 

[SunshineBoy]

#VICBIAS

 

[RonnieRaven]

He played in a superior league. You're not comparing apples with apples

Farmer kicked 81 goals in 17 state games ~5 a game with “inferior” supply against “superior” opposition.
Ablett kicked 43 goals in 11 games
~4 a game with “superior” supply against “inferior” opposition.
Does that help you with context?

 

[Grin]

LOL

Would have to be one of the dumbest posts I've ever read.

Congratulations.

Strong argument. Well reasoned.

The amount of scientific non bias material explaining how travel impacts recovery and injury management is extensive. But hey, lets come up with something so simple (and bias) to use instead of scientific non bias facts to support your 'straw man' argument and claim victory.

The likelihood of non-Vic clubs making the 8, the 4 the grand final and winning the premiership is greater than for Vic clubs. There is both no measurable injustice and no evidence of a net disadvantage to interstate clubs because of travel. Not a single shred.
However I do understand using reason, evidence and facts is no match for your overwhelming feelings of entitlement.

Whatever makes you happy buddy!!!!

Another strongly constructed and reasoned argument. You're a mental giant.

 

[kreglze]

'Early Christmas present': MCG tenant clubs get multi-million-dollar windfall

Pies, Dees, Tigers, Hawks, Blues and Dons will each receive home game payments estimated at between $150,000 and $200,000 per match for the remainder of the shortened season.

www.theage.com.au

#VICBIAS

 

[Do the Dew]

And how many times have Freo been in that time period? Port? Brisbane? And how many time have Richmond, Collingwood, Hawthorn and Essendon been? This isn't just a West Coast thing.



You really don't see anything wrong with the team that has to travel the most ... has to travel even further than they should have to?

How's this then? Jack Martin hasn't even played 100 games and has already played at 17 different venues. Alan Didak played over 200 games and only played at 6 venues. Just a feeling or facts?



Why the fu** should Hawthorn be able to choose who they play in Tassie compared to Melbourne? Imagine the Eagles and Dockers saying "We have 11 home games, we're only going to play the teams that finished in the top 10 plus derby rival, we'll play our away teams against the poor teams thanks."



The toughest trip is the Perth trip, surprise, surprise the only team that copped that one was a small Vic club. Has a big Vic club ever had to do it?



Bias isn't just Eddie Mcguire and friends sitting in a room together smoking fat cigars and plotting, it's accepting and perpetuating such a messed up system. What you're saying is that the only way small Vic clubs can survive is if they get screwed over with fixturing and non Vic clubs have to travel more than they should. And everyone should be grateful for this.

Far out.



When it comes to small Vic clubs, that is exactly my argument. Why the fu** is this acceptable?

To add on, prior to COVID, Richmond were supposed to travel to Perth in Rd. 5 (vs WCE) and Rd. 23 (vs Freo) in 2020.

 

[manicmagpie]

I can't believe how biased the MCC is towards Vic clubs.

 

[kreglze]

I can't believe how biased the MCC is towards Vic clubs.

The one thing that does interest me about all of this is the big role the MCC has in influencing the AFL competition. I am not aware anywhere in the world, or any domestic league competitions of a stadium board wielding such power and influence.

 

[Senor M]

To add on, prior to COVID, Richmond were supposed to travel to Perth in Rd. 5 (vs WCE) and Rd. 23 (vs Freo) in 2020.

....but a Round 5 away game to the Eagles is now apparently another example of #VICBIAS

 

[Final Siren]

Anyone interested in digging into the roots of home ground advantage, there's a good ABC article up today:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06...rounds-that-give-home-teams-the-edge/12311344

 

[go_the_dockers]

The only near football issue I have ever seen of any Vicbias is the GF at the MCG. And to play there is a commercial decision not a football decision.
I agree some AFL decisions have promoted certain Melbourne clubs but its probably more to the detriment of other Melbourne clubs than those out of Melbourne.
Those who continue on about travel... what? If its that bad get your club to relocate to Melbourne, play their 10 away games in a row and stay home for the rest of the season (sarcasm)
Seriously Melbourne has a population of about 5.1 mill (not sure if it includes Geelong) so 1 team for about every 500K people.
Perth 2.4 mill for two teams or 1.2 mill per person. Adelaide nearly 1.8 mill for 2 teams - 900k each.

