Society/Culture Victoria Cross winner Ben Roberts-Smith - Allegations of war crimes

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Oh wait here it is:
"While deployed on Operation SLIPPER, and during a helicopter assault into Tizak, Kandahar province, Roberts-Smith single-handedly stormed an enemy machine-gun position to capture or kill a senior Taliban commander."

Sounds like bullshit to me.
 
CheapCharlie said:
Yes i do
It defies logic you can't find it yourself on google
Click to expand...
The first page of google is all about how he killed innocent people in Afghanistan and beat up women :$

LOL he even recorded a song on a Lee Kernaghan album called “Spirit of the ANZACs” in 2015.

Should be stripped of any and all awards and tried for crimes against humanity.
 
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Toump Ass said:
Oh wait here it is:
"While deployed on Operation SLIPPER, and during a helicopter assault into Tizak, Kandahar province, Roberts-Smith single-handedly stormed an enemy machine-gun position to capture or kill a senior Taliban commander."

Sounds like bullshit to me.
Click to expand...

Toump Ass said:
The first page of google is all about how he killed innocent people in Afghanistan and beat up women :$

LOL he even recorded a song on a Lee Kernaghan album called “Spirit of the ANZACs” album in 2015.

Should be stripped of any and all awards and tried for crimes against humanity.
Click to expand...

And there we have it...
The disingenuous of your question

Victoria Cross for Australia[edit]
On 11 June 2010, a troop of the Special Operations Task Group conducted a helicopter assault into Tizak, Kandahar province, in order to capture or kill a senior Taliban commander.

Immediately upon the helicopter insertion, the troop was engaged by machine gun and rocket propelled grenadefire from multiple, dominating positions. Two soldiers were wounded in action and the troop was pinned down by fire from three machine guns in an elevated fortified position to the south of the village. Under the cover of close air support, suppressive small arms and machine gun fire, Roberts-Smith and his patrol manoeuvred to within 70 metres of the enemy position in order to neutralise the enemy machine gun positions and regain the initiative.

Upon commencement of the assault, the patrol drew very heavy, intense, effective and sustained fire from the enemy position. Roberts-Smith and his patrol members fought towards the enemy position until, at a range of 40 metres, the weight of fire prevented further movement forward. At this point, he identified the opportunity to exploit some cover provided by a small structure.

As he approached the structure, Roberts-Smith identified an insurgent grenadier in the throes of engaging his patrol. Roberts-Smith engaged the insurgent at point-blank range resulting in the death of the insurgent. With the members of his patrol still pinned down by the three enemy machine gun positions, he exposed his own position in order to draw fire away from his patrol, which enabled them to bring fire to bear against the enemy. His actions enabled his Patrol Commander to throw a grenade and silence one of the machine guns. Seizing the advantage, and demonstrating extreme devotion to duty and the most conspicuous gallantry, Roberts-Smith, with a total disregard for his own safety, stormed the enemy position killing the two remaining machine gunners.

His act of valour enabled his patrol to break into the enemy position and to lift the weight of fire from the remainder of the troop who had been pinned down by the machine gun fire. On seizing the fortified gun position, Corporal Roberts-Smith then took the initiative again and continued to assault enemy positions in depth during which he and another patrol member engaged and killed further enemy. His acts of selfless valour directly enabled his troop to go on and clear the village of Tizak of Taliban. This decisive engagement subsequently caused the remainder of the Taliban in Shah Wali Kot district to retreat from the area.
 
CheapCharlie said:
And there we have it...
The disingenuous of your question
Click to expand...
Not disingenuous, just lazy.

Thanks for finding that link though.
On 11 June 2010, a troop of the Special Operations Task Group conducted a helicopter assault into Tizak, Kandahar province, in order to capture or kill a senior Taliban commander.

Immediately upon the helicopter insertion, the troop was engaged by machine gun and rocket propelled grenadefire from multiple, dominating positions. Two soldiers were wounded in action and the troop was pinned down by fire from three machine guns in an elevated fortified position to the south of the village. Under the cover of close air support, suppressive small arms and machine gun fire, Roberts-Smith and his patrol manoeuvred to within 70 metres of the enemy position in order to neutralise the enemy machine gun positions and regain the initiative.

Upon commencement of the assault, the patrol drew very heavy, intense, effective and sustained fire from the enemy position. Roberts-Smith and his patrol members fought towards the enemy position until, at a range of 40 metres, the weight of fire prevented further movement forward. At this point, he identified the opportunity to exploit some cover provided by a small structure.

As he approached the structure, Roberts-Smith identified an insurgent grenadier in the throes of engaging his patrol. Roberts-Smith engaged the insurgent at point-blank range resulting in the death of the insurgent. With the members of his patrol still pinned down by the three enemy machine gun positions, he exposed his own position in order to draw fire away from his patrol, which enabled them to bring fire to bear against the enemy. His actions enabled his Patrol Commander to throw a grenade and silence one of the machine guns. Seizing the advantage, and demonstrating extreme devotion to duty and the most conspicuous gallantry, Roberts-Smith, with a total disregard for his own safety, stormed the enemy position killing the two remaining machine gunners.

