Society/Culture Victoria Cross winner Ben Roberts-Smith - Allegations of bad behavior

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Thegibbsgamble

I beg to meg
Oct 28, 2017
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This may be because of a select few by assessing from action however it is cultural meaning the issue is widespread

Add up all the issues rather than just looking at one and we will see a deep problem
When I post Military on this forum the point I'm trying is no army, no government, no press has ever been any different, any better or any less worse. Nobody is always right or always wrong, never only one set of good guys and one set of guys.

I lived in area where before colonisation, the culture there, the surrounding cultures used a word in thier language to describe them, that meant assassins. Yet that culture got brutally destroyed by British invasion, and then the land got it as well. But, if that culture was named assassins by its neighbours, who did they at some point in thier history commit war crimes, that's what got them thier name, assassins.
 

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Boston tiger

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The vast, vast majority of roles within the australian defence force in this day and age do not involve getting shot at (with the SAS being an obvious exception).
But you don’t base your defence force leadership and management systems on peace time . You base them on.. everybody is getting shot at and dying ..because in the end that will help save lives of our young soldiers/ sailors/ airmen and ultimately you and me.
You’ve got to win.

As for the SAS. Too much has been put on to them. It’s an easy way for the Gov to go to war but not say we are at war. “ Oh we have sent the SAS etc .
 

Brunswick Trap King

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Don't tear down an entire group because of a select few.

That's a piss poor thing to say about the people that put their lives on the line for our country.

Punish and say what you want about those committing terrible acts.
Lol! Thank you to the SAS for protecting us from Afghani villagers. Where would we be without them?

Oh Lord.
 
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TheBrownDog
Oct 15, 2004
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Its what you sign up for. What percentage for rape and murder while your at it ?
One is part of the job and the other is an act of one’s own folly


Being ex military I have sympathy for those on the front line making quick life and death decisions. Sometimes right, sometimes wrong.

What I have zero tolerance for is sh*t management and culture. This is why I recommend charges all the way to the PM, via the defence minister, the DG etc. Obviously not murder charges but the same charges a civilian director would encounter for not having controls to mitigate this risk. Specifically culture.
 

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TheBrownDog
Oct 15, 2004
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When I post Military on this forum the point I'm trying is no army, no government, no press has ever been any different, any better or any less worse. Nobody is always right or always wrong, never only one set of good guys and one set of guys.

I lived in area where before colonisation, the culture there, the surrounding cultures used a word in thier language to describe them, that meant assassins. Yet that culture got brutally destroyed by British invasion, and then the land got it as well. But, if that culture was named assassins by its neighbours, who did they at some point in thier history commit war crimes, that's what got them thier name, assassins.
Yep

And I’ll add, even good guys get nasty when they fear death, endure hardship or see their mates of family dying.

Toilet paper multiplied by 10,000!


That’s why I’m sympathetic to those at the front
 

Baltimore Jack

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There is a thing called 'Rules of Engagement'
Those rules are explained and agreed to prior to the operation commencing

The SAS would know what they are, if they broke the RoE without authority it is a crime
 

Boston tiger

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One is part of the job and the other is an act of one’s own folly


Being ex military I have sympathy for those on the front line making quick life and death decisions. Sometimes right, sometimes wrong.

What I have zero tolerance for is sh*t management and culture. This is why I recommend charges all the way to the PM, via the defence minister, the DG etc. Obviously not murder charges but the same charges a civilian director would encounter for not having controls to mitigate this risk. Specifically culture.
That would make people sit up and think. War is the ultimate insanity.. that’s my baseline in all this. Without sounding dickie I hope some good comes out of all this.
What’s your view on civilian deaths by bombing?That seems to still get a free pass.
 

Baltimore Jack

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Te other relevant point is that Military Law is a required subject for each promotion within the Aus Army (Subject C)
It is mandatory to pass that subject for each and very promotion
So anyone with at least 2 stripes and upwards knows the law
 

Thegibbsgamble

I beg to meg
Oct 28, 2017
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Yep

And I’ll add, even good guys get nasty when they fear death, endure hardship or see their mates of family dying.

Toilet paper multiplied by 10,000!


That’s why I’m sympathetic to those at the front
However, since the advent of the Internet, we're now in the age of information. Any man or woman who volunteers to go fight in what are oil or opium ward, can't claim ignorance. Hundreds of thousands of people protested last decade about these wars. Many media outlets around the world printed the facts, Assange provided a smoking gun about these wars. Today's vets are not the same as those 19 year old sent to nam against thier will.
 

