VicPol.

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Hard to complain about anything VicPol does when police in other countries refuse to lay charges when something as clear cut as this happens.
www.abc.net.au

Joe Biden, Lebron James outraged over shooting death of Ahmaud Arbery, caught on video

The US Presidential candidate and basketball legend are among those publicly demanding justice after video allegedly shows an unarmed black man being chased down and shot dead.
www.abc.net.au www.abc.net.au

*Warning, video may upset**
 
Black_White said:
Hard to complain about anything VicPol does when police in other countries refuse to lay charges when something as clear cut as this happens.
www.abc.net.au

Joe Biden, Lebron James outraged over shooting death of Ahmaud Arbery, caught on video

The US Presidential candidate and basketball legend are among those publicly demanding justice after video allegedly shows an unarmed black man being chased down and shot dead.
www.abc.net.au www.abc.net.au

*Warning, video may upset**
Click to expand...

I agree charges should have been laid immediately. I believe these men instigated the incident, based on racist profiling and probably hatred.

My only nagging question is what caused Ahmaud to change direction and engage the guy so quickly. It is obviously going to be the best defence they have and at this stage, not knowing the legal framework, you could argue he initiated the contact.
 
Moti said:
I agree charges should have been laid immediately. I believe these men instigated the incident, based on racist profiling and probably hatred.

My only nagging question is what caused Ahmaud to change direction and engage the guy so quickly. It is obviously going to be the best defence they have and at this stage, not knowing the legal framework, you could argue he initiated the contact.
Click to expand...
He changed direction to go around the vehicle on the side that would negate any traffic coming towards him.
Then there was a shot, and he changed direction to engage the shooter, obviously with the thought of saving his life.
Happily, charges have been laid today. But why did it take this video to make that happen.
Black lives matter I understand.
 

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Need to know a bit more about this, but right now I have to ask why tasers were not deployed on the
Monash today.
Its very strange that a bean bag round was deployed, yet no tasers. I can only imagine that the police, because of the proximity of civilian vehicles, were way to close to this disturbed individual, meaning when he did move on them with a knife they had to use lethal force.
Much prefer that tasers were used, or in the least the police had tried to disable his legs, not his chest.
Are they trained this way? If not, why not?
 
Black_White said:
Need to know a bit more about this, but right now I have to ask why tasers were not deployed on the
Monash today.
Its very strange that a bean bag round was deployed, yet no tasers. I can only imagine that the police, because of the proximity of civilian vehicles, were way to close to this disturbed individual, meaning when he did move on them with a knife they had to use lethal force.
Much prefer that tasers were used, or in the least the police had tried to disable his legs, not his chest.
Are they trained this way? If not, why not?
Click to expand...

Shooting is not as easy as it looks
 
Black_White said:
Need to know a bit more about this, but right now I have to ask why tasers were not deployed on the
Monash today.
Its very strange that a bean bag round was deployed, yet no tasers. I can only imagine that the police, because of the proximity of civilian vehicles, were way to close to this disturbed individual, meaning when he did move on them with a knife they had to use lethal force.
Much prefer that tasers were used, or in the least the police had tried to disable his legs, not his chest.
Are they trained this way? If not, why not?
Click to expand...

Tasers are not always effective, particularly against someone who may be extremely agitated and on drugs.

If someone is trying to kill you, and you are close enough to fire a taser, it may be ineffective and they kill you. Why should they have to risk their life to protect some freak trying to kill them? They tried to negotiate and use non-lethal means, both were ineffective. Very easy to sit on the couch and criticise how others act when some scum on ice is attempting to murder them... Wonder how you'd act?
 
Kappa said:
Tasers are not always effective, particularly against someone who may be extremely agitated and on drugs.

If someone is trying to kill you, and you are close enough to fire a taser, it may be ineffective and they kill you. Why should they have to risk their life to protect some freak trying to kill them? They tried to negotiate and use non-lethal means, both were ineffective. Very easy to sit on the couch and criticise how others act when some scum on ice is attempting to murder them... Wonder how you'd act?
Click to expand...
Take out his legs.
Pretty simple really.
And considering they are trained in firearm use, confronting a knife, that’s how this should have finished.
If the shooting was legal or not is a moot point, because it will be police investigating police. And we all know how that turns out.

And I’m not up on the latest. Was this guy on ice? Or are you using that to justify your position?
 
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BIGNEDKELLY said:
What suggestions would you make?
Click to expand...
Apart from using tasers?
Shoot the legs. The guy is advancing and you appear to have a five on one gun to knife advantage.
I understand people wanting to defend the police, and I will also, but only if I can see that correct procedure has been followed.
And we can only rely on the correct procedure being followed if we no longer have police investigating police. It’s untenable.
I don‘t want our police to end up like those in America, as we have seen in the past 24 hours.
 
Black_White said:
Apart from using tasers?
Shoot the legs. The guy is advancing and you appear to have a five on one gun to knife advantage.
I understand people wanting to defend the police, and I will also, but only if I can see that correct procedure has been followed.
And we can only rely on the correct procedure being followed if we no longer have police investigating police. It’s untenable.
I don‘t want our police to end up like those in America, as we have seen in the past 24 hours.
Click to expand...

