Society/Culture Victoria Cross winner Ben Roberts-Smith - Allegations of war crimes

[stretcharmstrong]

He does look like a bit of a campaigner fwiw

That Sparta portrait - ffs

 

[Reynolds Number]

Is he going to dive back in that pool to pick up his brain?

 

[Thegibbsgamble]

Does this end with Ben Roberts Smith drinking poison in The Hague?

If they were serious about his actions in Afghanistan he would be referred there. Instead they're being used to get him to take what's coming and shut up and go away. He knows things especially how he came to some of his political appointments.

There's worse things done in Afghanistan than what he's accused of. It would be unfair to single him out.

I don't think he will go quietly. I think he will be ruled to of died by suicide with two gun shot wounds to the head.

 

[its free real estate]

Part of his penalty should be a grovelling apology to Yumi Stynes and George Negus, like the scenes from Saddam’s Baathist conference in 1979.

 

[The Warlord]

Yeah we don't know for sure if he punched her - but she definitely didn't get the black eye from falling down the stairs, if I'm reading those text messages correctly.

Nah, he punched her alright, its just kind of, how and why.

 

[The Warlord]

Part of his penalty should be a grovelling apology to Yumi Stynes and George Negus, like the scenes from Saddam’s Baathist conference in 1979.

I know Yumi's husband quite well, don't know her at all well, but the s**t she and they copped over that was beyond crazy.

Threats to rape and kill her - coming with their address attached etc etc. Kill her kids, rape and kill her kids in front of before doing it to her.

Often by people who gave every indication of being ex or serving military.

 

[William Wonka]

A good mate of mine was a career soldier, ex mercenary, Sierra Leone, Rhodesia and Iraq via Sandhurst and Northern Ireland. I love him but he's no role model.

Soldiers of fortune... no, certainly not.

I have known regular army, SF and Airforce whos integrity, honour and professionalism surpass anyone else ive met.

I haven't been exactly all over this but from what ive read recently he has been accused of hitting a woman he was having an affair with.
Apart from that is anyone actually putting their name to anything?
Defamation suits suggest the answer is no.

 

[The Warlord]

Soldiers of fortune... no, certainly not.

I have known regular army, SF and Airforce whos integrity, honour and professionalism surpass anyone else ive met.

I haven't been exactly all over this but from what ive read recently he has been accused of hitting a woman he was having an affair with.
Apart from that is anyone actually putting their name to anything?
Defamation suits suggest the answer is no.

His own fellow operators are telling a special tribunal and two of the Country's best journos that he abused and murdered civilians.

 

[William Wonka]

His own fellow operators are telling a special tribunal and two of the Country's best journos that he abused and murdered civilians.

Sauce?

 

[The Warlord]

Sauce?

Go and read the Nick McKenzie and Chris Masters reports yourself.

They aren't the kind of "AFL star sex drug shock" that turns out to be some Freo rookie doing coke with his girlfriend in 2002 merchants.

They are two of the country's most experienced and professional journos with multiple awards and royal commissions to their names.

People have to remember this stuff is being driven by those who were right there with BRS in Afghanistan and disgusted with what he did.

It is right to say SAS are professional, effective operators who conduct themselves with a real pride in who they are.

It is why they are turning on one of their own when he became a blood obsessed weirdo fixated with a movie.

 

[Thegibbsgamble]

His own fellow operators are telling a special tribunal and two of the Country's best journos that he abused and murdered civilians.

I feel sorry for him in a way. The military made him this. Because it suits their agenda. The brass have always known what he did. He was used as a political tool upon return. Now he is being hung drawn and quartered, and those responsible for making him, protecting him and encouraging him are getting away with it. While they get away with it, there's going to be more Ben Roberts smith or chris Kyle.

The choice of fairfax astute. Murder och press are never going to tell his story if he ever comes clean.

 

[The Warlord]

I feel sorry for him in a way. The military made him this. Because it suits their agenda. The brass have always known what he did. He was used as a political tool upon return. Now he is being hung drawn and quartered, and those responsible for making him, protecting him and encouraging him are getting away with it. While they get away with it, there's going to be more Ben Roberts smith or chris Kyle.

The choice of fairfax astute. Murder och press are never going to tell his story if he ever comes clean.

Murdoch reaction as predictable as it is inaccurate.

 

[Malifice]

I feel sorry for him in a way. The military made him this. Because it suits their agenda. The brass have always known what he did. He was used as a political tool upon return. Now he is being hung drawn and quartered, and those responsible for making him, protecting him and encouraging him are getting away with it. While they get away with it, there's going to be more Ben Roberts smith or chris Kyle.

