Vic Victoria’s recycling crisis

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Collingwoodity

Norm Smith Medallist
May 29, 2008
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Beggars belief that imported s**t is in excessive packaging, which then is shipped back

Excessive packaging designed to provide shelf appeal, but more and more is bought online?
This is the main issue.

Adopting recycling measures is helpful in respect of the symptom but does nothing for the cause.

The Australian government should legislate for % of glass and paper products that are biodegradable to be manufactured and imported i.e.
  1. by 2025 - 10%
  2. by 2030 - 25%
  3. by 2035 - 40%
  4. by 2040 - 60%
 

Ned_Flanders

Formerly 'rfctiger74'
Aug 22, 2009
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This is the main issue.

Adopting recycling measures is helpful in respect of the symptom but does nothing for the cause.

The Australian government should legislate for % of glass and paper products that are biodegradable to be manufactured and imported i.e.
  1. by 2025 - 10%
  2. by 2030 - 25%
  3. by 2035 - 40%
  4. by 2040 - 60%
I like the idea, but the issue is viability.

If you import a toy car (for example), you will have cardboard in the retail store packaging, cardboard in the shipper, and cardboard in outer carton. Often all three will come from separate suppliers, so you will need individual chain of custody certs for each.

Problem is Australia is such a s**tty small market, we don't get much customized stuff. Importers usually try to offload their pack work for other markets here, and sticker au specific info. As such, they won't want to pay for chain of custody certification (and label accordingly) unless it's underwritten by their big markets.
 

Kwality

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 14, 2011
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This is the main issue.

Adopting recycling measures is helpful in respect of the symptom but does nothing for the cause.

The Australian government should legislate for % of glass and paper products that are biodegradable to be manufactured and imported i.e.
  1. by 2025 - 10%
  2. by 2030 - 25%
  3. by 2035 - 40%
  4. by 2040 - 60%
It starts at home, when people understand putting stuff in the yellow lidded bin doesnt make them a responsible caring person.
Start with what can be viably recycled & put everything else in the rubbish bin.

Legislating unachievable targets is aspirational but USELESS.
 

Kwality

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Last week the Indonesians called our recycling rubbish, last year the Chinese called it rubbish - why doi we need to keep calling it recycling? Its rubbish !!

This week another recycling facility drowned in the rubbish from yellow lidded bins.

Any chance local government can get dinkum & crack down on whats going into these bins. Heard the ABC (Raf Epstein) trying to make the recycling facility as the villain, why wont the commentariate take a dose of reality?
 

Ned_Flanders

Formerly 'rfctiger74'
Aug 22, 2009
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Last week the Indonesians called our recycling rubbish, last year the Chinese called it rubbish - why doi we need to keep calling it recycling? Its rubbish !!

This week another recycling facility drowned in the rubbish from yellow lidded bins.

Any chance local government can get dinkum & crack down on whats going into these bins. Heard the ABC (Raf Epstein) trying to make the recycling facility as the villain, why wont the commentariate take a dose of reality?
I think the issue isn't a lack of will. One Council in Vic is trialling transparent wheelie bins to shame residents into doing the right thing. Years ago other councils were trialling camera and RF scanning technology to allow drivers to view what was being dumped, and fine residents who broke the rules.

I think part of the problem (esp in Melbourne and Sydney) is having a fair system, and one that doesn't fine people when neighbours dump noncompliant stuff in their bin (this happens a lot with units and the like)
 

Kwality

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Aug 14, 2011
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I think the issue isn't a lack of will. One Council in Vic is trialling transparent wheelie bins to shame residents into doing the right thing. Years ago other councils were trialling camera and RF scanning technology to allow drivers to view what was being dumped, and fine residents who broke the rules.

