Victorian club relocation to Tasmania.

[madmug]

Public transport was planned for but not delivered.



And it would have worked if the Government hadnt threatened to legiislate where the Grand Final HAD to be held. Seriously, read up on the events leading up to the 1988 stadium deal signing.



https://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/t...s/news-story/2c031a2774cc7e2353cf3857f3985723

Their are, as usual, two sides to the argument. The economics were dubious. People always complained about the parking & access & 'arctic park' conditions. How popular with the corporates was it then?

The redevelopment of the Southern stand at the MCG was deemed necessary. which gave the VFL an out to the big white elephant at Waverley.

Austadiums point out its deficiencies. As does the article Waverley Park on Wikipedia. So maybe blaming the Government takes the original dream world the VFL lived in away from their responsibility. The VFL/AFL have a history of political intrigue & behavior.

So seriously, read up on the big VFL dreams & the dubious nature of the problem their imagination created for them. The Government saved the VFL arse. Pretty obvious if one takes the 'VFL' coloured glasses off.

 

[The_Wookie]

Their are, as usual, two sides to the argument. The economics were dubious. People always complained about the parking & access & 'arctic park' conditions. How popular with the corporates was it then?

None of these were reasons why it failed to work. It had these conditions for 26 years before it closed down. And corporates would have been better accommodated if they had been allowed to expand. After 1984, there was no point, it was clear that the Government would not support any improvement to the stadium.

The redevelopment of the Southern stand at the MCG was deemed necessary. which gave the VFL an out to the big white elephant at Waverley.

That was only discovered after the Vic Gov nuked the VFLs planned expansion and moving of the Grand Final.

Austadiums point out its deficiencies. As does the article Waverley Park on Wikipedia. So maybe blaming the Government takes the original dream world the VFL lived in away from their responsibility. The VFL/AFL have a history of political intrigue & behavior.

No doubt, but the Government was absolutely to blame for the lack of development from 1981 onwards.

So seriously, read up on the big VFL dreams & the dubious nature of the problem their imagination created for them. The Government saved the VFL arse. Pretty obvious if one takes the 'VFL' coloured glasses off.

And its pretty obvious you keep moving the goal posts. Again. Its flat out obvious that Cain and the Vic Government killed the VFLs plans for Waverly Park.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Their are, as usual, two sides to the argument. The economics were dubious. People always complained about the parking & access & 'arctic park' conditions. How popular with the corporates was it then?

The redevelopment of the Southern stand at the MCG was deemed necessary. which gave the VFL an out to the big white elephant at Waverley.

Austadiums point out its deficiencies. As does the article Waverley Park on Wikipedia. So maybe blaming the Government takes the original dream world the VFL lived in away from their responsibility. The VFL/AFL have a history of political intrigue & behavior.

So seriously, read up on the big VFL dreams & the dubious nature of the problem their imagination created for them. The Government saved the VFL arse. Pretty obvious if one takes the 'VFL' coloured glasses off.

You're looking at the symptom on this one dude, not the cause

Yes the vfl/AFL spent five fifths of * all on updating and maintaining the stadium, but that was because they didn't want to go all in without proper transport

When the train spur was finally killed 100%, that's when the pursuit of an alternate started

Waverley without rail was always problematic. The buses were a joke, and lack of gates at the car park made getting out of the games a nightmare . I liked the joint, and didn't want to see it die, but at a minimum it needed a light rail link connecting it to the dandy line

 

[madmug]

None of these were reasons why it failed to work. It had these conditions for 26 years before it closed down. And corporates would have been better accommodated if they had been allowed to expand. After 1984, there was no point, it was clear that the Government would not support any improvement to the stadium.



That was only discovered after the Vic Gov nuked the VFLs planned expansion and moving of the Grand Final.



No doubt, but the Government was absolutely to blame for the lack of development from 1981 onwards.



And its pretty obvious you keep moving the goal posts. Again. Its flat out obvious that Cain and the Vic Government killed the VFLs plans for Waverly Park.

So the whole plan was to get government to pay for it? Well clearly they had more brains than the VFL about it. Cain probably saved the league from going bust over such a stupid plan.

I'm not moving any goal posts. You just have a narrow VFLcentric view.

 

[madmug]

You're looking at the symptom on this one dude, not the cause

Yes the vfl/AFL spent five fifths of **** all on updating and maintaining the stadium, but that was because they didn't want to go all in without proper transport

When the train spur was finally killed 100%, that's when the pursuit of an alternate started

Waverley without rail was always problematic. The buses were a joke, and lack of gates at the car park made getting out of the games a nightmare . I liked the joint, and didn't want to see it die, but at a minimum it needed a light rail link connecting it to the dandy line

To base a multi $million stadium in an area without the necessary infrastructure was idiotic, pie in the sky.