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TheBrownDog
Oct 15, 2004
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However, since the advent of the Internet, we're now in the age of information. Any man or woman who volunteers to go fight in what are oil or opium ward, can't claim ignorance. Hundreds of thousands of people protested last decade about these wars. Many media outlets around the world printed the facts, Assange provided a smoking gun about these wars. Today's vets are not the same as those 19 year old sent to nam against thier will.
When I joined in 92 I was thinking about chicks and 35% unemployment for young adult males.

The Cold War was over, no terrorism on the horizon just a genocide in Africa, some turmoil in SEAsia, remnants of the first Iraq war, Fiji and the finishing off with East Timor.


The one thing I learnt during this time is jobs cease hostilities where hostilities are prolonged through conflict.

I have ex soldiers and ex abu Sayyaf fighters working together in the Philippines, returning to normal family life. Perhaps our government can learn from this, given they taught this to our military in the 90s.
 

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Leeda

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I''m not into walloping people especially those who are in the middle of the crisis... I prefer to interrogate the people who are often digested and spat
out when they are perhaps more innocent than most of do the wrong thing..

I am a fair and equitable employer... I like to see all sides of the spectrum..

so help me god.. we need you now...
 

Number37

24.96
Oct 5, 2013
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I''m not into walloping people especially those who are in the middle of the crisis... I prefer to interrogate the people who are often digested and spat
out when they are perhaps more innocent than most of do the wrong thing..

I am a fair and equitable employer... I like to see all sides of the spectrum..

so help me god.. we need you now...
God can't help you. I think you need to pray to Scomo.

Our Father, which art in parliament,
Scomo be thy Name.
Thy Kingdom come.
Thy will be done in earth,
As it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily toilet paper.
And forgive us our trespasses at Coles,
As we forgive them that trespass against us.
And lead us not into panic buying,
But deliver us from coronavirus.
For thine is the kingdom, The power, and the glory,
Until the next election.
Amen
 

Leeda

Talons B Sharp
Sep 26, 2012
5,975
1,020
AFL Club
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God can't help you. I think you need to pray to Scomo.

Our Father, which art in parliament,
Scomo be thy Name.
Thy Kingdom come.
Thy will be done in earth,
As it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily toilet paper.
And forgive us our trespasses at Coles,
As we forgive them that trespass against us.
And lead us not into panic buying,
But deliver us from coronavirus.
For thine is the kingdom, The power, and the glory,
Until the next election.
Amen
very nice dude but you are being catastrophic in you r will and we don't applaud rejection by obvious sarcasm.. get on it.. watching
 

schneebly1

Cancelled
Jan 18, 2020
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Maybe this should put to an end the string of ex army officers being thrown up in Vice Regal roles. If they couldn't stop their troops behaving like this they're hardly people who should be held up as exemplary.
It’s a way of militarising our culture.
Just like America, with their “thank you for your service” culture. Not only can’t you say anything bad about the military, you HAVE to support them and thank them and call them heroes at every opportunity.

Everywhere I’ve been in the US if anyone is identified as a soldier they get thank you’s, hand shakes, offers to pay for drinks, meals. People give up their seats for them. They are fawned over in every form of culture from the Ellen Show to the NFL. This for people who may do nothing more than an administrative job in a base stateside and have never been shot at.

Whilst most civilian professions get ignored or get some lip service if they’re in the media for a little while (like firefighters here recently, and healthcare workers are at the moment) but once they’ve faded from the news cycle they’ll be dismissed and we’ll go back to military hero worship.

Even the Minister for Veteran’s Affairs said all Australians should shake the hand of any member of the military and thank them for their service. The powers that be want this American military hero worship culture here no doubt.

So if another Lib government is in power they’ll probably put a former General in charge. Let the “civvie scum” know their place. Which is a label I’m told is quite widespread in the military, and not a joke either. I’ve come across it in varying degrees from former military. From bragging about how much better they are at whatever they do than “civvies”, to downright hatred of civilians. Pure hatred.
 

Baltimore Jack

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Maybe this should put to an end the string of ex army officers being thrown up in Vice Regal roles. If they couldn't stop their troops behaving like this they're hardly people who should be held up as exemplary.
And the Militarising of a football game that just happens to fall on ANZAC day

Why do we need to have Military types carrying weapons of death on the MCG before a footy game?
 

schneebly1

Cancelled
Jan 18, 2020
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However, since the advent of the Internet, we're now in the age of information. Any man or woman who volunteers to go fight in what are oil or opium ward, can't claim ignorance. Hundreds of thousands of people protested last decade about these wars. Many media outlets around the world printed the facts, Assange provided a smoking gun about these wars. Today's vets are not the same as those 19 year old sent to nam against thier will.
Too true.

The ones whom I knew from high school who joined up to the combat units weren’t about “freedom” or “service” or the “Anzac spirit”.

