Rumour Victoria Stadium (poll added)

[blackcat]

Bigger isn't better, when it comes to stadium yield. As you say bc there is a sweet spot and unlike the NFL where you only have 32 teams in a country that has at least 50 metro areas greater than 1 mil and no more than 2 teams in that area, a 50-55k stadium provides better stadium yield in Oz than an 75k+ as it does in USA. MCG average - big and small games inc was 48.3k in 2015 and 46.9k in 2014.
http://afltables.com/afl/crowds/vn_mcg.html

Eddie has been doing his best Donald Trump impersonation the last couple of weeks. First he jumped up and down moaning that moving a single game 18kms down the road is the greatest act of treachery since Judas sold out JC, and now his build the new stadium next to my club and piss off other sports is for the benefit of all not just me act.

but it is not merely yield. it is an intersection between yield and what the Power have at Adelaide Oval re: viewing and crowd(really, more fan) atmosphere

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

but it is not merely yield. it is an intersection between yield and what the Power have at Adelaide Oval re: viewing and crowd(really, more fan) atmosphere

yeah true, but I emphasized yield because a lot of people dont get that you can actually get a better yield ie net return, not gross, by having 25,000 less seats.

 

[MagpieJoel]

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...5aut8x7iy8txxxpjdp4468dxbjdsk1he5u7h1e616i69c

Former premier, Jeff Kennett, believes the 'Victoria Stadium' concept is dead and buried. Why? Because it potentially interferes with Melbourne's ability to host the Australian Tennis Open, and in any case, Melbourne has a contract to host the Open until 2036.

All of this tells me Daniel Andrews will probably push ahead like a bull in a china shop. That's his style

Jeff also forgot that it is possible to build a new tennis centre without it interrupting the tennis. Then they can knock down the old one.

 

[blackcat]

Not sure the Adelaide comparison is exactly a fit to this.

it is the inspiration behind this. And it is a business strategy to improve the bottom line of Collingwood. *

*obviously your P&L is not unhealthy, you are the Yankees. however, ceteris paribus, all things being equal. If you 2015 financial report is the default 0 year.

The MCG for big Collingwood games is magnificent.

and this would not change, they would not fixture a Carlton Collingwood game at Victoria Stadium

If we happened to play some smaller games say v Gold Coast, Eddiehadenough stadium is fine.

but the atmosphere is nothing like Adelaide Oval, for some reason it is pretty dead. Can you confect this culture-atmosphere that the Power have, the stadium at Adelaide Oval is a bit steeper and on the ground almost, and it is no surpise with fitzpatrick that Docklands design positioned itself for corporates when this is not really the culture in Australia.

I just don't get spending billion(s) on essentially moving something a few kilometres.

Well, the stadium yield may even pay the interest on the billions, like RussellEbertHandball intimated, and if Melbourne(city) could replicate was Adelaide(city) has

These things never stay on budget, we have the 50 k stadium which is fine, why move and re- do something that exists. Not logical and it's always easier with someone else's money.

indeed. seems like a significant indulgence

At the end who pays for it? Mr and Mrs taxpayer and mr and Mrs football going public.
Not for me.

corporate types like Fitzpatrick and McGuire love rent-seeking, they dont become wealthy wealthy without putting hands in troughs

Adelaide oval was a great fit because Adelaided needed a primo stand in the heart of the city.
Melbourne has that twice over.

indeed. great for the city of churches

 

[blackcat]

LOL ... Last time I looked Kochie and co were losing money out of Adelaide.

ceteris paribus. all things being equal. like to like.

Port Adelaide before AO redevelopment, less healthy
Port Adelaide post AO redevelopment, more healthy

It might be a goldmine for somebody, but that's not necessarily CFC.

as I said^
ceteris paribus

I get your point, and maybe Ed does too, but it's not the Collingwood way. That would turn us into an elitist club where you have to be a member to see a game and with very little gameday opposition supporter rivalry (see West Coast). That isn't Collingwood.

games that have capacity over 60k, they are moved across the road to the G. Like many have mentioned, putting 60k in a 60k stadium, creates atmosphere that 61k in the G cant touch. Opposition supporters will still get their seat

 

[blackcat]

Reminds me of this

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-magpie-stadium-no-pie-in-the-sky-20141124-11ssco.html


'Collingwood have revealed an ambitious long-term plan to build their own stadium and have already explored options for a new ground as the club announced another year of multimillion-dollar profits.

