Society/Culture Victoria Cross winner Ben Roberts-Smith - Allegations of war crimes

Jan 12, 2011
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Either way we will have a defence force. As Cromwell said by Hook or by Crook.
The last time we had conscription it actually caused a s**t storm of trouble inside the Military

The poor bastards were given every s**t job that came along and they resented it and 'jacked up' against it
That created even greater divisions and made life even worse
They were never ever really acknowledged as being "Regulars"
 

Boston tiger

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The last time we had conscription it actually caused a s**t storm of trouble inside the Military

The poor bastards were given every s**t job that came along and they resented it and 'jacked up' against it
That created even greater divisions and made life even worse
They were never ever really acknowledged as being "Regulars"

Yes.. best just make joining the forces something worth doing. Appreciating them helps the situation
 
May 1, 2016
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Yes.. best just make joining the forces something worth doing. Appreciating them helps the situation
I agree. There is a distinction, though, between appreciating the sacrifice that servicepeople make and naming each of them as heroes.

The point of ANZAC is that these were every day Australians and New Zealanders who made these sacrifices. By lionising them, you make it difficult for normal people to see themselves in our vets, and that has numerous consequences for the vets when they return.
 
Jun 14, 2015
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I'm calling BULLSHIT on BRS' "acts of valor". They read like a scene out of a Stallone film.
Burn his medal.


"Fresh witness statements supporting allegations Mr Roberts-Smith ordered two other soldiers in his command to kill unarmed men in separate incidents."
 

Schneebly11

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Looks like there’s been more developments in the Ben Roberts Smith case, and the SAS Afghan War Crimes trial in general.


Going out of his way to leak classified info to the benefit of BRS’s defence. Looks like this is being dragged out to the point where they can bury it with little consequences.

Some other sources saying options up to disbanding the SAS may need to be looked at!:

 
Apr 18, 2005
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He did a good job saving lives and earning the medal, hard to discount that. These latest allegations are damning however, best to let it play out. See what is concluded by law. As for stripping the medal if he is guilty? Well he did save his fellow soldiers by risking his own life. He probably has to keep it.

Tricky one
 

Thegibbsgamble

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Oct 28, 2017
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As it stands it looks like Afghanistan are more willing to prosecute war criminals than we are. At least Hekmatullah served seven years.
look the dates of what he did. Look at the dates of brs and soldier c.

Look what he said, as to the reasons why he did what he did.

Then ask yourself, who is the true hero?
 
Oct 2, 2007
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I mean the Newspapers he's suing are not backing down. They're adding more allegations of murder into their Statements of Defence via amendments.

And BRS is now sitting on his hands and relying on submissions made by the AG's office to refuse to produce evidence he's even named as a Person of interest in the ongoing inquiry into war crimes.

He'd better be vindicated, or this is going to cost him a shitload of money in costs. Silks everywhere.

From what I'm hearing as an ex Soldier from Bens old unit, it's not looking great for him or the Unit. There is both a fair bit of discontent at what is perceived as a 'Witch Hunt' (mainly from the ECN 353 Operators, many of whom are innocent in this bullshit, or in denial about what happened), and a small (but vocal) minority who know what went on with some of these Punisher/ Spartan Warrior *-heads and repudiated it fully (mainly from the Chooks and Medics attached to the door kicker Patrols, but also to be fair a decent amount of the Operators as well).

Tellingly the new SOCAUST (head of Australian Special Forces) is a Commando (and not an SASR Operator). First time it's ever happened. Almost certainly the CDF is cleaning out the boys club a little, and getting ready for a damning report into the SASR.

In a way it was inevitable. The blokes just went on deployment after deployment after deployment after deployment. For over 15 years of non-stop rotations, and they basically policed themselves in an environment where that s**t was just allowed to fester.

I have a feeling people are going to swing for this, and the Regiment is gonna get smashed.
 

Schneebly11

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I mean the Newspapers he's suing are not backing down. They're adding more allegations of murder into their Statements of Defence via amendments.

And BRS is now sitting on his hands and relying on submissions made by the AG's office to refuse to produce evidence he's even named as a Person of interest in the ongoing inquiry into war crimes.

He'd better be vindicated, or this is going to cost him a shitload of money in costs. Silks everywhere.

It would be near on impossible for BRS to win his defamation case. Journalists use the word “allegedly” for a reason, and I haven’t seen any instance where 9/SMH/Age have directly said he committed the crimes, it’s always allegedly.

Plus they have serving and former SAS as witnesses to the crimes plus an IGADF inquiry and AFP investigation almost certain to point the finger at BRS.

