Victorian club relocation to Tasmania.

[MaddAdam]

Where would you like this thread.... relocated?

Also, the existence of this thread is yet another compelling argument as to why I should be made a main board mod.

 

[Chief]

Also, the existence of this thread is yet another compelling argument as to why I should be made a main board mod.

That argument does not even exist in our time-space continuum.

 

[LoungeLizard]

You want a fight?

Let's do this;

Population of Tasmania is projected to be 520,630 by June this year.

http://www.population.net.au/population-of-tasmania/

Population of Western Sydney is 2.2 million. (Western Sydney makes up nearly 10% of the entire country's population!)

https://blog.id.com.au/2015/populat...s/western-sydney-diverse-and-growing-rapidly/

Now, it is absolutely no secret that there isn't an affinity with AFL in the forefront of the population at the moment but surely the below facts will help change your mind;

In our first year, 2012, Auskick participation increased nearly 10%;

View attachment 484727

http://aflnswact.com.au/participation-numbers-boom/

At the end of 2017 we are STILL growing our Auskick rates at double digit growth;

View attachment 484729

http://aflnswact.com.au/participation-numbers-2017/

With the stagnant and rapidly increasing ageing population of Tasmania, can you please tell me where you will find double digit growth in the playing of AFL at a junior level, the very level where the "hearts and minds" of future members, supporters and potential draftees begins?

Speaking of members, GWS entered the competition in 2012 with 10,241 members, increasing year on year to our current tally of 20,185;

https://membership.gwsgiants.com.au/

View attachment 484733

The more kids you have playing the game, the more they want to go to a game. The more games they attend, the more memberships you sell. The older these kids get, and when they become adults, they then take their kids along to the games, and then you get the foundations that a club can get to the point where we will have 40-50,000 members. In my industry, this is what we call "critical mass"

However, 40-50,000 members I think is low-balling our potential as a club. If we can continue to keep engaging with the community, doing all of our school visits, maintain double digit growth at an Auskick level (I know that is much easier said than done, so I'll be happy with double digits for the next 5 years, and then maintain about 5-8% growth after that) along with all the tireless work the AFL are doing at a government level - installing infrastructure for local councils, getting ovals built, putting up four posts, not 2, I think we can get 5% of the population to join us as members, which, by 2040, would mean we would have 200,000 members!

GWS Giants expansion a failure?

The only fail is it took you Vics so bloody long to give us a god-damned team.

So funny, you are blaming the Vics for taking so long.

How about blaming the people of NSW for taking so long to realise Aussie Rules footy rules.

 

[Aussie_boy]

Surely the Kangas playing 6 games a season down in Hobart would suffice.

 

[betchsta]

Would it be feasible for a Victorian club to relocate to Tasmania to create a team in either Hobart or Launceston? Will probably get mixed opinions about this and I’m happy to take whatever comes my way but I honestly think St.Kilda or a North Melbourne move down south could be a great idea for two clubs that are ranked lowly in terms of other big Victorian clubs, Hobart Saints or Launceston Kangaroos could be an idea as well, all would agree that Tasmania deserves its own AFL football club.
Personally I believe the AFL should abandon the Gold Coast project and deliver a team from that to Tasmania as the Suns don’t have members to compete with the elite and I can’t seriously see them competing heavily in ten years time.
Keep in mind this is all hypotheticals and I’d love for every Victorian club to be kept where they are but it could be a great move for North Melbourne and St. Kilda respectively.
With respect to both sets of supporters.
What do you guys think?

I like the sound of the Tassie Tigers.

Probably wouldn't be such a bad thing after what the neutral's have had to endure since you won the flag last year.

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

So funny, you are blaming the Vics for taking so long.

How about blaming the people of NSW for taking so long to realise Aussie Rules footy rules.

In fact it's been in NSW since the very early days, so that isn't true. If there's no team in the premier comp it's hardly surprising it stagnated. The Newcastle Black Diamond League is the oldest outside Vic and reflects the early spread of the game though miners relocating. Thete's always been a presence of Aussie rules footy in NSW.
Simplistic superficial arguments are the low hanging fruit though, so inevitably they'll be used.

