Scandal Victorian AFL dominance leads to investigation?

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Teen Wolf

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What is stopping the SA govt or WA govt or whoever from levelling the score and buying hosting rights to preliminary finals for the next 50 years, I'd like to know.
 

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Swanks McSwankserton

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interstate_v_vic_premierships_1982-2020.png

The interstate clubs are only 1 expected premiership down rn, and they used to be 4 up so everything's fine really.
Agree re what others said earlier in that after the 2001-2007 interstate dominance it was inevitable that they'd drop off about the same time and there'd be a victorian dominance 2008-12ish? But just as a bunch finished bottoming out the AFL compromised the drafts, and yeah at Richmond we'd finished drafting all our AAs (except Houli) prior to 2010 (x6 2006-2009) so were mostly set.
 

Coach_Required

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I think a huge part of the recent dominance by Victorian Premiers (largely Hawks and Richmond) has developed due to the timing that GC and GWS came into the comp before these eras and compromised multiple drafts.

When other interstate teams would have been rebuilding and getting top access to the drafts, they were pushed down the pecking order of these two teams.

This is in stark contrast to these two powerhouse clubs who 15 years ago hit the drafts and stocked up on multiple high picks which formed the base of their premiership dominance.

Not only did lacking access to the top talent reduce sides chances to rebuild in a normal fashion, it aided the top sides in staying up the top who had already developed their elite talent and were playing sides that didn’t get that opportunity.

Then on top of that, free agency came into the competition. Of course players who had played in bottom teams all their careers then wanted to go to these top teams which again aided their ongoing cycle of dominance.

Taking nothing away from these teams that have won, they made the most of the timings.

But if those compromised drafts didn’t exist, I don’t believe we would have seen this ongoing cycle of dominance by 2 teams over this period and that is a huge reason for the Victorian dominance.

2011 is a perfect example of this.
Port, Adelaide, Brisbane and Freo made up 4 of the bottom 6 teams (excluding the suns). However with GWS taking a lot of the top talent that draft all those clubs were heavily disadvantaged. A few years later, port lost 2 prelims, Freo loose a GF. Adelaide loose a GF and recently lions loose a prelim.

With 1 or 2 of those top end talents from that draft, would these interstate teams have gone an extra step or two and won? Very possibly and then we wouldn’t be having this discussion.
This is a parody response too right? :tearsofjoy:

GWS entered the comp in 2012, Gold Coast entered the comp in 2011.

Last time Richmond had a pick in the top 10 - 2012 pick 9 for Nick Vlastuin (going by your theory this should have been pick 5), & Pick 6 for Reece Conca in 2010.

Most of our premiership players were late picks, rookie picks or traded players. Our "Stars" such as Martin, Cotchin & Riewoldt all came much earlier than any talk of the expansion team joining the comp so you cant say any team was compromised during that period because if anything check the facts Carlton and Melbourne actually received better picks (compensation) than us when we were so called stocking up on picks.

2017 Premiership team:

Broad pick 67 2015
Rance pick 8 2007
Grimes - Preseason draft not even the national draft 2010
Houli - via Essendon 2011
Astbury pick 35 2009
Vlastuin pick 9 2012
McIntosh pick 31 2012
Cotchin pick 2 2007
Townsend via GWS 2016 (4th round selection)
Lambert pick 46 rookie draft 2014
Martin pick 3 2009
Caddy via Geelong 2016 (2nd round pick)
Butler pick 67 2014
Riewoldt pick 13 2006
Rioli pick 15 2015
Nankervia - via Sydney 2016 (3rd round pick)
Prestia - via Gold Coast 2016 (1st round pick)
Grigg via Carlton 2011 (player swap)
Ellis pick 15 2011
Edwards pick 26 2007
Graham pick 53 2016
Castagna pick 29 rookie draft 2015


Your theory has as many holes in it as swiss cheese. Do your homework before you talk nonsense. LOL

Stocking up on picks which formed the base of our dominance?????? LMAO

Try again, your theory is shithouse.
 
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Coach_Required

Norm Smith Medallist
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That was his point.