As they openly said they wanted to “shoot c**ts” and“blow sh*t the f**k up” legally. They were all violent bullies in school so no surprises there. They even bragged about going to the Middle East and “capping towel heads”.

The ones who joined non combatant roles? Either wanted free trade and technical training, a steady job, or they were bored. Again none of them because of “service” or “sacrifice” or whatever DFR brainwashes you with. It’s mostly a decision on the dollar.
 

schneebly1

Cancelled
Jan 18, 2020
84
161
AFL Club
Richmond
And the Militarising of a football game that just happens to fall on ANZAC day

Why do we need to have Military types carrying weapons of death on the MCG before a footy game?
It’s funny how those who want Indigenous round, LGBT games, etc stopped for “politicising the game with overt PC culture” are the first to demand silence and respect on that number example of PC culture in this country, Anzac Day.

We need to have them carrying weapons of death at the footy because it’s a great opportunity to brainwashed young kids into enlisting. In the US those pre football match military ceremonies are funded from the recruitment department of the military. It’s pure PR and recruitment, nothing more.
 

Brunswick Trap King

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Too true.

The ones whom I knew from high school who joined up to the combat units weren’t about “freedom” or “service” or the “Anzac spirit”.

As they openly said they wanted to “shoot c**ts” and“blow sh*t the f**k up” legally. They were all violent bullies in school so no surprises there. They even bragged about going to the Middle East and “capping towel heads”.

The ones who joined non combatant roles? Either wanted free trade and technical training, a steady job, or they were bored. Again none of them because of “service” or “sacrifice” or whatever DFR brainwashes you with. It’s mostly a decision on the dollar.
Most that I knew had nothing more to offer society so they joined the military.
 

Thegibbsgamble

I beg to meg
Oct 28, 2017
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Too true.

The ones whom I knew from high school who joined up to the combat units weren’t about “freedom” or “service” or the “Anzac spirit”.

As they openly said they wanted to “shoot c**ts” and“blow sh*t the f**k up” legally. They were all violent bullies in school so no surprises there. They even bragged about going to the Middle East and “capping towel heads”.

The ones who joined non combatant roles? Either wanted free trade and technical training, a steady job, or they were bored. Again none of them because of “service” or “sacrifice” or whatever DFR brainwashes you with. It’s mostly a decision on the dollar.
I feel For those who the military is a way of life and politics have put them in this position. Those in the service before these oil and opium wars and those whose father's and grandfather's made a career out of the military

But having said that, I know a few who've been to these wars, they're brainwashed into hating a certain religion, to be racist.

Its only when we're open about everything, will we see change.
 

Thegibbsgamble

I beg to meg
Oct 28, 2017
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3,112
AFL Club
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When I joined in 92 I was thinking about chicks and 35% unemployment for young adult males.

The Cold War was over, no terrorism on the horizon just a genocide in Africa, some turmoil in SEAsia, remnants of the first Iraq war, Fiji and the finishing off with East Timor.


The one thing I learnt during this time is jobs cease hostilities where hostilities are prolonged through conflict.

I have ex soldiers and ex abu Sayyaf fighters working together in the Philippines, returning to normal family life. Perhaps our government can learn from this, given they taught this to our military in the 90s.
I nearly Joined at the same time. Youth unemployment 57 percent where I was. Dad a national servicemen in the early fifties, granddad's who both served on the western front in the war to end all wars but just started worse ones. I was looking at a trade but also special forces caught my eye. I ordered in a rambo knife in 1985 and wanted to be like him, lived in the country and had good gun skills.

It wasn't until 2008 after working for dva transporting elderly veterans and hearing thier stories and wisdom, did my view really change.

Even our peace keepers in Rwanda were doing the same as now. That war was about rare earth's nasa and Bill Gates needed for thier technology.
 

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TheBrownDog
Oct 15, 2004
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I nearly Joined at the same time. Youth unemployment 57 percent where I was. Dad a national servicemen in the early fifties, granddad's who both served on the western front in the war to end all wars but just started worse ones. I was looking at a trade but also special forces caught my eye. I ordered in a rambo knife in 1985 and wanted to be like him, lived in the country and had good gun skills.

It wasn't until 2008 after working for dva transporting elderly veterans and hearing thier stories and wisdom, did my view really change.

Even our peace keepers in Rwanda were doing the same as now. That war was about rare earth's nasa and Bill Gates needed for thier technology.
You’ll never look at many so called charities the same after serving.

So many are fronts for military intelligence




FTR I’m not anti-war, as I think it is a necessary evil. I would ask everyone to think twice about war and stand up for what’s right. However that’s difficult in a complex world and corrupt media.

This won’t change until we ban nations having a population greater than 40m. Essentially forcing nations to divide just like we did with standard oil.
 

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