VicPol.

Need to know a bit more about this, but right now I have to ask why tasers were not deployed on the
Monash today.
Its very strange that a bean bag round was deployed, yet no tasers. I can only imagine that the police, because of the proximity of civilian vehicles, were way to close to this disturbed individual, meaning when he did move on them with a knife they had to use lethal force.
Much prefer that tasers were used, or in the least the police had tried to disable his legs, not his chest.
Are they trained this way? If not, why not?

If it gets to the point where a firearm is used, you shoot to 'centre of body mass'. There is no aiming for the big toe or other such fanciful stuff. The idea is to stop the threat and the greatest chance of that is to hit the largest part of the threat in front of you. The justification of using that firearm is another conversation.
 

jonmacTrag

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If it gets to the point where a firearm is used, you shoot to 'centre of body mass'. There is no aiming for the big toe or other such fanciful stuff. The idea is to stop the threat and the greatest chance of that is to hit the largest part of the threat in front of you. The justification of using that firearm is another conversation.
The notion of going for minimal injury when an individual assaults you with a lethal weapon is fanciful pacifist bullshit.
Eliminate the threat immediately in the most efficient way possible.
There is always another thing to take into account in these cases - if an individual is hardened enough to attack a police officer they are a deadly danger to everyone in whatever community they are living in.
 
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If it gets to the point where a firearm is used, you shoot to 'centre of body mass'. There is no aiming for the big toe or other such fanciful stuff. The idea is to stop the threat and the greatest chance of that is to hit the largest part of the threat in front of you. The justification of using that firearm is another conversation.
Your last sentence sums it up.
Unless the assailant has a firearm it’s hard to justify using a firearm when other options are available.
 
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The notion of going for minimal injury when an individual assaults you with a lethal weapon is fanciful pacifist bullshit.
Eliminate the threat immediately in the most efficient way possible.
There is always another thing to take into account in these cases - if an individual is hardened enough to attack a police officer they are a deadly danger to everyone in whatever community they are living in.
Ah, “pacifist bullshit”?
Lets hope none of your loved ones ever has an episode where they are confronted by poorly trained officers who resort to the firearm as first option.
There is a place for firearms use of course, but if possible they should never be first option. And the case that bought this discussion up was one of those cases.
 

jonmacTrag

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Ah, “pacifist bullshit”?
Lets hope none of your loved ones ever has an episode where they are confronted by poorly trained officers who resort to the firearm as first option.
There is a place for firearms use of course, but if possible they should never be first option. And the case that bought this discussion up was one of those cases.
Let's hope none of your loved ones never dies because they have to wait half an hour a lethally armed raving lunatic for emergency services respond.
Typical half baked pacifist reply.
There is a difference between having an armed deterrence and going to war but your type simply won't acknowledge that.
 
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Let's hope none of your loved ones never dies because they have to wait half an hour a lethally armed raving lunatic for emergency services respond.
Typical half baked pacifist reply.
There is a difference between having an armed deterrence and going to war but your type simply won't acknowledge that.
The incident the initial post was made was on the Monash Freeway.
The person shot didn’t have a gun. He was not lethally armed on a rampage.
Like most who cant, or wont, see the forest for the trees, you are making stuff up to reinforce your incorrect views.
I have never been against appropriate force being used. I am against inappropriate force being used.
If you can’t make the distinction, then there’s no hope for you.
Sorry.
 

Kappa

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The incident the initial post was made was on the Monash Freeway.
The person shot didn’t have a gun. He was not lethally armed on a rampage.
Like most who cant, or wont, see the forest for the trees, you are making stuff up to reinforce your incorrect views.
I have never been against appropriate force being used. I am against inappropriate force being used.
If you can’t make the distinction, then there’s no hope for you.
Sorry.

Having a knife is being armed, you are wrong again.
 
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Having a knife is being armed, you are wrong again.
A knife isn’t about to be the weapon of mass murder, like a gun is.
Against several police, with tasers, battens and yes guns, he is, and was, no match.
You omitted one word from my comment to try and reinforce your incorrect viewpoint. Cheating.
Suppose that makes you wrong, again.
 

Kappa

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A knife isn’t about to be the weapon of mass murder, like a gun is.
Against several police, with tasers, battens and yes guns, he is, and was, no match.
You omitted one word from my comment to try and reinforce your incorrect viewpoint. Cheating.
Suppose that makes you wrong, again.

