Victorian Covid Outbreak 2021

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Stocks_go_Up said:
No I'm just laughing at the sheep on social media celebrating the end of the lockdown and how great a job everyone did - meanwhile deaths and cases are at an all time high... So protestors got shot with rubber bullets, people lost their jobs, businesses got shot down, citizens were banned from coming home, people were locked inside and what we have to show for it is the highest ever number of cases and deaths... Seems kind of strange... Would be interested to see how much worse things would be without the vaccine - IMO it wouldn't be that big a difference in terms of cases and deaths - definitely not enough to justify the actions of the police state/tyranical government.
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Compare the number of cases/deaths in Victoria's second wave last year, vs the current wave, and get back to me about how much different it would be without a vaccine.
 
HTT said:
Compare the number of cases/deaths in Victoria's second wave last year, vs the current wave, and get back to me about how much different it would be without a vaccine.
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Isn't it logical the weakest people will die first - go look at NYC death rate at the start of this whole thing. There is NO reason deaths and cases should be going up and to the highest levels ever after 70%+ of the population has been vaccinated. Your telling me the 10% holdouts who aren't getting vaccinated are the reason instead of accepting the fact the 'vaccines' don't actually work as well as we were promised. They do something but not enough to justify the radical actions of the Government that has ostracised so many and caused other consequences that never get mentioned - all to 'save lives' - not enough IMO. Life goes on - we will all die one day - if this thing had a 5-10% death rate then I might come closer to accepting harsher actions but not the way things are now.
 
Stocks_go_Up said:
Isn't it logical the weakest people will die first - go look at NYC death rate at the start of this whole thing. There is NO reason deaths and cases should be going up and to the highest levels ever after 70%+ of the population has been vaccinated. Your telling me the 10% holdouts who aren't getting vaccinated are the reason instead of accepting the fact the 'vaccines' don't actually work as well as we were promised. They do something but not enough to justify the radical actions of the Government that has ostracised so many and caused other consequences that never get mentioned - all to 'save lives' - not enough IMO. Life goes on - we will all die one day - if this thing had a 5-10% death rate then I might come closer to accepting harsher actions but not the way things are now.
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Did you see the data posted in the other thread? 25 fold reduction in hospitalisation. That's everything promised & more.
 

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Sttew said:
52,000 cases in UK yesterday and 179 deaths. Talk of a lockdown
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That's just what 'living with COVID' looks like.

They key is this though:

_121129281_hospital_admissions_facet_17october-nc.png


Striking the balance between social, health and economic impacts of a pandemic isn't easy, but in this case I think the only way to do so is vaccination.

And I think this is the case for mandatory Vax. Not that I'm a supporter - but this is the case for.

Those sorts of numbers would destroy their health system, and still might, if a huge chunk of the population wasn't vax'd. It becomes a numbers game.

Its rate of fully-vaccinated people no longer ranks in the top 10 countries with a population of at least one million.
 
Slippery Pete said:
It’s not hard to see why, the overwhelming majority of their population is unvaccinated.

And by unvaccinated, I mean they haven’t had their third booster.
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That's the first sensible and accurate thing you've said for a while.

We known protection from catching COVID wanes after around 6 months. Same as the natural immunity does.

So as times passes, case numbers will obviously increase.

But we also know that protection against severe symptoms stays high. That's the key really.

Boosters will become part of life for those vulnerable to severe symptoms. And potentially the rest of us too if the inevitable massive case numbers become an issue.

All part of 'living with COVID'.
 
Lavender Bushranger said:
That's the first sensible and accurate thing you've said for a while.

We known protection from catching COVID wanes after around 6 months. Same as the natural immunity does.

So as times passes, case numbers will obviously increase.

But we also know that protection against severe symptoms stays high. That's the key really.

Boosters will become part of life for those vulnerable to severe symptoms. And potentially the rest of us too if the inevitable massive case numbers become an issue.
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So those who are unvaccinated just need to wait a few months and soon all Australians will be unvaccinated.
 
Lavender Bushranger said:
No.
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You don’t have to take my word for it.

You can take it from Chairman Dan if you want:

“This will be well into 2022, well and truly into 2022. Then we’re going to get into the booster issues, so it won’t be your first and second dose, it will be, ‘have you had your third?’ Then the other issue will be, who knows what variant is coming?”
 
Slippery Pete said:
You don’t have to take my word for it.

You can take it from Chairman Dan if you want:

“This will be well into 2022, well and truly into 2022. Then we’re going to get into the booster issues, so it won’t be your first and second dose, it will be, ‘have you had your third?’ Then the other issue will be, who knows what variant is coming?”
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So they'll get their booster shot and not be unvaccinated?

Also vaccination provides a higher baseline of protection after 6 months than no vaccination iirc.
 

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Slippery Pete said:
Victoria has, by world standards, not had a balance.
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Agree, health outcomes have been prioritised. Social life has obviously been shredded, economically it has not been the disaster some people make out - for some industries they have been devastated but a lot of business have adapted and continued without too much damage. I suspect if the economic damage was greater we would have had less lockdown.