And then while they were paying off for you the rebuilding clubs trying to catch up were denied the same opportunities.
No his point is flawed, he is saying most of our premiership side came from that era, that is completely untrue and made up. We weren't stocking up on any picks, utter garbage to say we were. In fact we were actually hit harder than most by being down the bottom during that time and having to watch Melbourne & Carlton receive picks they weren't entitled too. Not Richmond's fault we picked smartly on just a handful of players.
 

estibador

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No his point is flawed, he is saying most of our premiership side came from that era, that is completely untrue and made up.
He said the base.

It's hard to argue that Martin, Cotchin and Riewoldt weren't a significant part of your premiership success. And then the good timing of FA coming in while you were at the top getting you Lynch too.
 

Coach_Required

Norm Smith Medallist
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He said the base.

It's hard to argue that Martin, Cotchin and Riewoldt weren't a significant part of your premiership success. And then the good timing of FA coming in while you were at the top getting you Lynch too.
He said "stocked up on multiple high picks which formed the base" we did no such thing stocking up on multiple picks.

In regards to Lynch, why didnt you also mention Prestia or Caddy? they came to us when we were 13th, but I guess that doesnt fit the narrative though does it?
 
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theyellowsash

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2007 to 2020 non Victorians have won 2 of 14.
both are extremely low chances, but the 8 of 10 non vic clubs won is statistically less likely than the 12 of 14 vic clubs won. the 8 of 10 was a 0.015% statistical chance, and the 12 of 14 a 0.028% statistical chance. That makes the interstate dominance for 10 years more significant as it is statistically half as likely to happen.

fwiw, i dont think theres an issue. it ebbs and flows, but overall the average vic/non vic premiers is statistically where it should be.
 

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puppy_dog7

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2007 to 2020 non Victorians have won 2 of 14.
2001- Brisbane Premiers
2002 - Brisbane Premiers
2003 - Brisbane Premiers
2004 - Port Premiers Brisbane GF
2005 - Sydney Premiers West Coast GF
2006 - West Coast Premiers Sydney GF
2007 - Port GF
2008 - none
2009 - none
2010 - none
2011 - none
2012 - Sydney premiers
2013 - Freo GF
2014 - Sydney GF
2015 - West Coast GF
2016 - Sydney GF
2017 - Adelaide GF
2018 - West Coast Premiers
2019 - GWS GF
2020 - None

so if you take out last year and a 4 year stretch from 08-11 there has been an Interstate team in every other Grand Final for the last 20 years.

Hardly anything to be concerned about. Gold Coast also literally the only team in the last 20 years not to make a GF from Interstate, whereas all of Melb, North, Essendon and Carlton haven’t played in one at all.
 

WillHayward

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This is a parody response too right? :tearsofjoy:

GWS entered the comp in 2012, Gold Coast entered the comp in 2011.

Last time Richmond had a pick in the top 10 - 2012 pick 9 for Nick Vlastuin, & Pick 6 for Reece Conca in 2010.

Most of our premiership players were late picks, rookie picks or traded players. Our "Stars" such as Martin, Cotchin & Riewoldt all came much earlier than any talk of the expansion team joining the comp so you cant say any team was compromised during that period because if anything check the facts Carlton and Melbourne actually received better picks (compensation) than us when we were so called stocking up on picks.

Your theory has as many holes in it as swiss cheese. Do your homework before you talk nonsense. LOL

Stock pilling picks which formed the base of our dominance? LMAO

Try again, your theory is shithouse.
Pretty ironic.
You diss the theory that you have obviously misunderstood.
The theory is you got talent in the door just BEFORE the expansion teams came in.
When the expansion teams came in they watered down the talent for everyone else.
Melbourne and Carlton are irrelevant.
The point is whoever was able to get I. Good talent just before the expansion teams would get an advantage down the track because the competition was watered down.

It's a totally viable and reasonable hypothesis.

Also no reason why you'd be salty about it.
You still needed to do everything right to capitalise.

But it does explain why the Hawks and Tiges manages to win flags in bunches of three.

I dare say we won't see any team win in a bunch of three anytime soon.
 

Coach_Required

Norm Smith Medallist
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Pretty ironic.
You diss the theory that you have obviously misunderstood.
The theory is you got talent in the door just BEFORE the expansion teams came in.
When the expansion teams came in they watered down the talent for everyone else.
Melbourne and Carlton are irrelevant.
The point is whoever was able to get I. Good talent just before the expansion teams would get an advantage down the track because the competition was watered down.

It's a totally viable and reasonable hypothesis.