 

[Mofra]

The Hobart-Launceston rivalry makes any combined Tassie team a very difficult proposition in practice.

Not to mention whichever Vic club relocated would lose a very large proportion of their members and sponsorship who would be unlikely to simply start following another team. There would be a net loss of revenue for the AFL who are about money, reputation, money, their executive jobs etc with 'the game' a consideration well down the list.

The one proposal that could be considered - a GCS relocation after a few more years of gaining little to no traction on that wasteland that is the Gold Coast sporting landscape.

 

[LoungeLizard]

In fact it's been in NSW since the very early days, so that isn't true. If there's no team in the premier comp it's hardly surprising it stagnated. The Newcastle Black Diamond League is the oldest outside Vic and reflects the early spread of the game though miners relocating. Thete's always been a presence of Aussie rules footy in NSW.
Simplistic superficial arguments are the low hanging fruit though, so inevitably they'll be used.

You do know that the 1st team outside of Vic was a Sydney side.

But it's ok, just blame the Vics for taking so long.

 

[Snookers]

So funny, you are blaming the Vics for taking so long.

How about blaming the people of NSW for taking so long to realise Aussie Rules footy rules.

The VFL never once tried to make an impact in the area.

 

[LoungeLizard]

The VFL never once tried to make an impact in the area.

Why is it the VFL's job to make an impact in Sydney?

Look at the post above, the 1st team outside of Vic was a Sydney side.

Now explain to me how "the Vics took too long"

 

[Snookers]

Why is it the VFL's job to make an impact in Sydney?

Look at the post above, the 1st team outside of Vic was a Eastern Sydney side.

Now explain to me how "the Vics took too long"

EFA.

Learn geography.

 

[CheapCharlie]

The Hobart-Launceston rivalry makes any combined Tassie team a very difficult proposition in practice.

Not to mention whichever Vic club relocated would lose a very large proportion of their members and sponsorship who would be unlikely to simply start following another team. There would be a net loss of revenue for the AFL who are about money, reputation, money, their executive jobs etc with 'the game' a consideration well down the list.

The one proposal that could be considered - a GCS relocation after a few more years of gaining little to no traction on that wasteland that is the Gold Coast sporting landscape.

The Gold Coast is going to do more than Okay with support in the coming years
Its a massively growing population area and it just takes a long term perspective and vision to see it through

 

[LoungeLizard]

EFA.

Learn geography.

So you can't answer a simple question then.

You might need to learn geography yourself, Victoria is not NSW, the VFL is a Victorian league.

You said the "VFL" did nothing, neither did the WAFL, neither did the SANFL, you know why, it's because they are "state" comps.

The 1st team outside of Vic was a Sydney side, so when the Vics decided to expand, NSW was 1st.

Now we come to blaming the Vics for their failure, who paid for the entry of GWS, how come NSW don't foot the money that's spent on them.

No, let's just blame the Vics, when it was the so called Vics who decided to make a 2nd side in NSW, not NSW deciding, so maybe it's NSW who are the failure here as they can't think for themselves.

 

[Mofra]

The Gold Coast is going to do more than Okay with support in the coming years
Its a massively growing population area and it just takes a long term perspective and vision to see it through

That's been said more than a number of times, but teams have failed there before.

The Gold Coast is not actually a city which makes it hard - it's more a series of adjacent town centres and AFL is behind League, Union, Soccer, Surfing and SLS for attention and participation.

 

[Roylion]

If it was a relocated Victorian side, they’d still play 5-7 games in Victoria. It’s hardly analogous to a supporter of a QLD, NSW, SA or WA fan who may not see their team each year, if they live outside their teams state (and Victoria).

If you want to predict what might happen to the supporter base of a "relocated" Victorian side to Tasmania, all you need to do is look at the South Melbourne - Sydney experience or the Fitzroy - Brisbane Lions experience.

The closer the links a relocated Victorian side has to the identity of the original club obviously the more supporters it will retain in the original city, whatever the numbers of games it plays there. There's a reason why Sydney has far more members in Melbourne than the Brisbane Lions do.