It’s not going to cost BRS a cent however. Kerry Stokes and 7 media will cover his costs, plus I’d imagine groups like the IPA and those who backed up Pell will also go into bat for what will surely become one of the divisive culture war debates they thrive on.

I have a feeling people are going to swing for this, and the Regiment is gonna get smashed.

Depends on the willingness of the government to see this as a culture war issue. Looks like some in the ADF are trying to disassociate themselves from the SAS.A comparison has been made with the Canadian Airborne Regiment which was disbanded after two murders in Somalia, but Canada seems a little more advanced than Australia.

I’ve read a big reason for the SAS crimes, amongst other things, was their close association with the US Navy SEALs. The SEALs have been uncovered as having a “kill count” culture and that may have rubbed off on the SAS. One of their members, Eddie Gallagher, was convicted of war crimes after being dobbed in by other SEALs but was pardoned by Trump after Fox News made out he was a victim of “Liberal bureaucrats who hate our troops”. There’s already been articles defending BRS in right wing media here.
 
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I mean the Newspapers he's suing are not backing down. They're adding more allegations of murder into their Statements of Defence via amendments.

And BRS is now sitting on his hands and relying on submissions made by the AG's office to refuse to produce evidence he's even named as a Person of interest in the ongoing inquiry into war crimes.

He'd better be vindicated, or this is going to cost him a shitload of money in costs. Silks everywhere.

From what I'm hearing as an ex Soldier from Bens old unit, it's not looking great for him or the Unit. There is both a fair bit of discontent at what is perceived as a 'Witch Hunt' (mainly from the ECN 353 Operators, many of whom are innocent in this bullshit, or in denial about what happened), and a small (but vocal) minority who know what went on with some of these Punisher/ Spartan Warrior fu**-heads and repudiated it fully (mainly from the Chooks and Medics attached to the door kicker Patrols, but also to be fair a decent amount of the Operators as well).

Tellingly the new SOCAUST (head of Australian Special Forces) is a Commando (and not an SASR Operator). First time it's ever happened. Almost certainly the CDF is cleaning out the boys club a little, and getting ready for a damning report into the SASR.

In a way it was inevitable. The blokes just went on deployment after deployment after deployment after deployment. For over 15 years of non-stop rotations, and they basically policed themselves in an environment where that sh*t was just allowed to fester.

I have a feeling people are going to swing for this, and the Regiment is gonna get smashed.

BRS will get Fk'd hard!

I had dinner on Sunday night with ex military mates including SAS, Pusser's and those now ranked walking the corridors of Canberra

According to the corridors of Canberra:
1) medals striped
2) serious charges
3) verdict already decided by most


The ADF has two options with scenarios like this
1) Sweep under the carpet and maintain the important trust of the international community to enable "hearts and minds"; or if it can't be swept
2) prosecute and punish




Kerry Stokes may regret being associated with BRE and so to may Basil Zemplis
 
Jun 11, 2007
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Going beyond BRS to the wider reports of war crimes in Afghanistan. If found to be true this stuff is sickening. I won't even quote it - just read the whole thing.


My tax dollars keep these sick f*cks well fed and in employment representing our nation overseas? I hope justice is done but somehow I think there will be lacks of evidence and an inability to prove anything beyond reasonable doubt...
 
Jan 12, 2011
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Going beyond BRS to the wider reports of war crimes in Afghanistan. If found to be true this stuff is sickening. I won't even quote it - just read the whole thing.


My tax dollars keep these sick f*cks well fed and in employment representing our nation overseas? I hope justice is done but somehow I think there will be lacks of evidence and an inability to prove anything beyond reasonable doubt...

Australian special forces soldiers were fuelled by "blood lust" when they tortured and executed prisoners in Afghanistan and then covered up their actions, according to a briefing handed to military chiefs which likened the conduct of some troops to that of American soldiers in Abu Ghraib.

The confidential report was commissioned in 2016 by then chief of army Angus Campbell and is the most detailed and significant internal military dossier to be aired about the special forces' war crimes scandal that took place during the war in Afghanistan between 2001 and 2015. It was the catalyst for the soon-to-be-completed four-year Inspector-General inquiry into war crimes by senior judge Paul Brereton.
 

Thegibbsgamble

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Oct 28, 2017
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I mean the Newspapers he's suing are not backing down. They're adding more allegations of murder into their Statements of Defence via amendments.

And BRS is now sitting on his hands and relying on submissions made by the AG's office to refuse to produce evidence he's even named as a Person of interest in the ongoing inquiry into war crimes.

He'd better be vindicated, or this is going to cost him a shitload of money in costs. Silks everywhere.