Also no reason why you'd be salty about it.
You still needed to do everything right to capitalise.

But it does explain why the Hawks and Tiges manages to win flags in bunches of three.

I dare say we won't see any team win in a bunch of three anytime soon.
The reason i take angst against his post is because its wrong, i have listed the players that made up our 2017 premiership side in my original post, he said we stocked up on picks that lead to our dominance, that is stretching the truth. Its totally untrue and said just to make his argument sound valid. You cant actually even include Rance in this theory because he only played in 1 of our 3 flags. 1 flag isn't dominance.
 

WillHayward

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The reason i take angst against his post is because its wrong, i have listed the players that made up our 2017 premiership side in my original post, he said we stocked up on picks that lead to our dominance, that is stretching the truth. Its totally untrue and said just to make his argument sound valid. You cant actually even include Rance in this theory because he only played in 1 of our 3 flags. 1 flag isn't dominance.
Martin Cotchin Edwards Riewoldt.
You had a nice young core just when the expansion teams .
Doesn't mean U still didn't do great with later picks.
The point is no club got enough charity picks to catch you besides GWS who were given a zillion first round picks.
And look how that panned out!
 

Coach_Required

Norm Smith Medallist
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Martin Cotchin Edwards Riewoldt.
You had a nice young core just when the expansion teams .
Doesn't mean U still didn't do great with later picks.
The point is no club got enough charity picks to catch you besides GWS who were given a zillion first round picks.
And look how that panned out!
Riewoldt was pick 13 .. so now we are just including any 1st round pick? lol

Most of our young core came about once the expansion teams were already here.

You cant say Hawthorn and Richmond were the only teams that benefited from expansion sides during that time, your mob was doing pretty well when hawthorn were up and about and you had a very similar age demograhic at the time, the dogs who won in 2016 had a strong list that you could also say contained so called benefits from the expansion sides just because they didnt go on to win 3 flags doesnt mean only Hawthorn & Richmond benefited. How did the dogs get Macrae? go look it up.

There were other factors that led to both the hawks and Richmond winning 3 flags but hey lets just say it was because of expansion teams, utter crap.
 

WillHayward

Norm Smith Medallist
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Riewoldt was pick 13 .. so now we are just including any 1st round pick? lol

Most of our young core came about once the expansion teams were already here.

You cant say Hawthorn and Richmond were the only teams that benefited from expansion sides during that time, your mob was doing pretty well when hawthorn were up and about and you had a very similar age demograhic at the time, the dogs who won in 2016 had a strong list that you could also say contain benefits from the expansion sides just because they didnt go on to win 3 flags doesnt mean only Hawthorn & Richmond benefited. How did the dogs get Macrae? go look it up.

There were other factors that led to both the hawks and Richmond winning 3 flags but hey lets just say it was because of expansion teams, utter crap.
The pick number is irrelevant.
I seriously think U have missed the point.
The point is U had some good young players around 2009.
And it then got harder for other clubs to find enough good players during the expansion era.
That's it
That's the whole theory.
It's undeniable.
Also doesn't cheapen your flags in any way.
As you said Melbourne and Carlton had these opportunities but blew them.
 

Coach_Required

Norm Smith Medallist
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The pick number is irrelevant.
I seriously think U have missed the point.
The point is U had some good young players around 2009.
And it then got harder for other clubs to find enough good players during the expansion era.
That's it
That's the whole theory.
It's undeniable.
Also doesn't cheapen your flags in any way.
As you said Melbourne and Carlton had these opportunities but blew them.
I wont argue anymore I get his point and yours but i just take exception to the fact he said we stocked up on picks before they came into the comp. That is wrong.
 

Coach_Required

Norm Smith Medallist
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There haven't been a non-Victorian Grand Final since that 2006 West Coast-Sydney epic.
It was only epic because your team played in it and it was a close game. In the history of Grand finals it was too low scoring to be epic.

Give me a 2018 West Coast v Collingwood GF over 2005 & 2006 any day.
 

WillHayward

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I wont argue anymore I get his point and yours but i just take exception to the fact he said we stocked up on picks before they came into the comp. That is wrong.
Yep fair enough.
Better to say you had "good players" at the right time just before expansion.
But ur picks were nothing special.
Lost count how many top 10 picks Carlton have had.
 

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