But hard to tell exactly what, with the benefit of hindsight, would have been the optimal response. I assume your position would be less lockdown and worse health outcomes. What country managed this well?
 
owen87 said:
So they'll get their booster shot and not be unvaccinated?
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How many boosters would you be prepared to take on an ongoing basis just to retain your basic freedoms? Genuine question.

owen87 said:
Also vaccination provides a higher baseline of protection after 6 months than no vaccination iirc.
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But that’s clearly not the point here. Natural immunity ie — having covid antibodies — also provides good baseline protection, but that doesn’t exempt anybody from vaccination.

Dan Andrews’ government decides when and why you’ll be vaccinated. That’s the precedent here.

Which you’ve clearly indicated you’re okay with for now, but my question is, for how long are you okay with this?
 
Slippery Pete said:
How many boosters would you be prepared to take on an ongoing basis just to retain your basic freedoms? Genuine question.



But that’s clearly not the point here. Natural immunity ie — having covid antibodies — also provides good baseline protection, but that doesn’t exempt anybody from vaccination.

Dan Andrews’ government decides when and why you’ll be vaccinated. That’s the precedent here.

Which you’ve clearly indicated you’re okay with for now, but my question is, for how long are you okay with this?
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So you've misrepresented what I've said, in order to try to force me to argue an extreme position?

*yawn*
 
Slippery Pete said:
I assumed you’d be happy taking a third booster (was this wrong?) and then asked how many more would you be happy taking to particpate in society.

Pretty straightforward.
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Yeah. Nah.

Slippery Pete said:
But that’s clearly not the point here. Natural immunity ie — having covid antibodies — also provides good baseline protection, but that doesn’t exempt anybody from vaccination.

Dan Andrews’ government decides when and why you’ll be vaccinated. That’s the precedent here.

Which you’ve clearly indicated you’re okay with for now, but my question is, for how long are you okay with this?
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Slippery Pete said:
Which part of what I said is not true or does not apply to you?
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As I said;

owen87 said:
So you've misrepresented what I've said, in order to try to force me to argue an extreme position?
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You never simply ask a question, you frame the question in a way that either the person is forced to argue an extreme position, or you won't accept the answer despite demanding the people accept your opinion as truth.

I've said a number of times, you don't engage in good faith, this is yet another occasion.
 
owen87 said:
As I said;



You never simply ask a question, you frame the question in a way that either the person is forced to argue an extreme position, or you won't accept the answer despite demanding the people accept your opinion as truth.

I've said a number of times, you don't engage in good faith, this is yet another occasion.
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This is like pulling teeth.

It is a really simple question which I’ve asked three times now. How many booster shots will you be prepared to take to continue participating in society?

If you don’t want to answer it, just say so.
 
Slippery Pete said:
This is like pulling teeth.

It is a really simple question which I’ve asked three times now. How many booster shots will you be prepared to take to continue participating in society?

If you don’t want to answer it, just say so.
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I've made it quite clear I don't believe you're at all asking a question in good faith, so I'm not going to engage in a discussion where from the outset you've pre-emptively determined an extreme position.

Kingswood might be willing to waste his time on your nonsense because he's a far better person than I.
 
Slippery Pete said:
How many boosters would you be prepared to take on an ongoing basis just to retain your basic freedoms? Genuine question.
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I'd be happy to take ongoing booster shots on a yearly basis in a similar vein to how I already take yearly flu vaccinations. Will it be to retain my basic freedoms? No, it'll be to maintain high level of antibodies to the virus.

Do I think I'll need to do it to retain my basic freedoms? No. Because I'm of the belief that these restrictions will not last forever, but rather during this period where the world is getting a grip on a global pandemic. We're already seeing the relaxation of these restrictions now that vaccination numbers are on the rise so I'm confident in maintaining that belief.

I know I'm answering a question posed to owen87, but... I think he may share the above view (apologies if wrong).
 
I've been thinking I can't really see how bar / wait staff at smaller pubs, restaurants, cafes, etc are going to be able to check everyone's vaxx certificate, then on top of that for anything to happen further they'd need to be unlucky enough to have a compliance check when someone happens to be unvaxxed and in the venue

i feel like it'll become like the mask mandate - i don't think anyone has been fined for not wearing a mask this year, (except Andrews ha!) - so besides the big things like airports or big venues/events etc, i wouldn't be surprised if there is little difference going forward for day to day things between vaxed/unvaxed

a theory, anyway
 
radiojake said:
I've been thinking I can't really see how bar / wait staff at smaller pubs, restaurants, cafes, etc are going to be able to check everyone's vaxx certificate, then on top of that for anything to happen further they'd need to be unlucky enough to have a compliance check when someone happens to be unvaxxed and in the venue

i feel like it'll become like the mask mandate - i don't think anyone has been fined for not wearing a mask this year, (except Andrews ha!) - so besides the big things like airports or big venues/events etc, i wouldn't be surprised if there is little difference going forward for day to day things between vaxed/unvaxed

a theory, anyway
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I had a coffee this morning and they asked to see my check-in screen (which has the vaccination status) in the Service VIC app.

Took 2 seconds whilst doing my coffee order.
 
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