Maybe Covid19 will force the issue. Could 2 Melbourne teams relocate to Perth and 1 to Adelaide? Easy to say, my team are probably safe.

But as for bias. Nah.

As for the media - what do you expect? I was in QLD in 2017 when the Storm beat Nth Qld in the NRL GF. The papers went with Maroons players win GF. Maybe parochialism more than bias. Same happens in very state with AFL.

Except for the NGA which was given to the Victorian clubs before the SA and WA clubs, and still indigenous players in Melbourne are treated different to indigenous players in Adelaide and Perth.

Is this not Bias?

 

[nick1408]

Anyone interested in digging into the roots of home ground advantage, there's a good ABC article up today:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06...rounds-that-give-home-teams-the-edge/12311344

Pretty much backs up the anecdotal evidence I posted about Bundesliga games since their return. Good to see and also puts a bit of evidence to the "noise of affirmation"

 

[manicmagpie]

I'm having a quiet chuckle at the thought that this deal by the MCC would make this season probably the one time it would actually financially benefit Geelong to play some home games there and it's the one time they're not going to.

 

[Frank Grimes]

The one thing that does interest me about all of this is the big role the MCC has in influencing the AFL competition. I am not aware anywhere in the world, or any domestic league competitions of a stadium board wielding such power and influence.

I think you are right about the influence of the MCC. It is certainly in their interest to keep the Grand Final at the MCG and will move heaven and earth to keep it there. If the Grand Final was played elsewhere then the MCC will lose perhaps it's biggest draw card for the MCC membership.

I personally agree ideally the Grand Final should be played at the higher finishing teams home state providing they have a stadium with at least a 60,000 capacity so a decent amount of fans can watch the game at the ground.

 

[Robertio]

Except for the NGA which was given to the Victorian clubs before the SA and WA clubs, and still indigenous players in Melbourne are treated different to indigenous players in Adelaide and Perth.

Is this not Bias?

That's about the 50th time you've mentioned this, Fremantle picked up a NGA kid last year exactly the way Vic,QLD and NSW clubs do.

 

[Ambrose Burnside]

I agree with you but ultimately it's a business.

Well, that's me out An acknowledgement of bias that benefits the big Vic clubs was all I was hoping for, even if, as a supporter of a big Vic club, your instiunct is to wave it away.

I'd probably do the same if I supported a big Vic club, it's human nature.

Hopefully it evolves towards a fairer system for all.

 

[go_the_dockers]

That's about the 50th time you've mentioned this, Fremantle picked up a NGA kid last year exactly the way Vic,QLD and NSW clubs do.

Just because we got one, does mean it was fair.



I have seen financial reasons 1000 times from Vic supporters.

 

[Robertio]

Just because we got one, does mean it was fair.



I have seen financial reasons 1000 times from Vic supporters.

There's a lot of clubs that haven't got any players out of the NGA system.

 

[go_the_dockers]

There's a lot of clubs that haven't got any players out of the NGA system.

Just because we get one player from a remote region does not make it fair.

I think the afl negotiating the Vic nba deal before sa and WA an example of Vic bias.

Why would they not negotiate them at the same time?
Why two different deals.


Surely we are at the point where we can create one set of rules, and then make minor changes for developing markets.

Why do SA, WA and Vic sides have different rules applied to them.

 

[Robertio]

Just because we get one player from a remote region does not make it fair.

I think the afl negotiating the Vic nba deal before sa and WA an example of Vic bias.

Why would they not negotiate them at the same time?
Why two different deals.


Surely we are at the point where we can create one set of rules, and then make minor changes for developing markets.

Why do SA, WA and Vic sides have different rules applied to them.

I don't know why mate, but it didn't stop Freo getting Liam Henry in the first round last year, after Carlton had placed a bid.