His act of valour enabled his patrol to break into the enemy position and to lift the weight of fire from the remainder of the troop who had been pinned down by the machine gun fire. On seizing the fortified gun position, Corporal Roberts-Smith then took the initiative again and continued to assault enemy positions in depth during which he and another patrol member engaged and killed further enemy. His acts of selfless valour directly enabled his troop to go on and clear the village of Tizak of Taliban. This decisive engagement subsequently caused the remainder of the Taliban in Shah Wali Kot district to retreat from the area.
Click to expand...
I'm really skeptical this actually happened as reported.

Don't think the government has a brilliant track record of being honest. Do you?
 
I am not aware of any other Victoria Cross Winner who have been trotted out so extensively by the Liberal party to push their obvious jingoistic nationalism.
In fact I am unaware of any other Victoria Cross Winner who have been keen to get their head on TV so much.

Just sayin.

Don't like his media persona, but don't know the guy.
Seems to be all about self promotion.
Maybe he will do a Coles promotion.

Most heroes I know are very humble.
 
Pie eyed said:
I am not aware of any other Victoria Cross Winner who have been trotted out so extensively by the Liberal party to push their obvious jingoistic nationalism.
In fact I am unaware of any other Victoria Cross Winner who have been keen to get their head on TV so much.

Just sayin.

Don't like his media persona, but don't know the guy.
Seems to be all about self promotion.
Maybe he will do a Coles promotion.

Most heroes I know are very humble.
Click to expand...
Most definitely don't want the spotlight. Not only for the humility, but because it threatens their career in SF.

If you're inclined, I suggest reading Mark Donaldson's autobiography. If memory serves, he was the first VC winner in a long time (followed by two others including R-S). He was practically begged by senior Defence personnel to accept the award and do the media rounds.

Maybe Roberts-Smith knew his time was coming to an end and figured a media presence could help him out financially post-service. Maybe he does it because he was asked. Who knows. Either way, it doesn't take anything away from the award.
 
Toump Ass said:
Not disingenuous, just lazy.

Thanks for finding that link though.
I'm really skeptical this actually happened as reported.

Don't think the government has a brilliant track record of being honest. Do you?
Click to expand...
I don't understand the skepticism. Where does it come from? You don't think our military forces did anything in the Middle-East? Or just have a default position of disbelief for anything to do with the military and/or government?
 

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ShanDog said:
I don't understand the skepticism. Where does it come from?
Click to expand...
Probably the war against Iraq which was predicated on alleged WMD's that every single person on earth knew was a complete load of bullshit. Thankfully only a quarter of a million people died though, and most of them were probably black anyway, so no big deal. (LOL just a bit of "faulty intelligence" is all!)

I'm right to be sceptical because we're lied to constantly. ("we didn't mean to vote for that racist bill. Just an 'administrative error', please don't look at twitter... nothing to see here!)

Or just have a default position of disbelief for anything to do with the military and/or government?
Click to expand...
Why are we involved in military action in the Middle-East? It's to strengthen our alliance with the US. That's it. And like any normal, rational human being I have a very strong distrust of the US government.

None of bombing Iraq, Afghanistan, Kuwait or Syria was in our national interest. We had no business in the "war against terrorism" until we joined in; and all that did was make us a target for muslim extremists.

ANZAC heroes like Roberts-Smith showing off the highest bravery award ever on TV ("most decorated Australian solider alive, except for the war crimes") helps sell this bullshit lie that we're doing honourable work. We're not.

Ben Robert-Smith sure likes the spotlight. Coincidence? I don't think so!
 
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Toump Ass said:
Probably the war against Iraq which was predicated on alleged WMD's that every single person on earth knew was a complete load of bullshit. Thankfully only a quarter of a million people died though, and most of them were probably black anyway, so no big deal. (LOL just a bit of "faulty intelligence" is all!)

I'm right to be sceptical because we're lied to constantly. ("we didn't mean to vote for that racist bill. Just an 'administrative error', please don't look at twitter... nothing to see here!)

Why are we involved in military action in the Middle-East? It's to strengthen our alliance with the US. That's it. And like any normal, rational human being I have a very strong distrust of the US government.

None of Bombing Iraq, Afghanistan, Kuwait or Syria was in our national interest. We had no business in the "war against terrorism" until we joined in; and all that did was make us a target for muslim extremists.
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Sure, but there's a chasm between politicians and soldiers. Thinking one untrustworthy (and rightfully so IMO too) doesn't mean the other is by association. That's just conflating two very different things entirely.
Toump Ass said:
ANZAC heroes like Roberts-Smith showing off the highest bravery award ever on TV ("most decorated Australian solider alive, except for the war crimes") helps sell this bullshit lie that we're doing honourable work. We're not.