I think part of the problem (esp in Melbourne and Sydney) is having a fair system, and one that doesn't fine people when neighbours dump noncompliant stuff in their bin (this happens a lot with units and the like)
Absolutely the will is there, we need uniformity, we need people to understand what can go in the recycling bin, people continue to put dirty disposable nappies in the recycling bin, others believe the recycling bin is an op shop.
When Councils introduced recycling bins (replacing crates) they downsized the garbage bin in a strategy described as 'the carrot & the stick', it has been an abject failure but we dont see Councils reversing that thinking.

Where unit blocks are a continuing problem the recycling bins must be picked up by the garbage trucks. recycling facilities are not landfill sites.

Household recyclables are a part of the waste stream & must be treated accordingly or we will be looking for lots more holes , even forced into the real world of waste to energy.
 

Maggie5

Moderator
Apr 3, 2010
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Last week the Indonesians called our recycling rubbish, last year the Chinese called it rubbish - why doi we need to keep calling it recycling? Its rubbish !!

This week another recycling facility drowned in the rubbish from yellow lidded bins.

Any chance local government can get dinkum & crack down on whats going into these bins. Heard the ABC (Raf Epstein) trying to make the recycling facility as the villain, why wont the commentariate take a dose of reality?
The Chinese should complain - they create the majority of rubbish that can't be recycled.

A few things I have purchased in the past few week come in the clear tough plastic that you need scissors to cut product out even a new computer mouse. Packaging is real issue, then educating the public.

I try to re-use as much as I can even buying smaller loafs of bread and re-using plastic bag for schnitzel making. Put flour in one and breadcrumbs (shaking chicken or veal in bags) in the other instead of putting both on plates. Less cleaning and mess too.

I think the issue isn't a lack of will. One Council in Vic is trialling transparent wheelie bins to shame residents into doing the right thing. Years ago other councils were trialling camera and RF scanning technology to allow drivers to view what was being dumped, and fine residents who broke the rules.

I think part of the problem (esp in Melbourne and Sydney) is having a fair system, and one that doesn't fine people when neighbours dump noncompliant stuff in their bin (this happens a lot with units and the like)
Not just units, happened to me (house) a couple of times, last time however they were silly enough to put things in that had their address, dropped a very nasty note in their letterbox. I have the smallest size rubbish bins which I didn't realise are cheaper too.
 

Kwality

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 14, 2011
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The Chinese should complain - they create the majority of rubbish that can't be recycled.

A few things I have purchased in the past few week come in the clear tough plastic that you need scissors to cut product out even a new computer mouse. Packaging is real issue, then educating the public.

I try to re-use as much as I can even buying smaller loafs of bread and re-using plastic bag for schnitzel making. Put flour in one and breadcrumbs (shaking chicken or veal in bags) in the other instead of putting both on plates. Less cleaning and mess too.


Not just units, happened to me (house) a couple of times, last time however they were silly enough to put things in that had their address, dropped a very nasty note in their letterbox. I have the smallest size rubbish bins which I didn't realise are cheaper too.
That the Chinese call it rubbish, the Indonesians call it rubbish, not us its goes in a yellow lidded bin so it recyclables, are we deluded?
We take it to a recycling centre & expect them to sort it before it goes to the tip, not our problem? Its not our fault its that not so magic yellow lid.
 

Turnover

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May 30, 2015
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I’ve seen people unwilling to walk 3 metres to a bin to put out a cigarette outside office buildings in the city. Got sick of calling people out and being abused. These people live amongst us, recycling bin, huh.
 

Kwality

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Aug 14, 2011
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I’ve seen people unwilling to walk 3 metres to a bin to put out a cigarette outside office buildings in the city. Got sick of calling people out and being abused. These people live amongst us, recycling bin, huh.
People yes!
In the case of recycling bins, Councils put in recycling bins & reduced the size of garbage bins then bleated about how well it worked. When the rubbish bin was full what happened, it went in the recycling bin, go figure ..

Oct 9, 2018 - Victoria's reprocessing sector increased from the previous year's material recovery rate, reaching just above 8.6 million tonnes of material ...