From what I'm hearing as an ex Soldier from Bens old unit, it's not looking great for him or the Unit. There is both a fair bit of discontent at what is perceived as a 'Witch Hunt' (mainly from the ECN 353 Operators, many of whom are innocent in this bullshit, or in denial about what happened), and a small (but vocal) minority who know what went on with some of these Punisher/ Spartan Warrior fu**-heads and repudiated it fully (mainly from the Chooks and Medics attached to the door kicker Patrols, but also to be fair a decent amount of the Operators as well).

Tellingly the new SOCAUST (head of Australian Special Forces) is a Commando (and not an SASR Operator). First time it's ever happened. Almost certainly the CDF is cleaning out the boys club a little, and getting ready for a damning report into the SASR.

In a way it was inevitable. The blokes just went on deployment after deployment after deployment after deployment. For over 15 years of non-stop rotations, and they basically policed themselves in an environment where that sh*t was just allowed to fester.

I have a feeling people are going to swing for this, and the Regiment is gonna get smashed.
There is not 1 legitimate war Australia has been involved in since ww2. We've been the bad guys ever since. Al. Queda was trained by the British sas and so was pol Pot. Australian officers were seconded to that regiment in Hereford at that very time. Australian special Forces were also involved in controlling cocaine operations on behalf of escobar in columbia.

It's got nothing to do with rotations.


We were Fighting wheat farmers in Afghanistan on behalf of drug lords

My father did the same ******* s**t in Africa in the 50s for recources

Now this is what courage really is, speak Truth. Like those sas soldiers who are whistle blowers.

But you show Me 1.lawyer who believes in truth? The only way a lawyer can further thier career, is by lying.
 
Yes.. best just make joining the forces something worth doing. Appreciating them helps the situation
They already do, the ADF is exceeding their recruitment targets. In addition the RAN is actually in excess of its FTE budget and will soon announce an increase from approximately 15K to 20K FTE. This is in preparation for the new submarines, Hunter class frigates and OPV's coming online.
 
Going beyond BRS to the wider reports of war crimes in Afghanistan. If found to be true this stuff is sickening. I won't even quote it - just read the whole thing.


My tax dollars keep these sick f*cks well fed and in employment representing our nation overseas? I hope justice is done but somehow I think there will be lacks of evidence and an inability to prove anything beyond reasonable doubt...

I wonder what % of our customs/ border force, cops, feds and other agencies have gone on to employ ex servicemen?

It might explain a lot.
 
Yeah i'm no lawyer but this doesn't seem good



Digging deeper

Perverting the course of justice, seeking false statements in stat decs or courts, murder, breaches of the geneva convention.............who knows where this goes
 
Oct 2, 2007
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hypothetically..
If someone is awarded a VC for an action then sometime later kills an innocent civilian, should the VC be rescinded?

I would think a review into that persons ongoing entitlement to the award should be conducted.

A VC recipient that engages in wilful and deliberate murder should lose the entitlement to that award in most circumstances for mine.

It is our highest honour. Having a convicted murderer, rapist, traitor to the Commonwealth, paedo or war criminal retain their entitlement to the award, diminishes that honour for other recipients, and calls the honour itself into disrepute.
 
hypothetically..
If someone is awarded a VC for an action then sometime later kills an innocent civilian, should the VC be rescinded?

yes, as per the law (https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/C2010Q00025)

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Jun 11, 2007
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Just looking into past recipients who had their VC taken from them. A British soldier from the Second Afghan War (1878-80) was stripped of his - for having two wives!


July 28, 1880 — James Collis was serving with the Royal Horse Artillery and he and his comrades were on their way to Kandahar. They had just suffered a massive loss at the hands of their enemies at Maiwand, Afghanistan.

However, they were attacked by Afghan forces while they were retreating. The officer in-charge of the battery was trying to bring in a limber – two-wheeled cart designed to support the trail of an artillery piece – which carried wounded men when they got caught in the crossfire.

Seeing this, Collis rushed in to aid by racing forward. Because of his action, the enemies focused their fires on him; he was able to divert their attention away from the limber.

Collis survived and on May 16, 1881, he was awarded the Victoria Cross...

...When he got discharged from the army in 1881, he went to India and joined the Bombay Police. The following year, he got married to Adela Grace Skuse, a widow residing in the Indian city...

...James Collis returned to the UK in 1884...

...Eventually, he met and married Mary Goddard in 1893. However, he did so without her knowledge that he had a wife in India. Two years into their marriage life, the war hero’s deception was discovered.

Collis was sentenced to bigamy and was punished by having had to spend 18 months in hard labor. And under the Royal Warrant of 1856’s original regulations, the one who started Britain and the Commonwealth’s most distinguished war honor, he was forfeited of his Victoria Cross because of his crime...
 
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