You make the assumption that a man with a knife can't kill or seriously wound a police officer, complete rubbish.

You make the assumption that non-lethal methods like tasers are always effective, complete rubbish.

You want police to use batons (battens :drunk: :thumbsu: ) against knife wielding criminals... LOL

"no match"... it's not about 5 police being able to take one knife wielding scum you muppet, it's about all 5 of them being able to go home to their families that night.
 
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You make the assumption that a man with a knife can't kill or seriously wound a police officer, complete rubbish.

You make the assumption that non-lethal methods like tasers are always effective, complete rubbish.

You want police to use batons (battens :drunk: :thumbsu: ) against knife wielding criminals... LOL

"no match"... it's not about 5 police being able to take one knife wielding scum you muppet, it's about all 5 of them being able to go home to their families that night.
You are really not on this planet are you?
I actually don’t think I’ve ever seen you post anywhere but in response to my posts.
Thats ok, everyone needs a stalker.
I suppose you’re also happy with the excess of Aboriginal deaths in custody? Happy with police knees on throats? You simply don’t understand that mismatch of 5 police officers with all types of alternatives against one person with a knife and that person loses their life.
Its poor training, or poor selection of people charged with protecting life.
I note that you have not one thing to say about the now completed court case that has found police guilty of assault.
Not a word because it doesn’t suit your agenda.
 

Kappa

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You are really not on this planet are you?
I actually don’t think I’ve ever seen you post anywhere but in response to my posts.
Thats ok, everyone needs a stalker.
I suppose you’re also happy with the excess of Aboriginal deaths in custody? Happy with police knees on throats? You simply don’t understand that mismatch of 5 police officers with all types of alternatives against one person with a knife and that person loses their life.
Its poor training, or poor selection of people charged with protecting life.
I note that you have not one thing to say about the now completed court case that has found police guilty of assault.
Not a word because it doesn’t suit your agenda.

Yes, all my 18k posts are in reply to you. Delusion 101.

You do realise that aboriginals die in custody less often than white people right? You do understand that? No I'm not happy with police knees on throats, what a dumb argument. If you pull a knife on cops and try to stab them, they are well within their right to use lethal force to protect themselves from dying.

I've never said Police don't do bad things, some police do assault people, but you still don't understand that isn't my point. You blindly hate all police and even authority figures, you have issues likely stemming from your childhood to be anti-authority and it's so childish it's laughable.
 

Markfs

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I think the majority of police do the right thing in a difficult job. The american context happens in an environment where blacks and whites dont mix much and there are a lot of blacks close to crime because of the lack of employment. But nothing justifies choking someone or shooting someone when they are running away from you. Here i think there is so much disrespect and suspicion for indigenous people it seeps into everything. I cant see how the situation in both countries is going to improve in isolation if the wider society issues arent improved.

I'm not optimistic. I remember as a kid seeing a lot of protests by young people to stop wars, to bring peace and love etc..... and then they grew up being just as materialistic and more self-centred than their parents.
 
You do realise that aboriginals die in custody less often than white people right?
Not sure that there is an accurate source for this statement as there seem to be only figures for deaths in prison and not police custody which are two separate issues.

Further, it is a fact that Indigenous Australians are the most incarcerated people in the world.
 

Kappa

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Not sure that there is an accurate source for this statement as there seem to be only figures for deaths in prison and not police custody which are two separate issues.

Further, it is a fact that Indigenous Australians are the most incarcerated people in the world.

Can you find reliable sources that proves Aboriginals die in custody at a higher rate than White Australians?
 
Can you find reliable sources that proves Aboriginals die in custody at a higher rate than White Australians?
Huh? Maybe you can provide sources?

What was it that you didn't understand in:

Not sure that there is an accurate source for this statement as there seem to be only figures for deaths in prison and not police custody which are two separate issues.
 

Kappa

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Huh? Maybe you can provide sources?

What was it that you didn't understand in:

Not sure that there is an accurate source for this statement as there seem to be only figures for deaths in prison and not police custody which are two separate issues.


Jeezus, you really don't understand how this works do you?

When people make the outrageous claim that aboriginals are dying in custody are a very high rate and its linked to systemic racism, they need strong evidence to back that up, understand?

But anyway, just to prove you wrong again here's another source from an official government paper.


