Society/Culture Victoria Cross winner Ben Roberts-Smith - Allegations of war crimes

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Malifice

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the gap between US the next is material
the gap between china/ russia and 4th (india) is material
the gap between India and Japan is material

Australia is 19th well behind powerhouse nations like Egypt, Iran, Indonesia and Spain
No, we're 13th, and above every country you mention there.

• Ranking: military spending by country 2019 | Statista

We also have a mutual protection pact with the country at number 1 on that list (the USA) via ANZUS, who have forces stationed here, consider Australia vital to their own interests in the region and abroad. In addition to AUSCANNXUKU, a War with Australia is almost certain to also include a war with the USA, UK, Canada and New Zealand (lol).
 
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Over The Post

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We spend close to 50 billion AUD per year on Defence, which is not far behind great powers like the UK (42 billion pounds), France (50 billion USD) and Germany (63 billion USD), making us firmly a middle (and regional) power.
Yes, and how much of that is actual potential defence of Australia vs the cost of admission to hang out with the school bully?

What do we, as a country, gain from going around helping to beat up brown and black kids, so the bully can steal their food and lunch money or charge "protection from" the "other bullies"?

An empty promise that if the Chinks or Slavs stick up for their mates and bitchslap us into the middle of next week, or stop *our* lunch money, the bully will save us?

That's not how bullies work. Either at school, or on the world stage.

The only way the bully will lend a hand is if a) it suits them, and b) there is no real risk they'll get a blood nose, and c) we sign over everything we own or will ever own.
 

Kwality

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he can't get himself out of this mess but as long as he will play the game.. it is sad but he crapped on his world..

like I said before he needs to read the signs.. he is ready to crap on anyone else who despises him.. including his ex wife..
just sad and well we will see it to the end.. I am not even sure of his VC... that is a lot to lose..
Are you saying he will be found guilty?
 

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Power Raid

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No, we're 13th, and above every country you mention there.

• Ranking: military spending by country 2019 | Statista

We also have a mutual protection pact with the country at number 1 on that list (the USA) via ANZUS, who have forces stationed here, consider Australia vital to their own interests in the region and abroad. In addition to AUSCANNXUKU, a War with Australia is almost certain to also include a war with the USA, UK, Canada and New Zealand (lol).
$s doesn't translate to capability



19th
 

PP34

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Far less putting their hands up these days:


Trends were showing a declining interest before Covid. Sure, the baseline was the 100 year anniversary in 2015 but we we’re told the anniversary would spark a long term interest in Anzac Day and attendances would remain permanently high. They haven’t.

Why? I don’t think the expose of war crimes has played a role, that’s only happened recently. Maybe wider society is just disengaging from the day altogether. Less WW2 veterans around in recent years especially. Changing demographics. I’m sure I read an opinion poll a while back that showed Anzac Day (or maybe both Anzac and Australia Day) are seen by the majority as just another public holiday rather than a patriotic event they need to mark.

I can’t say that the expose of what really happened in Afghanistan and how the most “elite” part of the military really acts is going to spark revival in the day.
I don’t think society relates to soldiers going over to Afghanistan etc. All the war mongering people and politicians who crap on about them protecting our freedom etc don’t get through to a lot of people. If anything all modern western conflict has led to is more danger for the average Joe. Terrorist attacks aren’t necessarily happening because they hate our freedoms. The interference in the Middle East has pissed off and created dangerous organisations that feel the need to retaliate.

As more and more World War Two soldiers die it will only continue to drop in my opinion. People can emphasise and be proud of their descendants who fought against Nazis or feel sadness for the naive Aussies butchered at Gallipoli. There just isn’t that same feeling for high numbers when it comes to Afghanistan etc. That’s not to say every soldier to fight somewhere recently is Ben Roberts-Smith or not deserving of some acknowledgment. But I just think people view things differently.
 

PP34

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Kwality

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Terrorism just didn’t pop up from nowhere. You can thank all the apparently necessarily intervention by the US and their cronies for it.

This idea that terrorism appeared in isolation and these people just hate our freedom is so comical.
Just popped up because of the Yanks, fair dinkum: so comical.

 

Over The Post

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Just popped up because of the Yanks, fair dinkum: so comical.

Random example, for shits and giggles. Israel invades Texas. Bombs the living fu** out of oil installations and starts sucking what's left into tankers to send back to Tel Aviv. Kicks American arse and turns Houston and Austin and San Antonio into rubble. US forces retain the northern half of the state on a line just south of Waco. Mexico sends in its armies across the south-west border to "secure" El Paso and surrounds, with the overt support of the invading Israelis.

Outside of the main cities, guerilla action by Texas-flag-waving militias is crushed by Israel's military superiority. Reprisals against these "terrorist attacks" are carried out. The militias go underground, stop their flag-waving, and blend in with the population, emerging to ambush Israeli patrols before melting back into the countryside. Atrocities are committed by both sides. Nobody is safe. The Israeli media scream about every militia action while ignoring or downplaying theirs. The longer the Israelis are there, the more hostile the civilian population becomes both to the occupying armed forces and the puppet government installed in San Antonio, and the more support given to the militias, who respond by aiding the locals who no longer have access to power, sanitation, enough food or water, or medical facilities.