You make things sound so simple because you really don't understand what you're talking about. Do you think its easy to shoot the skinny legs of someone running towards you? It's not, and what if you miss as he runs at you? Shooting the chest is safe and reliable. Also, shooting his legs doesn't incapacitate him, he can still lunge with the knife or throw it at someone's face/neck.

Not to mention that with multiple shots and the guy still welding a knife he'd almost certainly of died from blood loss anyway... You can't just start treating a guy who is still armed and conscious, and there are a lot of major arteries in the leg that'll cause someone to bleed out in a minute or less.

Basically you're asking a bunch of police to give themselves a high chance to be killed or critically injured just so some would-be murderer trying to kill them has a higher chance to survive... Yea.. Na.
 
Kappa said:
You make things sound so simple because you really don't understand what you're talking about. Do you think its easy to shoot the skinny legs of someone running towards you? It's not, and what if you miss as he runs at you? Shooting the chest is safe and reliable. Also, shooting his legs doesn't incapacitate him, he can still lunge with the knife or throw it at someone's face/neck.

Not to mention that with multiple shots and the guy still welding a knife he'd almost certainly of died from blood loss anyway... You can't just start treating a guy who is still armed and conscious, and there are a lot of major arteries in the leg that'll cause someone to bleed out in a minute or less.

Basically you're asking a bunch of police to give themselves a high chance to be killed or critically injured just so some would-be murderer trying to kill them has a higher chance to survive... Yea.. Na.
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So what your saying is that training people to use a firearm is a waste of taxpayers money.
This incident involved five officers with firearms agains one man without. And as you have chosen not to address your allegation that he was on ice, I can only assume that he was not the super man that ice users can become.
If I was confident that the investigation would come to your “yea...na” conclusion without being tainted by the fact they are investigating friends, then I’d accept that the course of action taken was the only course open to them.
As this is not the case I will continue to question.
 
Black_White said:
So what your saying is that training people to use a firearm is a waste of taxpayers money.
This incident involved five officers with firearms agains one man without. And as you have chosen not to address your allegation that he was on ice, I can only assume that he was not the super man that ice users can become.
If I was confident that the investigation would come to your “yea...na” conclusion without being tainted by the fact they are investigating friends, then I’d accept that the course of action taken was the only course open to them.
As this is not the case I will continue to question.
Click to expand...

They are trained to use lethal force as a last resort. They tried negotiations, they tried non-lethal force, and the guy still tried to kill them. He left them no choice.

Investigating friends? Do you think every police officer knows everyone else? Lol. Any investigation always has the chance of being biased one way or another, there's no way around that.

Most people who pull over on the highway waving around a knife and trying to stab people are on some drug-induced psychosis, often ice. No, I don't know that for certain, but it's the most likely situation.

Just because this guy didn't have a gun doesn't mean he couldn't kill them, dumb argument. A knife being thrown full force at someones neck or face can still kill you, or he could run at them and stab them. You can question all you like, but it's important to realise how little you know about the topic.
 

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Kappa said:
They are trained to use lethal force as a last resort. They tried negotiations, they tried non-lethal force, and the guy still tried to kill them. He left them no choice.

Investigating friends? Do you think every police officer knows everyone else? Lol. Any investigation always has the chance of being biased one way or another, there's no way around that.

Most people who pull over on the highway waving around a knife and trying to stab people are on some drug-induced psychosis, often ice. No, I don't know that for certain, but it's the most likely situation.

Just because this guy didn't have a gun doesn't mean he couldn't kill them, dumb argument. A knife being thrown full force at someones neck or face can still kill you, or he could run at them and stab them. You can question all you like, but it's important to realise how little you know about the topic.
Click to expand...

Your inability to understand that the police force consider each and every member as “family” beggars belief.
The force has always considered itself apart from normal citizens.
Im struggling to find any historical event where five gun armed people have had a fatality against one knife armed assailant.
You are welcome to point me in that direction please.
Plenty of one, two, three, for, five, six etc, etc gun armed police killing one knife armed assailant.
Yesterday was just one more. Don’t you think that the training is not doing it’s job?
 
Black_White said:
Your inability to understand that the police force consider each and every member as “family” beggars belief.
The force has always considered itself apart from normal citizens.
Im struggling to find any historical event where five gun armed people have had a fatality against one knife armed assailant.
You are welcome to point me in that direction please.
Plenty of one, two, three, for, five, six etc, etc gun armed police killing one knife armed assailant.
Yesterday was just one more. Don’t you think that the training is not doing it’s job?
Click to expand...

Yeah.. I'm sure every single police officer loves every single of the 19 thousand people who work for Vic Pol... What a naive opinion. These are people, they have some friends, some they dislike, and 90% they have never had a conversation with.

So you're saying throughout history there has never been a case of someone with a knife killing people with guns?... Bizarre, truly, truly bizarre for you to think that. What should they be trained to do? They're trained to negotiate and use non lethal means when they can, they did both those things and it didn't work. You have no clue what you're talking about.
 