With limits on where and how profits can be spent on their players and football department, and with the club's newly expanded home facilities on the Yarra almost complete, the Magpies are canvassing options for further investment in the club. One possibility in the long term is to copy the big European soccer clubs that buttress their financial futures by owning their own stadiums.'

Eddies choice of name here I believe is quite intentional, and to plan the stadium so close to our training facilities, It would not surprise me in the slightest if this is an incredibly ambitious attempt at getting a government funded Collingwood home ground in Melbourne.

brother is in the ALP gov't in Spring Street. But he is an Essendon supporter
Frankie was in Natash Stott Despoija's office, and did he work with her bigtime flack PR spinner husband in private sector?

 

[Seedsfan]

Rebuild the stadium should be the first option. If you really wanna demolish Etihad, what will you do with the apartments and office building around it

Rebuilding is not an option, how would that be funded? If you rebuild it will be out of action for years and there are more pressing needs for the land in the Docklands

 

[doppleganger]

I get your point, and maybe Ed does too, but it's not the Collingwood way. That would turn us into an elitist club where you have to be a member to see a game and with very little gameday opposition supporter rivalry (see West Coast). That isn't Collingwood.

What is a "Collingwood" gameday atmosphere?

VicPark and MCG are chalk n cheese.

Even trying to turn the Ponsford into a Collingwood end hasn't worked as the legends members, as is their right, pick and choose when to come and use their reserved seats.

Envious of Geelong really, look after their own supporters, get a 40K stadium that is 90% GEELONG, and is a sell out almost every week. Would much prefer to have a situation like that for Collingwood.

Leave the G for the big finals and random public holiday blockbusters.

Melbourne doesn't need another generic all purpose large football stadium.

 

[blackcat]

Melbourne doesn't need another generic all purpose large football stadium.

definitely dont need another stadium. but... saying that. Adelaide Oval has something that is unique world over.

 

[Anzacday]

definitely dont need another stadium. but... saying that. Adelaide Oval has something that is unique world over.

Which came about because football and cricket worked together with the government.
Hence Eddie's comment about the AFL & MCC needing to work together.
There's a history of the AFL fighting with the MCC/Cricket Victoria which needs to stop.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Which came about because football and cricket worked together with the government.
Hence Eddie's comment about the AFL & MCC needing to work together.
There's a history of the AFL fighting with the MCC/Cricket Victoria which needs to stop.

Yes John Cain (an MCC member to boot) as premier did what he could to have the grand final at the MCG and not be relocated to an expanded vfl park.
So many fingers so many pies.

The real question after dismissing the latest nonsense (smash Etihad and smash hisense but build the same things again anyway) is where could a new facility be built that caters for 50 k or 60 k?

Showgrounds (excellent transport system, Flemington parking)
Re do princes park?
Victoria park?
Western oval?
Junction oval?
Or even Elsternwick park?
How about Fawkner Park?

 

[blackcat]

Which came about because football and cricket worked together with the government.
Hence Eddie's comment about the AFL & MCC needing to work together.
There's a history of the AFL fighting with the MCC/Cricket Victoria which needs to stop.

also, Adelaide Oval had a happy accident/correlated with all the structural requirements to put up AO 2.0

and aint it a bit mealy mouthed/hypocritical to be talking about working together?

this is not about brokering and mediation with cricket v AFL. this is all about rent seeking and collingwood motive expedience. NB. I AM NOT HAVING A GO AT THIS. this is hard tasked politicking. If he divulges partisan motive, it never gets up. Look how he was on the board of Aths Australia and Collingwood moved into Olympic Park and the Glasshouse or whatever it is called now, Lexus Centre/Westpac Centre. McGuire is a phenomenal asset for a professional sports team and Collingwood should have his value down on the balance sheet in the realm of a 10million dollar asset.

caveat: i actually dont like EM, but truth is, he is damn effective for his footy club. and I have been on record before on the Figbooty about this.