So to blame the fact a single train station, which still needed buses to get from their to the stadium & back, is plain silly. How could just one station make a 150k stadium work? Think about it.

I deal with strategic planners all the time. Clearly some brainwashed VFL/AFL people cant see the reality.

Cain did the VFL/AFL a huge favour. That much is obvious.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

To base a multi $million stadium in an area without the necessary infrastructure was idiotic, pie in the sky.

So to blame the fact a single train station, which still needed buses to get from their to the stadium & back, is plain silly. How could just one station make a 150k stadium work? Think about it.

I deal with strategic planners all the time. Clearly some brainwashed VFL/AFL people cant see the reality.

Cain did the VFL/AFL a huge favour. That much is obvious.

You're missing the original plan

There were NO BUSES

A train line was to go up Wellington road and join the existing rail line. Similar to what happens at Flemington racecourse

If you look at Wellington road is has the mother of all median strips because this was not just a thought bubble

The local was picked because the demographic centre of Melbourne was moving here (which did happen). The vision was the stadium would be central to where people live "tomorrow", and was actually correct

Without public transport access however, it's all for nought

 

[The_Wookie]

So the whole plan was to get government to pay for it? Well clearly they had more brains than the VFL about it. Cain probably saved the league from going bust over such a stupid plan.

I'm not moving any goal posts. You just have a narrow VFLcentric view.

Sure Im the one with the narrow view here. Look in a mirror.

 

[madmug]

Sure Im the one with the narrow view here. Look in a mirror.

You say I move the goal posts? I merely pointed out information you hadn't.

You need to look up Myopic.

 

[madmug]

You're missing the original plan

There were NO BUSES

A train line was to go up Wellington road and join the existing rail line. Similar to what happens at Flemington racecourse

If you look at Wellington road is has the mother of all median strips because this was not just a thought bubble

The local was picked because the demographic centre of Melbourne was moving here (which did happen). The vision was the stadium would be central to where people live "tomorrow", and was actually correct

Without public transport access however, it's all for nought

Yes geographic centre, not a transport centre. The point being the VFL should have waited for the infrastructure to arrive before investing huge sums in a thought bubble. Also, again, how could 1 station cope with the sorts of crowds they looked to build the stadium for?

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Yes geographic centre, not a transport centre. The point being the VFL should have waited for the infrastructure to arrive before investing huge sums in a thought bubble. Also, again, how could 1 station cope with the sorts of crowds they looked to build the stadium for?

You mean like how only on station caters for the Perth stadium?

Or one station caters for Homebush?

Or one station caters for docklands?

Or one station caters for Flemington, which has larger crowds in attendance than the gf?

 

[The_Wookie]

You mean like how only on station caters for the Perth stadium?

Or one station caters for Homebush?

Or one station caters for docklands?

Or one station caters for Flemington, which has larger crowds in attendance than the gf?

No station catered for Football Park in Adelaide up until the move to Adelaide Oval in 2014 (no freeway either). It was built at the same time Waverly Park was and well away from the geographic centre of Adelaide. They did build an impressive Bus station there about 5 years before the move.

 

[The_Wookie]

You say I move the goal posts? I merely pointed out information you hadn't.

You need to look up Myopic.

You're using the information to suggest things that are somewhat untrue

Waverly Park wasnt a white elephant for one. It was used regularly for 26 years before closing. The Victorian Government prevented it from being used to its full potential through various means, but it was never a white elephant.

 

[madmug]

You mean like how only on station caters for the Perth stadium?

Or one station caters for Homebush?

Or one station caters for docklands?

Or one station caters for Flemington, which has larger crowds in attendance than the gf?

Homebush was the closest area to Sydney CBS they could build such facilities for the Olympics. But they had that plan well in place as part of the build. NOT build a 150k stadium & hope someone else does something to help, at their expense.

I'm no expert on Perth stadium but its for 60k, not 150k.

Docklands? Geez its next to a huge station for local & intra state lines. And close to the city with all its access.

Flemington, sure. It was built in 1840. Some 10 years before any rail in Melbourne, well before cars even. So????

Keep them coming but, its not the same as building a huge thing like VFL Park was planned to be, without suitable access being in place or a certainty.