The choice of fairfax astute. Murder och press are never going to tell his story if he ever comes clean.

Crazy how you vigorously you defend a bloke being investigated for murder (based on evidence being provided by fellow operators).

If those same operators were giving evidence about a suspected terrorist engaging in murder, would you be as ready to defend the accused?

Or is BRS the 'war hero' somehow different from Mohammed 'Uber driver from Broady?'

I don't have many acquaintances left from my time posted to Swanbourne but from what I do still hear, I wouldn't be dismissing some of these accusations out of hand that's for sure.

 

[The Warlord]

I don't have many acquaintances left from my time posted to Swanbourne but from what I do still hear, I wouldn't be dismissing some of these accusations out of hand that's for sure.

They are rock solid, believe.

 

[Brunswick Trap King]

Crazy how you vigorously you defend a bloke being investigated for murder (based on evidence being provided by fellow operators).

If those same operators were giving evidence about a suspected terrorist engaging in murder, would you be as ready to defend the accused?

Or is BRS the 'war hero' somehow different from Mohammed 'Uber driver from Broady?'

I don't have many acquaintances left from my time posted to Swanbourne but from what I do still hear, I wouldn't be dismissing some of these accusations out of hand that's for sure.

I think you missed his point entirely.

 

[Malifice]

I think you missed his point entirely.

I took the post to be defending BRS despite some fairly serious allegations bubbling about, largely on the grounds he's a decorated war hero (i.e. a status totally unconnected to the allegations).

I was curious as to if he would extend the same courtesy to a person accused of similar things who had a different status (i.e. not a war hero).

For mine, lets ignore his VC (its not relevant) and get to the truth of the matter, either to exonerate him on the grounds he didnt do it, or prosecute him on the grounds he may have done it, and test those allegations in a court of law.

Im hearing he was quite the divisive figure. Some blokes loved him, some thought he was a *******. That (to me) reeks of a rather nasty cultural divide in the Regiment, one that I must add was partly evident when I was there (a nascent 'warrior culture' of a small core of blokes being a law unto themselves).

It's troubling to think that this might have festered and become its own thing over the course of the now very protracted conflict.

 

[Brunswick Trap King]

I took the post to be defending BRS despite some fairly serious allegations bubbling about, largely on the grounds he's a decorated war hero (i.e. a status totally unconnected to the allegations).

Nah, he was placing the blame on the entire Australian military and their culture as a whole. Thegibbsgamble has never hidden his contempt for the military. He's probably mocked BRS multiple times earlier in this thread and you can see it in other military threads.

For mine, lets ignore his VC (its not relevant) and get to the truth of the matter, either to exonerate him on the grounds he didnt do it, or prosecute him on the grounds he may have done it, and test those allegations in a court of law.

Im hearing he was quite the divisive figure. Some blokes loved him, some thought he was a *******. That (to me) reeks of a rather nasty cultural divide in the Regiment, one that I must add was partly evident when I was there (a nascent 'warrior culture' of a small core of blokes being a law unto themselves).

It's troubling to think that this might have festered and become its own thing over the course of the now very protracted conflict.

Yeah, from what I've heard from people in the military, what you've said above seems quite accurate.

As an aside, Malifice, do you think the army creates these people? Or do you think these people go into the army looking for this kind of release?

 

[Thegibbsgamble]

Crazy how you vigorously you defend a bloke being investigated for murder (based on evidence being provided by fellow operators).

If those same operators were giving evidence about a suspected terrorist engaging in murder, would you be as ready to defend the accused?

Or is BRS the 'war hero' somehow different from Mohammed 'Uber driver from Broady?'

I don't have many acquaintances left from my time posted to Swanbourne but from what I do still hear, I wouldn't be dismissing some of these accusations out of hand that's for sure.

There is a video made by the daughter of a Kenyan freedom fighter. She documents the war crimes under churchil in her country. My father is in that video and was filmed a month before his 20th birthday. I'm one of the few aware of what went on. Aware of the ptsd he suffered and my family suffered as a result.

The day he died he had a stroke as I was taking him to the toilet. He couldnt get up. So to help him help me get him up, from a confined space I talked to him like the drill Seargent does at boot camp after you've been broken. When the rebuilding begins into what they want you to be.
"Okay soldier you are a soldier aren't you? On the count of three you're gonna get up soldier" . On the count of three he got enough strength to enable me to get him up. He died scared of facing what he did in Kenya, when he passed over.