 

[Anzacday]

also, Adelaide Oval had a happy accident/correlated with all the structural requirements to put up AO 2.0

and aint it a bit mealy mouthed/hypocritical to be talking about working together?

this is not about brokering and mediation with cricket v AFL. this is all about rent seeking and collingwood motive expedience. NB. I AM NOT HAVING A GO AT THIS. this is hard tasked politicking. If he divulges partisan motive, it never gets up. Look how he was on the board of Aths Australia and Collingwood moved into Olympic Park and the Glasshouse or whatever it is called now, Lexus Centre/Westpac Centre. McGuire is a phenomenal asset for a professional sports team and Collingwood should have his value down on the balance sheet in the realm of a 10million dollar asset.

caveat: i actually dont like EM, but truth is, he is damn effective for his footy club. and I have been on record before on the Figbooty about this.

Where is this Figbooty you speak of?
Sounds intriguing.

 

[blackcat]

Yes John Cain (an MCC member to boot) as premier did what he could to have the grand final at the MCG and not be relocated to an expanded vfl park.
So many fingers so many pies.

The real question after dismissing the latest nonsense (smash Etihad and smash hisense but build the same things again anyway) is where could a new facility be built that caters for 50 k or 60 k?

Showgrounds (excellent transport system, Flemington parking)
Re do princes park?
Victoria park?
Western oval?
Junction oval?
Or even Elsternwick park?
How about Fawkner Park?

well, until you recognise that it was not Eddie's beneficence that brought him here, but sure self-interest motive and expedience for his club, then you are on the wrong track.

I have never seen a sports event or a concert at Docklands, but why does it need to be taken down? When does the AFL take ownership rights from Fitzpatrick's infrastructure trust, who whoever bought the infrastructure business off him?

 

[Anzacday]

also, Adelaide Oval had a happy accident/correlated with all the structural requirements to put up AO 2.0

and aint it a bit mealy mouthed/hypocritical to be talking about working together?

this is not about brokering and mediation with cricket v AFL. this is all about rent seeking and collingwood motive expedience. NB. I AM NOT HAVING A GO AT THIS. this is hard tasked politicking. If he divulges partisan motive, it never gets up. Look how he was on the board of Aths Australia and Collingwood moved into Olympic Park and the Glasshouse or whatever it is called now, Lexus Centre/Westpac Centre. McGuire is a phenomenal asset for a professional sports team and Collingwood should have his value down on the balance sheet in the realm of a 10million dollar asset.

caveat: i actually dont like EM, but truth is, he is damn effective for his footy club. and I have been on record before on the Figbooty about this.

Don't tell anyone about Ed, everyone thinks he's just a know it all big mouth.

 

[blackcat]

Showgrounds (excellent transport system, Flemington parking)
Re do princes park?
Victoria park?
Western oval?
Junction oval?
Or even Elsternwick park?
How about Fawkner Park?

who has been piping up recently on Optus Oval/Princess Park redevelopment? Was it John Elliott again, having another dig at attempting to secure his legacy?

Optus/Princess Park, would require a train line there no? trams can sufficiently service it. Hipsters out in Brunswick prolly not too impressed with sport neither

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Don't tell anyone about Ed, everyone thinks he's just a know it all big mouth.

Eddie, shhhh, between us, does tend to go a bit over the top. Sometimes fine ideas are lost in that.
Whilst the latest stadium replacement idea is not my cup of tea, don't have an issue with the discussion.
That said, when Eddie started on about how this replacement docklands stadium will be a boon and saviour for the weaker clubs, eh how?
Currently the tenants of Etihad have a poor deal? True for some, then surely it's re done when afl takes it over and until then the afl could balance out the difference if feeling inclined.
Unsure how new multi million dollar debt to football benefits the minnows?