A bad error by the VFL & saved from economic ruin by Cain.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Homebush was the closest area to Sydney CBS they could build such facilities for the Olympics. But they had that plan well in place as part of the build. NOT build a 150k stadium & hope someone else does something to help, at their expense.

I'm no expert on Perth stadium but its for 60k, not 150k.

Docklands? Geez its next to a huge station for local & intra state lines. And close to the city with all its access.

Flemington, sure. It was built in 1840. Some 10 years before any rail in Melbourne, well before cars even. So????

Keep them coming but, its not the same as building a huge thing like VFL Park was planned to be, without suitable access being in place or a certainty.

A bad error by the VFL & saved from economic ruin by Cain.

Please explain how Flemington is a public transport fail

If a rail spur to Waverley was nuts, surely Flemington must be a disaster now

 

[madmug]

You're using the information to suggest things that are somewhat untrue

Waverly Park wasnt a white elephant for one. It was used regularly for 26 years before closing. The Victorian Government prevented it from being used to its full potential through various means, but it was never a white elephant.

Also it was never finished. It may well have been a financial blackhole the VFL were digging for themselves. Thankfully they never had to find out.

 

[madmug]

Please explain how Flemington is a public transport fail

If a rail spur to Waverley was nuts, surely Flemington must be a disaster now

Who said a rail spur was nuts?

Read what I said. To build something WITHOUT the necessary infrastructure in place was foolhardy at best.

Flemington was built before populations & infrastructure was a necessary consideration. Waverley wasn't.

But keep attacking.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Who said a rail spur was nuts?

Read what I said. To build something WITHOUT the necessary infrastructure in place was foolhardy at best.

Flemington was built before populations & infrastructure was a necessary consideration. Waverley wasn't.

But keep attacking.

You said having a ground supported by only one station was nuts. Flemington is only supported by one. It seems to work, so why would have this one failed?

Also this line wasn't hoped for. The Bolte govt said it was gunna happen, and as I already said, land was set aside for it. That was in the 60's however, and before the oil shock (Waverley was built during this time)

Fwiw govt is now planning a tram line from Caulfield to Chadstone to Monash uni to Rowville, a big chunk on the land set aside for the Waverley spur

 

[JohnZ]

Fwiw govt is now planning a tram line from Caulfield to Chadstone to Monash uni to Rowville, a big chunk on the land set aside for the Waverley spur

Rumour has it that as part of the concession that the Feds don't get the Airport rail via Marribynong (instead Airport via Regional Rail Link / Sunshine) is that Rowville will be a rail spur and not light rail.

 

[madmug]

You said having a ground supported by only one station was nuts. Flemington is only supported by one. It seems to work, so why would have this one failed?

Also this line wasn't hoped for. The Bolte govt said it was gunna happen, and as I already said, land was set aside for it. That was in the 60's however, and before the oil shock (Waverley was built during this time)

Fwiw govt is now planning a tram line from Caulfield to Chadstone to Monash uni to Rowville, a big chunk on the land set aside for the Waverley spur

I believe I said one station for a 150k stadium. Certainly one not built. Also flemington is easier to get to for most people than Waverley was.

Flemington was built in 1840. They couldn't plan a station or two before the railway even existed. Could they.

I didn't think what I said was that hard to follow.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

I believe I said one station for a 150k stadium. Certainly one not built. Also flemington is easier to get to for most people than Waverley was.

Flemington was built in 1840. They couldn't plan a station or two before the railway even existed. Could they.

I didn't think what I said was that hard to follow.

Flemington can host just under 150k, so number is the same

How is it easier to get to? If one on rail line, same as Waverley would have been. And it's accessible by an area full of road bottlenecks, worse than Waverley . Do you think average people take the choppers and ferrys to Flemington?

 

[TJASTA]

Relocated those University campaigners

 

[madmug]

Flemington can host just under 150k, so number is the same

How is it easier to get to? If one on rail line, same as Waverley would have been. And it's accessible by an area full of road bottlenecks, worse than Waverley . Do you think average people take the choppers and ferrys to Flemington?

Having been to both I thought getting stuck in traffic getting to VFL Park in 1991 with a crowd of 77k & 2hrs to get out of the place was a dam sight harder than the trips to Flemington I had. Even club games at Waverley were a pain to get away from.

Anyway.

 

[The_Wookie]

With announcements on Tasmanian football coming today and tomorrow, Im redirecting all current threads to one for ease of discussion and moderation, please refer to
https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/tassie-football-in-crisis-again.1186163