If North were to relocate to Tasmania (and I doubt that is ever going to happen) it could reasonably be expected to retain somewhere between 10,000 - 15,000 members of it's current 40,000+ membership numbers. And that's only if the identity of the Tasmanian Kangaroos was fairly closely aligned to the identity of the North Melbourne football club.

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

The Hobart-Launceston rivalry makes any combined Tassie team a very difficult proposition in practice.

Not to mention whichever Vic club relocated would lose a very large proportion of their members and sponsorship who would be unlikely to simply start following another team. There would be a net loss of revenue for the AFL who are about money, reputation, money, their executive jobs etc with 'the game' a consideration well down the list.

The one proposal that could be considered - a GCS relocation after a few more years of gaining little to no traction on that wasteland that is the Gold Coast sporting landscape.

What exactly would be the criteria for gaining little or no traction?
Success on the field does matter but it's peripheral. The Suns actually had a strong local comp at startup, at least compared to ours, and the AFL licence is a great opportunity to grow it.
I'm not sure of their strategy but I expect it's at least somewhat similar to ours. Playing the long game, because it's the way to achieve long term success, and because they can.
In those circumstances arbitrarily imposing short term measures would very unfair.

 

[Mofra]

What exactly would be the criteria for gaining little or no traction?
Success on the field does matter but it's peripheral. The Suns actually had a strong local comp at startup, at least compared to ours, and the AFL licence is a great opportunity to grow it.
I'm not sure of their strategy but I expect it's at least somewhat similar to ours. Playing the long game, because it's the way to achieve long term success, and because they can.
In those circumstances arbitrarily imposing short term measures would very unfair.

By most measures the differences between the Giants and the Suns is pretty stark - even ignoring the on field differences.
GWS membership in 2017 was close to double GCS and appears to be growing faster year on year (e.g. 36.8% growth for GWS, a 9.3% fall for GCS).
As per conversations with the head of a rival code, Western Sydney actually has a growing number of ovals for AFL participation at junior and amateur ranks, they're reducing throughout the Gold Coast region (the AFL annual report actually includes "NSW Northern Rivers" under the Queensland participation figures to skew perception).

Given the GWS is set for a period of on field success and GCS are rebuilding again the flow on effects for membership, sponsorship, participation etc tend to be heavily influenced by this so GCS, in a region where teams have tried and failed before, look set to be following a hard road.

 

[Pessimistic]

It’s be funny if a tassie team got more fans turn at away games in Melbourne

 

[Snookers]

So you can't answer a simple question then.

You might need to learn geography yourself, Victoria is not NSW, the VFL is a Victorian league.

You said the "VFL" did nothing, neither did the WAFL, neither did the SANFL, you know why, it's because they are "state" comps.

The 1st team outside of Vic was a EASTERN Sydney side, so when the Vics decided to expand, NSW was 1st.

Now we come to blaming the Vics for their failure, who paid for the entry of GWS, how come NSW don't foot the money that's spent on them.

No, let's just blame the Vics, when it was the so called Vics who decided to make a 2nd side in NSW, not NSW deciding, so maybe it's NSW who are the failure here as they can't think for themselves.

No, I did answer the question. You just did not like the answer, and you still get it wrong, hence why I had to edit your post, again.

And I'm fairly certain that all 16 clubs voted for our inception, not just the Victorian ones.

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

By most measures the differences between the Giants and the Suns is pretty stark - even ignoring the on field differences.
GWS membership in 2017 was close to double GCS and appears to be growing faster year on year (e.g. 36.8% growth for GWS, a 9.3% fall for GCS).
As per conversations with the head of a rival code, Western Sydney actually has a growing number of ovals for AFL participation at junior and amateur ranks, they're reducing throughout the Gold Coast region (the AFL annual report actually includes "NSW Northern Rivers" under the Queensland participation figures to skew perception).

Given the GWS is set for a period of on field success and GCS are rebuilding again the flow on effects for membership, sponsorship, participation etc tend to be heavily influenced by this so GCS, in a region where teams have tried and failed before, look set to be following a hard road.