Ben Robert-Smith sure likes the spotlight. Coincidence? I don't think so!
Click to expand...
As I said before, the brass definitely like to parade around VC winners. It's good PR and I am in total agreement with you there. Not sure R-S is liking the limelight a great deal right now.
 
ShanDog said:
Sure, but there's a chasm between politicians and soldiers. Thinking one untrustworthy (and rightfully so IMO too) doesn't mean the other is by association. That's just conflating two very different things entirely.

As I said before, the brass definitely like to parade around VC winners. It's good PR and I am in total agreement with you there. Not sure R-S is liking the limelight a great deal right now.
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Yeah I think you might be right actually.

I am just really cynical :D
 
ShanDog said:
I don't understand the skepticism. Where does it come from? You don't think our military forces did anything in the Middle-East? Or just have a default position of disbelief for anything to do with the military and/or government?
Click to expand...
They did plenty. They (helped) screwed up three countrys.

Afghanistan had all but ended the opium trade with the un at the end of 2000. Within a year after the invasion it was back up and running. The world was facing a shortage due to numbers of people addicted to prescription opiods.whether that's coincidence depends on how brainwashed one is, considering the Americans history (see Gary Webb and Burma opium wars)

To this day there's still no peace like there was pre invasion.

The other country had a secular goverment no threat to anyone and now our air Force is using that country as a base to bomb another secular goverment being attacked by Islamic jihadists and Al queda.

What ben says about those wars is all bullshit. Many veterans struggling with mental health after learning the truth and Ben as a mental health ambassador stabbing them in the back.
 
Toump Ass said:
I'm really skeptical this actually happened as reported.

Don't think the government has a brilliant track record of being honest. Do you?
Click to expand...

To be sceptical is okay, I'm a fan of scepticism myself, and the privileging of awards and honours can be a highly manipulated and political affair.

In this instance, though, such citations (as far as I'm aware) are informed by the reports of peers, and then validated by superiors. In the case of BRS, it is his peers who have made the most serious allegations of his misconduct, and yet none of these people --to my knowledge-- have questioned the merit of his VC. This doesn't mean that the citation is unvarnished truth, but I've seen nothing to suggest that the valour it details is a lie.
 
JB1975 said:
In this instance, though, such citations (as far as I'm aware) are informed by the reports of peers, and then validated by superiors. In the case of BRS, it is his peers who have made the most serious allegations of his misconduct, and yet none of these people --to my knowledge-- have questioned the merit of his VC. This doesn't mean that the citation is unvarnished truth, but I've seen nothing to suggest that the valour it details is a lie.
Click to expand...
How many superiors would be in a position to validate these actions? None.

I don't have much faith in the reports of his peers either: the good lord knows I've committed all manner of crimes and perjury for mates, and I've certainly exaggerated my war stories at the local pub. And have a look at some of these quotes from his peers:

"He just tore into the enemy … He is the epitome of the Spartan soldier. It was only a matter of time before he would demonstrate his true ability."a witness said.
"This guy is a warrior," another mate said.

There's those nasty "300" movie references that are so prominent in these alleged war crimes. Whoops!

More than most awards this one reeks of the Montgomery Burns Award for Outstanding Achievement in the Field of Excellence, even before you consider the political junket tours BRS has completed. Industry awards are massive crock and I don't see why the military industry would be any different.

But, taking away from the veracity of these claims re: the VC;

These allegations are mental, but they're not really surprising. Very strange someone trained to kill would be chosen as anti-violence campaigner.
 
I'm sold. Take the VC away. Discharge him for lying and prejudicial conduct, as well as the others in his squad. Delete all film content with his face in it and throw him in jail because a soldier clearly can't get through life without illegally abusing people like his spouse or the enemy. Has to be guilty.

Glad we cleared all that up.
 
ShanDog said:
I'm sold. Take the VC away. Discharge him for lying and prejudicial conduct, as well as the others in his squad. Delete all film content with his face in it and throw him in jail because a soldier clearly can't get through life without illegally abusing people like his spouse or the enemy. Has to be guilty.

Glad we cleared all that up.
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Or, if it is found he committed war crimes or bashed his girlfriend (which Fairfax says it will prove in court if necessary), jail the prick. Won't happen though.
 
ShanDog said:
I'm sold. Take the VC away. Discharge him for lying and prejudicial conduct, as well as the others in his squad. Delete all film content with his face in it and throw him in jail because a soldier clearly can't get through life without illegally abusing people like his spouse or the enemy. Has to be guilty.

Glad we cleared all that up.
Click to expand...
I agree with your position and respect you defending servicemen against coward trolls. But as per WA ROO's meme, it's probably best to just ignore said keyboard warriors.
 
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