Talk about at sleep at the wheel.
 

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Maggie5

Moderator
Apr 3, 2010
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That the Chinese call it rubbish, the Indonesians call it rubbish, not us its goes in a yellow lidded bin so it recyclables, are we deluded?
We take it to a recycling centre & expect them to sort it before it goes to the tip, not our problem? Its not our fault its that not so magic yellow lid.
You are still missing the important step, where does it come from? Mostly packaging!

If manufacturers of goods used recycling material in their packaging wouldn't be as big a problem.

Have a look around next time you go to the supermarket, Bunnnings, toy shops or Officeworks.

Then educate/fine the public who are irresponsible with disposing.
 

Turnover

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You are still missing the important step, where does it come from? Mostly packaging!

If manufacturers of goods used recycling material in their packaging wouldn't be as big a problem.

Have a look around next time you go to the supermarket, Bunnnings, toy shops or Officeworks.

Then educate/fine the public who are irresponsible with disposing.
Educate the public on buying s**t they don’t need would be a massive start in my opinion.
 

Kwality

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 14, 2011
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You are still missing the important step, where does it come from? Mostly packaging!

If manufacturers of goods used recycling material in their packaging wouldn't be as big a problem.

Have a look around next time you go to the supermarket, Bunnnings, toy shops or Officeworks.

Then educate/fine the public who are irresponsible with disposing.
I'm dealing with the problem we have at the recycling facilitites today, yes you want to change the world & good on you - we've got a problem that isnt going away, we've done nothing practical since the Chinese called us. I'm saying enough ...

Education, big yes, TV/schools, kids prod their folks, doing nothing is not good enough, reckon we agree on that ;)

You cant build a waste to energy plant in Melbourne, more than just the NIMBY syndrome, they work a treat in Tokyo & its cleaner than Melbourne in my experience. Here is a post of a Aus mayor going back to 2014, hello:https://cofremantle.wordpress.com/2014/05/03/recycling-and-waste-to-energy-in-tokyo/

I have spent the last week in extraordinary Japan. The first part of the trip was to look at Waste to Energy plants as part of a joint local/state government delegation.

Tokyo metro area is amazing – it feels like it goes forever (with over 9 million people in the central area alone where we looked at four of their 21 Waste to Energy plants) extending to a hard to fathom 35 million people if you include the greater metro area!
 

Turnover

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I purchased scissors, computer mouse and batteries, not sure they would be counted as you describe.

In fact I needed scissors to open the mouse packaging.
In regards to packaging, I’m not certain on this but I assume all the extra packaging on everything and anything would be a legal requirement, in regards to transportation, insurance, public liability etc.
 

Turnover

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I'm dealing with the problem we have at the recycling facilitites today, yes you want to change the world & good on you - we've got a problem that isnt going away, we've done nothing practical since the Chinese called us. I'm saying enough ...

Education, big yes, TV/schools, kids prod their folks, doing nothing is not good enough, reckon we agree on that ;)

You cant build a waste to energy plant in Melbourne, more than just the NIMBY syndrome, they work a treat in Tokyo & its cleaner than Melbourne in my experience. Here is a post of a Aus mayor going back to 2014, hello:https://cofremantle.wordpress.com/2014/05/03/recycling-and-waste-to-energy-in-tokyo/

I have spent the last week in extraordinary Japan. The first part of the trip was to look at Waste to Energy plants as part of a joint local/state government delegation.

Tokyo metro area is amazing – it feels like it goes forever (with over 9 million people in the central area alone where we looked at four of their 21 Waste to Energy plants) extending to a hard to fathom 35 million people if you include the greater metro area!
Japan. Disciplined society. Carry there own ash trays. Legends.
 

Maggie5

Moderator
Apr 3, 2010
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In regards to packaging, I’m not certain on this but I assume all the extra packaging on everything and anything would be a legal requirement, in regards to transportation, insurance, public liability etc.
Some would but seriously have you bought any children's toys lately? Tied to package by wire, then there is the plastic see through bubble, then cardboard. some of it is not needed.
Go and have a look through Bunnings why would you need small tools in that tough plastic packaging?