I agree it's a worry if GC aren't growing the juniors in their region, and the senior local comps. It's all part of the sinking roots into the community thing.
One word of caution with member numbers is the bandwagon factor and that we have a lot if limited game memberships. Inevitably with 8 home games at Spotless and three at Manuka. I think we're where we expected to be at this point though, maybe a bit ahead with some on field success. Long way to go though.

I think you've got to give GC a decade from now at least before any review, and that's what it's likely the AFL admin will give them.

 

[LoungeLizard]

No, I did answer the question. You just did not like the answer, and you still get it wrong, hence why I had to edit your post, again.

And I'm fairly certain that all 16 clubs voted for our inception, not just the Victorian ones.

You didn't answer squat, i'll ask again: why is it the VFL's job to make an impact in Sydney?

I'll help you out a bit, the VFL is a state league.

The AFL is the national league.

Now if you are talking the old VFL who became the AFL, then you might want to see who they are and were led by, you might find they aren't all Vics.

Further more, why are you blaming Vics who have had a major footy league for well over a century for the lack in NSW?

Another question asked which you failed to answer is: Why is GWS not funded by NSW?

 

[Snookers]

You didn't answer squat, i'll ask again: why is it the VFL's job to make an impact in Sydney?

I'll help you out a bit, the VFL is a state league.

The AFL is the national league.

Now if you are talking the old VFL who became the AFL, then you might want to see who they are and were led by, you might find they aren't all Vics.

Further more, why are you blaming Vics who have had a major footy league for well over a century for the lack in NSW?

Another question asked which you failed to answer is: Why is GWS not funded by NSW?

Because the Swans were transported here when it was the VFL, pretty easy to figure that one out for most people with a semblance of 'grey matter' in their scone.

GWS is on its way to becoming self-funded, and let's not kid ourselves, we're certainly not the only club that relies on the AFL for funding, but I tell you one thing, we most definitely will not be like long-standing Vic clubs that are heavily reliant on that sweet, sweet, AFL money such as the Western Bulldogs and St Kilda who were given $17.5 million and $18.5 million respectively in 2016.

What is their excuse for being around the league for decades upon decades and not being able to fund themselves? Feel like taking a shot at them? Nah, probably not. Vics looking out for Vics and all that.

 

[Mofra]

I agree it's a worry if GC aren't growing the juniors in their region, and the senior local comps. It's all part of the sinking roots into the community thing.
One word of caution with member numbers is the bandwagon factor and that we have a lot if limited game memberships. Inevitably with 8 home games at Spotless and three at Manuka. I think we're where we expected to be at this point though, maybe a bit ahead with some on field success. Long way to go though.

I think you've got to give GC a decade from now at least before any review, and that's what it's likely the AFL admin will give them.

Fair points - no doubt AFL House would have had a long timeframe for establishment - perhaps in the order of a couple of decades with benchmarks along the way.
Some rumours suggest GCS is tracking below those benchmarks but it will be interesting to see what happens in another 5 years if all round performance remains poor.

 

[LoungeLizard]

Because the Swans were transported here when it was the VFL, pretty easy to figure that one out for most people with a semblance of 'grey matter' in their scone.

GWS is on its way to becoming self-funded, and let's not kid ourselves, we're certainly not the only club that relies on the AFL for funding, but I tell you one thing, we most definitely will not be like long-standing Vic clubs that are heavily reliant on that sweet, sweet, AFL money such as the Western Bulldogs and St Kilda who were given $17.5 million and $18.5 million respectively in 2016.

What is their excuse for being around the league for decades upon decades and not being able to fund themselves? Feel like taking a shot at them? Nah, probably not. Vics looking out for Vics and all that.

I'm not the one saying "it's the Vics fault" though am i?

You are essentially saying that GWS is a Vic side located in Sydney.

 

[Snookers]

I'm not the one saying "it's the Vics fault" though am i?

You are essentially saying that GWS is a Vic side located in Sydney.

Well it was the Vics that put a team in Eastern Sydney...without doing anything to develop the West...