So, given your black and white view of this: are the militias terrorists or freedom fighters? What happens if you play that scenario along slightly different lines in, lets say, Iraq? Afghanistan? Libya? Syria? Yemen? Yugoslavia? Palestine?
 

Christopher Buttersnip

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Significant. Not in the same ball park as China, Russia or the USA, but significant. We're the 13th largest economy in the world, and one of the largest exporters of mineral resources in the world (and have been central to Chinas economic boom for decades).

Obviously we're not in the same ballpark as USA or China or any other Superpower or global power, but we're also not some 3rd world shithole either.
So you said in your previous post. To cut to the chase any utterance by us on the global stage carries virtually no weight and numbers and equipment-wise militarily we carry virtually no weight either ie people grossly exaggerate our importance, power, and influence.
 

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Kwality

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Random example, for shits and giggles. Israel invades Texas. Bombs the living fu** out of oil installations and starts sucking what's left into tankers to send back to Tel Aviv. Kicks American arse and turns Houston and Austin and San Antonio into rubble. US forces retain the northern half of the state on a line just south of Waco. Mexico sends in its armies across the south-west border to "secure" El Paso and surrounds, with the overt support of the invading Israelis.

Outside of the main cities, guerilla action by Texas-flag-waving militias is crushed by Israel's military superiority. Reprisals against these "terrorist attacks" are carried out. The militias go underground, stop their flag-waving, and blend in with the population, emerging to ambush Israeli patrols before melting back into the countryside. Atrocities are committed by both sides. Nobody is safe. The Israeli media scream about every militia action while ignoring or downplaying theirs. The longer the Israelis are there, the more hostile the civilian population becomes both to the occupying armed forces and the puppet government installed in San Antonio, and the more support given to the militias, who respond by aiding the locals who no longer have access to power, sanitation, enough food or water, or medical facilities.

So, given your black and white view of this: are the militias terrorists or freedom fighters? What happens if you play that scenario along slightly different lines in, lets say, Iraq? Afghanistan? Libya? Syria? Yemen? Yugoslavia? Palestine?
No need for random examples, try the real world, none of the make believe.

Black & white, not that easy. So many agendas.
I understand the Yanks wanting a pound of flesh after 9/11. Staying in Afghanistan was unforgivable, no wonder the locals want a their pay day.
 

Baltimore Jack

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I leave this to the powers at be.. he is testing and he is settling into and well this is two things.. his wife and his profession..
There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know we don't know.
 

Leeda

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There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know we don't know.
lol... very funny... I can gather that ... rough nights and less than equal perspective..
very funny dude...Jack is what he does..
 

MC Bad Genius

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Yeah, that adds a bit of contextual light to the situation. BRS has obviously chosen a lawyer who subscribes to a similar action plan as himself though. Goes from "not a threat" to making threats almost in the same breath.

Mr Roberts-Smith's barrister, Bruce McClintock QC, later said he was "simply not in a position" to waive the confidentiality agreement, and also rejected the classification of the correspondence as a threat.

"It wasn't a threat," he said.

"It was simply a requirement that she obey an agreement she entered into in February this year, only two or three months ago."

Mr McClintock said despite the case being "pretty awful already" he would need to cross-examine Ms Roberts to put to her that she is a liar.

He suggested his opponents should "re-think what they're doing" because "sometimes you can pay too high a price to air a family's dirty linen".
 

PP34

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Just popped up because of the Yanks, fair dinkum: so comical.

Point is terrorism doesn’t just happen in isolation.

You can point to plenty of actions by the West that result in these terrorist attacks. 9/11, the attacks on Paris etc didn’t just happen because the attackers hate how John from NY was living his life. The idea that that’s why they’ve been attacked is just a joke.

Western intervention has only made the region worse and left a nice big void for ISIS to pop up.
 

Kwality

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Point is terrorism doesn’t just happen in isolation.

You can point to plenty of actions by the West that result in these terrorist attacks. 9/11, the attacks on Paris etc didn’t just happen because the attackers hate how John from NY was living his life. The idea that that’s why they’ve been attacked is just a joke.

Western intervention has only made the region worse and left a nice big void for ISIS to pop up.
Tribal wars have been happening for Centurys across all continents, and as the travel gets easier so does modern day terrorism.

I agree that people wanting to put their nose into other peoples business cant be looked at in isolation, & just as 9/11 brought a response, so does anyone wanting their own way, failing to respect different opinions. live & let live.
 

Kwality

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Of course. So why not invade Saudi Arabia instead of Afghanistan? Or why not invade Pakistan as soon as it was confirmed Bin Laden wasn't in Tora Bora and had crossed the border?
Guess its because I lived through it, I understand why Afghanistan. The 'what ifs' werent on the table.
I agree the US overstayed its welcome in Afghanistan effectively fighting the status quo of the local society/the Taliban trying to bring western values to religion, education and freedom. Happy for you to apply more political terms if that floats your boat.

Do you have some to reason for applying the wisdom of hindsight to ask why a decision was not made ..... :rolleyes:
 

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