I've also cared for a black felluh dying of cancer who resisted white rule here and thus did some phuqed up s**t. He to shared me with me his fears of what awaits when he passes over.

Roberts smith deserves to face justice, but so does Cosgrove. Its unfair that those in power who send our young men to war and turn them into animals to achieve a purpose, still get away with it. We've learnt nothing from world War one.

That post you quoted is my empathy for the soldiers who have done these acts, that if they had the time again. They wouldn't. I don't think Roberts smith is one of them though.

We celebrate kokada. We were raping that country prior to Japanese invasion. We used the natives as slaves before during and after that conflict. We actually sold minerals we stole from that country, to Japan. Those minerals came back and killed our soldiers defending those mines and rubber plantations.

Both Japanese marines and Australian veterans of tobruk committed attrocities against each other and civilians.

If the government was serious about Ben Roberts smith they would refer him to the Hague.

 

[The Warlord]

SAS murder probe intensifies as federal police speak to Afghan eyewitnesses

Federal Police detectives have been sent to Afghanistan to investigate whether Australian soldiers kicked Ali Jan off a cliff and then ordered him to be executed.

www.theage.com.au

 

[skilts]

Both Japanese marines and Australian veterans of tobruk committed attrocities against each other and civilians.

Strange that you never hear of any Japanese being taken prisoner and surviving during the Kokoda campaign. However, there is ample evidence of Japanese atrocities against Australians taken prisoner during that campaign. There is no record of Australians using Japanese prisoners for bayonet practise, as happened to some of our blokes. This may well be because there were no Japanese journalists there.

 

[medusala]

To become an SAS member in the first place I'm not sure that you're going to be the sort of bloke you'd happily take home to meet mum, or have your daughter introduce you to.

Knew bloke at uni who joined. Really nice guy, very quiet, and small. Apparently (Im sure others like Mal could verify this or not) the special forces are not full of big meatheaded knobs.

Strange that you never hear of any Japanese being taken prisoner and surviving during the Kokoda campaign. However, there is ample evidence of Japanese atrocities against Australians taken prisoner during that campaign. There is no record of Australians using Japanese prisoners for bayonet practise, as happened to some of our blokes. This may well be because there were no Japanese journalists there.

Forgive my hazy memory but didnt you write a book on this or Blamey or something similar? I doubt there is a decent record of all those who died from friendly fire as well not to mention other activities like fragging in the Vietnam war. Just like Duntroon in the 70s could apparently be rather unpleasant so I have been told.

 

[The Warlord]

Strange that you never hear of any Japanese being taken prisoner and surviving during the Kokoda campaign. However, there is ample evidence of Japanese atrocities against Australians taken prisoner during that campaign. There is no record of Australians using Japanese prisoners for bayonet practise, as happened to some of our blokes. This may well be because there were no Japanese journalists there.

There's plenty of records of Australian brutality to Japanese prisoners in New Guinea, we just choose not to talk about it.

Knew bloke at uni who joined. Really nice guy, very quiet, and small. Apparently (Im sure others like Mal could verify this or not) the special forces are not full of big meatheaded knobs.



Forgive my hazy memory but didnt you write a book on this or Blamey or something similar? I doubt there is a decent record of all those who died from friendly fire as well not to mention other activities like fragging in the Vietnam war. Just like Duntroon in the 70s could apparently be rather unpleasant so I have been told.

Special forces really don't want the big meatheaded knobs, and that's what BRS turned into.

As for Duntroon - Julian Knight's experiences instructive.

 

[Freo Big Fella]

Ben Roberts-Smith under police investigation for 'kicking handcuffed Afghan off small cliff'

Multiple defence sources have confirmed the Victoria Cross winner is the subject of an AFP inquiry into the brutalisation of Afghan farmer and father Ali Jan after he was taken into custody by the SAS on September 11, 2012.

www.smh.com.au

Builds on Friday's revelations - Roberts-Smith under AFP investigation.

The reaction from Seven (where BRS is an executive) and The West will be telling - Stokes won't broach any criticism of the SAS and (after BRS sued Fairfax for defamation) the paper basically editorialised that there shouldn't be any civilian oversight of their conduct at all.

 

[The Warlord]

In terms of the WA element, interesting that Hastie is front and square on 60 Minutes.

 

[Mofra]

In terms of the WA element, interesting that Hastie is front and square on 60 Minutes.

Hastie was on the 'other side' of the gung-ho divide. ADFA-brat, CO, ordered his troops to stop severing hands, etc.