The elephant in the room is the immense explosion of covid 19 that WILL DEFINITELY occur now.
What part of 'America is pushing towards a MILLION fatalities don't people understand?'
Under normal circumstances everyone has the right to protest.
These are NOT normal circumstances.
The prospect of a catastrophic acceleration in covid 19 infections looks certain.
Thus passes one of the worlds super powers.
 
Congratulations to Shane Patton on his elevation to the top job.
www.theage.com.au

'Enormous experience': Shane Patton to serve as Victoria's new top cop

Deputy Police Commissioner Shane Patton will take over from Graham Ashton, the Premier has announced.
www.theage.com.au www.theage.com.au
Came up through the ranks, which is a good thing for the force and us.
And, as deadly riots take over parts of America, he said ensuring community trust here in Victoria was essential.

“We don’t take the trust of the community for granted,” Mr Patton said. “I’ll do the best I possibly can in keeping the community safe.”
Click to expand...
First order of business Shane, lobby your employer to set up an independent system for investigation into police crimes.
That would ensure great trust in the force and you.
 
jonmacTrag said:
The elephant in the room is the immense explosion of covid 19 that WILL DEFINITELY occur now.
What part of 'America is pushing towards a MILLION fatalities don't people understand?'
Under normal circumstances everyone has the right to protest.
These are NOT normal circumstances.
The prospect of a catastrophic acceleration in covid 19 infections looks certain.
Thus passes one of the worlds super powers.
Click to expand...

Who cares? Free TV's, laptops, Versace and Prada handbags !
 
Only in Victoria.....
www.abc.net.au

Melbourne Black Lives Matter protest organisers to be fined by police

The organisers of the Black Lives Matter protest in Melbourne say it is disappointing police are fining them $1,652 each for breaching the coronavirus directives of the Chief Health Officer at the peaceful protest outside the Victorian Parliament.
www.abc.net.au www.abc.net.au
 
More the SES than VicPol this one.
www.abc.net.au

How a solo singing searcher found Will Callaghan on a freezing Victorian mountain

Ben Gibbs says he was singing when he came across Will Callaghan, standing with bare feet "just really angelic", alone in the forest on Mount Disappointment.
www.abc.net.au www.abc.net.au
The “professional” searchers had searched the area the boy was found in.
They even left markers to make sure none of them would search there again.
But this guy, a volunteer, decided to go further into the bush, beyond the markers, and found the boy.
So why do we have any faith in these people who are paid?
 
Black_White said:
More the SES than VicPol this one.
www.abc.net.au

How a solo singing searcher found Will Callaghan on a freezing Victorian mountain

Ben Gibbs says he was singing when he came across Will Callaghan, standing with bare feet "just really angelic", alone in the forest on Mount Disappointment.
www.abc.net.au www.abc.net.au
The “professional” searchers had searched the area the boy was found in.
They even left markers to make sure none of them would search there again.
But this guy, a volunteer, decided to go further into the bush, beyond the markers, and found the boy.
So why do we have any faith in these people who are paid?
Click to expand...

You're right, lets put zero faith in every professional person.
 
Kappa said:
You're right, lets put zero faith in every professional person.
Click to expand...
I love the way you are so reactionary, it's so predictable.
I have had dealings with the SES in 2012 during a flood. They came in from Melbourne, completely ignored a local, who had been in an official position for 30 years and had experience as to where the water would go.
The SES hierarchy ended up locking themselves away in the fire station so they didn't have to interact with the locals anymore. Needless to say they deployed resources in the wrong area and the flood impacted more property and people than it would have, because the water went exactly where the local with experience said it would.
In the Mt Disappointment case, they allowed locals and experienced bush walkers to help because of the boys disability. The pros obviously only did a cursory sweep of the area as shown by the tagging of the area in which he was found.
There is a lesson to be learnt, but I doubt the organisation can put it's ego aside to change it's ways.
 
Black_White said:
More the SES than VicPol this one.
www.abc.net.au

How a solo singing searcher found Will Callaghan on a freezing Victorian mountain

Ben Gibbs says he was singing when he came across Will Callaghan, standing with bare feet "just really angelic", alone in the forest on Mount Disappointment.
www.abc.net.au www.abc.net.au
The “professional” searchers had searched the area the boy was found in.
They even left markers to make sure none of them would search there again.
But this guy, a volunteer, decided to go further into the bush, beyond the markers, and found the boy.
So why do we have any faith in these people who are paid?
Click to expand...

Not sure this is the episode to use to critique search techniques. The particular challenge was the chance that the boy could be on the move and might easily double back into a previously searched area and wouldn’t be calling for help. Not sure anyone was gadding about saying, “Don’t go there, we have already looked.”

It was a great outcome. Just be happy with that. Save your juice for another day.

Edit: as an afterthought, given the SES made the call out that they could use volunteers with good knowledge of the area, and that was the successful searcher, maybe they did well?

Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
 
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