 

[Saintly Viewed]

who has been piping up recently on Optus Oval/Princess Park redevelopment? Was it John Elliott again, having another dig at attempting to secure his legacy?

Optus/Princess Park, would require a train line there no? trams can sufficiently service it. Hipsters out in Brunswick prolly not too impressed with sport neither

I'm all for ditching princes park.
The junction oval?
Quite a few cheaper options about if we decide football needs something new

 

[MagpieJoel]

ceteris paribus.

This is a footy forum, got to laugh at people who have to use wordsmithing to try and demonstrate intelligence.

 

[sirlothie]

On that very topic, I was annoyed on Sunday during the VFL practice match, that I (as a member) couldn't get access to the first floor Glasshouse bar. The ground floor cafe was open, but was crowded, and when crowded its difficult to see the game. It was also hot, and I was eyeing off the elevated bar and its sheltered outdoor viewing area overlooking the oval (best place to watch the footy). But it was being used by the Melbourne Food and Wine Festival for a wine tasting function, with a big crowd inside. I could have paid the MFWF entry to access OUR bar, but I didn't on principle. Don't think Pert got that one right.

I think there is a design flaw with the Glasshouse, such a big building and you can't use any of it most of the time except the cafe (unless your going to a function). They should have made use of the side facing the oval with big glass windows and maybe a mini indoor grandstand, 3 or 4 rows of seats. People going to training and VFL games would have really appreciated an elevated viewing position and shelter. I'm not keen on going again because you are so exposed and the view is crap.

 

[sirlothie]

What is a "Collingwood" gameday atmosphere?

VicPark and MCG are chalk n cheese.

Even trying to turn the Ponsford into a Collingwood end hasn't worked as the legends members, as is their right, pick and choose when to come and use their reserved seats.

Envious of Geelong really, look after their own supporters, get a 40K stadium that is 90% GEELONG, and is a sell out almost every week. Would much prefer to have a situation like that for Collingwood.

Leave the G for the big finals and random public holiday blockbusters.

Melbourne doesn't need another generic all purpose large football stadium.

The Collingwood end doesn't work because the ground is so uniform all around, it's hardly different grandstands anymore, it's just 2 (could be argued 1) big one. Half wouldn't know where the Ponsford is and everyone just blends in anyway. At least the MCC has different coloured seats.

 

[jmac70]

On that very topic, I was annoyed on Sunday during the VFL practice match, that I (as a member) couldn't get access to the first floor Glasshouse bar. The ground floor cafe was open, but was crowded, and when crowded its difficult to see the game. It was also hot, and I was eyeing off the elevated bar and its sheltered outdoor viewing area overlooking the oval (best place to watch the footy). But it was being used by the Melbourne Food and Wine Festival for a wine tasting function, with a big crowd inside. I could have paid the MFWF entry to access OUR bar, but I didn't on principle. Don't think Pert got that one right.

I would like to say I am surprised....but I'm not unfortunately.

 

[sirlothie]

Yes John Cain (an MCC member to boot) as premier did what he could to have the grand final at the MCG and not be relocated to an expanded vfl park.
So many fingers so many pies.

The real question after dismissing the latest nonsense (smash Etihad and smash hisense but build the same things again anyway) is where could a new facility be built that caters for 50 k or 60 k?

Showgrounds (excellent transport system, Flemington parking)
Re do princes park?
Victoria park?
Western oval?
Junction oval?
Or even Elsternwick park?
How about Fawkner Park?

Geez I play cricket on Fawkner Park. Never dreamt it would brought up as an AFL venue... It's an enormous piece of land though, 5 ovals and parkland opposite the Alfred, in between St Kilda Rd and Punt Rd, I guess there is worse spots but far from a train.

I think it's a green wedge too.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Geez I play cricket on Fawkner Park. Never dreamt it would brought up as an AFL venue... It's an enormous piece of land though, 5 ovals and parkland opposite the Alfred, in between St Kilda Rd and Punt Rd, I guess there is worse spots but far from a train.

I think it's a green wedge too.

Just chucked it in - amazing green space and very large area

 

[mattys123]

Name change;