Then of course there are soft drinks in plastic, go back to glass and deposit on glass and cans like in Adelaide. Sadly a lot of people don't care in as you pointed out, 'the consumer' age.

Still believe go back to where the issues arise but as Kram posted, we should be doing more by the way of investment to treat the outcomes now.

Anyone with a brain would come to realise that those countries that have been taking our rubbish would eventually say, 'enough'.
 

Power Raid

TheBrownDog
Oct 15, 2004
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I'm dealing with the problem we have at the recycling facilitites today, yes you want to change the world & good on you - we've got a problem that isnt going away, we've done nothing practical since the Chinese called us. I'm saying enough ...

Education, big yes, TV/schools, kids prod their folks, doing nothing is not good enough, reckon we agree on that ;)

You cant build a waste to energy plant in Melbourne, more than just the NIMBY syndrome, they work a treat in Tokyo & its cleaner than Melbourne in my experience. Here is a post of a Aus mayor going back to 2014, hello:https://cofremantle.wordpress.com/2014/05/03/recycling-and-waste-to-energy-in-tokyo/

I have spent the last week in extraordinary Japan. The first part of the trip was to look at Waste to Energy plants as part of a joint local/state government delegation.

Tokyo metro area is amazing – it feels like it goes forever (with over 9 million people in the central area alone where we looked at four of their 21 Waste to Energy plants) extending to a hard to fathom 35 million people if you include the greater metro area!
The EU should learn how the Japs are successfully doing it. As it is one of the areas they are struggling to deliver efficiently in.

I don’t understand the full issue but relates to consistency in heat. Any boiler operators out there?
 

Turnover

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Some would but seriously have you bought any children's toys lately? Tied to package by wire, then there is the plastic see through bubble, then cardboard. some of it is not needed.
Go and have a look through Bunnings why would you need small tools in that tough plastic packaging?

Then of course there are soft drinks in plastic, go back to glass and deposit on glass and cans like in Adelaide. Sadly a lot of people don't care in as you pointed out, 'the consumer' age.

Still believe go back to where the issues arise but as Kram posted, we should be doing more by the way of investment to treat the outcomes now.

Anyone with a brain would come to realise that those countries that have been taking our rubbish would eventually say, 'enough'.
My point with the cigarettes and ashtrays is education needs to start at the bottom. Which is your a smoker, you ( I should say I) choose to blow smoke in the air for the fun of it, at least put in the bin. Shame people for being lazy littering smokers, I bet they will stop if Aunty Judy spots them on Facebook (this course of action might not be legit). Has to start somehow, people will adapt.
 

Kwality

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 14, 2011
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The EU should learn how the Japs are successfully doing it. As it is one of the areas they are struggling to deliver efficiently in.

I don’t understand the full issue but relates to consistency in heat. Any boiler operators out there?
Not aware of the problems in Europe, waste to energy does not eliminate landfill, like recycling it reduces the need.

In 2016, there were 512 plants in Europe, with 251 combined heat and power plants, 161 electricity-only and 94 heat-only plants, which provide a total incineration capacity of 93 million tonnes. The suitability analysis showed that there is a potential to implement around 248 new waste to energy plants in the EU and 330 in all Europe, with a total capacity of 37 and 50 million tonnes, respectively.
 

Turnover

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No recycling cigarettes, why is it in a discussion on recycling, its recycling/rubbish who cares, & its the Chinese, the Indonesians , not us.
I apologise for entering the discussion. I will try in future not to disrupt your conversations.
 

Kwality

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I apologise for entering the discussion. I will try in future not to disrupt your conversations.
Many Melburnians dont know the difference between rubbish & recycling hence my frustration with you going off down that path. Its the very heart of the problem being discussed.
 
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