"With reference to police custody, it was not possible to calculate rates of death due to lack of reliable data, but there was no clear trend over the reference period based on raw numbers. The number of deaths in police custody in each year was "relatively small", with a total of 146 Indigenous deaths over the 25-year period. The largest number occurred in 2002–03 and 2004–05 (11 each), and the lowest in 2013–14 (1). As to the manner of death, 47% (68) of Indigenous deaths in police custody were classified as accidental with 57% (39) of these during motor vehicle pursuits and 19% (13) during another type of pursuit. Natural causes accounted for 21% (31), self-inflicted deaths 19% (28), "justifiable homicide" 7% (10) and "unlawful homicide" 5% (8). 56% (82) of Indigenous deaths were classified as deaths in which officers were not in close contact, while the remaining 44% (64) were deaths in which officers were in close contact with the deceased. This proportion was reflected similarly in the stats for non-Indigenous deaths in police custody (333 and 262 respectively) "


 
Jeezus, you really don't understand how this works do you?

When people make the outrageous claim that aboriginals are dying in custody are a very high rate and its linked to systemic racism, they need strong evidence to back that up, understand?

But anyway, just to prove you wrong again here's another source from an official government paper.


"With reference to police custody, it was not possible to calculate rates of death due to lack of reliable data, but there was no clear trend over the reference period based on raw numbers. The number of deaths in police custody in each year was "relatively small", with a total of 146 Indigenous deaths over the 25-year period. The largest number occurred in 2002–03 and 2004–05 (11 each), and the lowest in 2013–14 (1). As to the manner of death, 47% (68) of Indigenous deaths in police custody were classified as accidental with 57% (39) of these during motor vehicle pursuits and 19% (13) during another type of pursuit. Natural causes accounted for 21% (31), self-inflicted deaths 19% (28), "justifiable homicide" 7% (10) and "unlawful homicide" 5% (8). 56% (82) of Indigenous deaths were classified as deaths in which officers were not in close contact, while the remaining 44% (64) were deaths in which officers were in close contact with the deceased. This proportion was reflected similarly in the stats for non-Indigenous deaths in police custody (333 and 262 respectively) "


Don't think you really understand how this works. I wasn't linking it to racism, didn't even mention it.

I was just clarifying statement in your post regarding deaths in custody and what do you do? Post a link that in the very first sentence just repeats what I already posted. The last bold doesn't even help when you consider population.
 
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You do realise that aboriginals die in custody less often than white people right? You do understand that?
.

Ah, the Trump “we are doing great” argument.
No, aboriginals in custody do not die “less often” in custody.
In fact they did at a rate of ;
3.1 Indigenous people were 16.5 times more likely than non-indigenous people to die in custody between 1990 and 1995. This rate reflects the disproportionately high number of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people in custody.

3.2 The disproportion in the rate of death was the highest in South Australia (31.7) followed by Victoria (18.8), New South Wales (17.0), Queensland (16.8), Northern Territory (7.7) and Tasmania (2.8).

3.3 Indigenous prisoners were 1.26 times more likely to die in prison than non-Indigenous prisoners.


I really don’t need to defend my position on this. The facts speak for themselves.

 
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You would hope the courts understand what the public want to happen to this person.
A lengthy incarceration. No excuses, no “I was on drugs” or “I had a terrible childhood”.
Time for the courts to understand people are accountable for their actions and there are no valid excuses.
 
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Not VicPol, but interesting anyway.
How the courts could actually downgrade the original sentence, which I think was inadequate anyway, is fairly stunning.
Hopefully the appeal will restore justice.
And how the F is this guy still on full pay? Appeal or not, he has been convicted of a crime. The most heinous of crimes in fact. Using protected information to help a woman abuser continue to abuse.
 
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So…. You get caught in an unregistered car. After it runs from the police, potentially causing an accident with unknown consequences by speeding and running red lights.
When stopped, you run, but the cops get you anyway.
An examination of the vehicle, and maybe even your own body (we don’t know), reveals drugs. Enough drugs to be more than just personal use.
What happens to you???
seriously, are you not in jail awaiting charges and a bail application?
Of course you are.
But if your a serving member of VicPol it appears you are in your lazy boy, watching catch up of whatever show you fancy, ON FULL PAY!

What a world we live in.
Us….. and them.
 
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