Victorian Government Stadium Funding Agreement details

rfctiger74

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Where do I talk about a grand conspiracy?
Maybe you read that into my quote from Caros article, its not a conspiracy its a statement of fact.
I am seeking some verification that the A in AFL was considered before the GF was locked away at the MCG until 2057.
this is the part i dont get with you. what do you need to believe the a was considered?

tbh, i like your posting, but i dont think there is anything the afl could do, even if the commission was 100% wa peeps
 

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The_Wookie

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The GF allows the MCC to borrow the money if we are to believe the detail of the deal as represented in the media.
Its the extension of the overall contract, not just the Grand Final. So the 45 matches a year, the top 10 of 12 drawing games, and the 10 finals every 5 years, and Collingwoods 14 games a year. There might be some tweaks to that, but I wouldnt expect many.
 

Roogal

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The afl gets a 100k stadium as the proxy jewel in its crown, without paying for it, and with a quarter of the capacity effectively owned by it

Afl didnt get involved in optus because it would have wanted rights the mcc is willing to give that they wont. Thats why perth isnt hosting a gf for at least 40 years
The reason why Perth isn't hosting for 40 years or even now is because ... why would you shift the biggest event on the AFL calendar from the biggest stadium at its disposal and play it at a venue half its size? That's the question that you're not answering.

Who cares if Adelaide Oval or Optus Stadium or even Etihad Stadium are more modern, the reality is that they each only seat about 50,000 each.
 

rfctiger74

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The reason why Perth isn't hosting for 40 years or even now is because ... why would you shift the biggest event on the AFL calendar from the biggest stadium at its disposal and play it at a venue half its size? That's the question that you're not answering.

Who cares if Adelaide Oval or Optus Stadium or even Etihad Stadium are more modern, the reality is that they each only seat about 50,000 each.

Um, my very first sentence was "The afl gets a 100k stadium as the proxy jewel in its crown"
 

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this is a basic business practice. its about being able to prove a guarantee of future revenues. clubs for instance have done it with afl guarantees in the past re: distribution revenues
All correct, what you are missing is the back room nature of the negotiation, a deal stitched by a select few, strangely enough the encumbents of the day.
Now I am calling for Richard Goyder to answer the questions being asked by the non V component of the AFL.
 

Kwality

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Um, my very first sentence was "The afl gets a 100k stadium as the proxy jewel in its crown"
Did that alone seduce Gil ? :thumbsu: IMHO, a CEO pointing to the Balance Sheet as his legacy, whilst the Premier of Vic points to the investment in community footy & keeping the GF until 2057, fodder for an election campaign later this year.
The MCC get to update the stadium in 10 years time & in return is cutting its margin on AFL games, yes cutting its margin on AFL games to look after the clubs :rolleyes: in return for keeping the crown jewels of the AFL for 40 years.

The pub test rfc: in Vic its a big win no doubt. Everyone at the table gets what they want.
 

rfctiger74

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All correct, what you are missing is the back room nature of the negotiation, a deal stitched by a select few, strangely enough the encumbents of the day.
Now I am calling for Richard Goyder to answer the questions being asked by the non V component of the AFL.
who else would do the deal? the AFL, govt, and the MCC are the relevant parties to the discussion. there was no "select few", just the people relevant to the discussion

not everything needs to go to open tender. They would be able to weigh up the pro's and con's pretty easily. Removing the GF guarantee would mean either the AFL providing the funding direct for the project (something it is loath to do), or the vic govt doing so. for the govt to do it, it would imo mean taking away the etihad money. As an AFL investment, that result would be a poor one for them, so it returns to how do you get the MCC to pay.

for the govt, etihad is also the preferred option for their involvement. they are desperate to revitalize the docklands precinct, and much of that money is towards that end.

as for the commission publicly justifying their decision, i have no issue with that. the commission should be answerable and transparent, otherwise people think everything is a big anti-wa conspiracy ;)
 

rfctiger74

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Did that alone seduce Gil ? :thumbsu: IMHO, a CEO pointing to the Balance Sheet as his legacy, whilst the Premier of Vic points to the investment in community footy & keeping the GF until 2057, fodder for an election campaign later this year.
The MCC get to update the stadium in 10 years time & in return is cutting its margin on AFL games, yes cutting its margin on AFL games to look after the clubs :rolleyes: in return for keeping the crown jewels of the AFL for 40 years.

The pub test rfc: in Vic its a big win no doubt. Everyone at the table gets what they want.
Gil's legacy will the womens comp and the mighty AFL-X :p

on the mcc cutting margins, it may not just be that alone. remember the capacity is going up 5k, and that is all in the GSS. at least half of that will be in the "public" area, which is greater capacity for clubs to sell (this is the area that always fills up first remember). will be interesting to see if the AFL also increases the size of the AFL reserve, or if it will just realigns it (ie its numbers stay the same, all the increase goes public)
 

Kwality

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who else would do the deal? the AFL, govt, and the MCC are the relevant parties to the discussion. there was no "select few", just the people relevant to the discussion

not everything needs to go to open tender. They would be able to weigh up the pro's and con's pretty easily. Removing the GF guarantee would mean either the AFL providing the funding direct for the project (something it is loath to do), or the vic govt doing so. for the govt to do it, it would imo mean taking away the etihad money. As an AFL investment, that result would be a poor one for them, so it returns to how do you get the MCC to pay.

for the govt, etihad is also the preferred option for their involvement. they are desperate to revitalize the docklands precinct, and much of that money is towards that end.

as for the commission publicly justifying their decision, i have no issue with that. the commission should be answerable and transparent, otherwise people think everything is a big anti-wa conspiracy ;)
The anti WA line, is that just an attempt to trivialise the whole thing?

Given Australias biggest State indicated interest in the GF in recent years, not even a phone call?

There is no need to justify the current deal, its a win win for everyone at the table, just a pls explain for the AFL.

On the nuts & bolts, digressing, revitalising the Docklands precinct will take a bit more than doing up the stadium, its damn windy working down there, great on a good day but windier than St Georges Terrace overall, gives windy Wellington a run, https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2015/oct/15/where-world-windiest-city-spoiler-alert-chicago-wellington
 

rfctiger74

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The anti WA line, is that just an attempt to trivialise the whole thing?

Given Australias biggest State indicated interest in the GF in recent years, not even a phone call?

There is no need to justify the current deal, its a win win for everyone at the table, just a pls explain for the AFL.

On the nuts & bolts, digressing, revitalising the Docklands precinct will take a bit more than doing up the stadium, its damn windy working down there, great on a good day but windier than St Georges Terrace overall, gives windy Wellington a run, https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2015/oct/15/where-world-windiest-city-spoiler-alert-chicago-wellington
the wa comment wasnt to trivialize, just to point out this isnt some grand plot against one state or in favour of another. as wookie has stated many times, the commission is made up of a number of non-victorians, yet you seem to always have this belief that they are plotting to hurt all non vic states and boost victoria. I think thats unfair to them, and the track record of the commission backing the national growth of the league backs them up.


I would also bet my left nut the AFL had discussions with major events teams in NSW and WA without fail, and most likely initiated by these major events groups. point they never became formal discussions or went somewhere tells a lot however. the offers being hinted at weren't worth the price.

putting aside the fairness argument (because that requires GF with one weeks notice, so no corp sales, and at all grounds hosting including kardinia park, metricon, and showgrounds), its all about how much does the AFL get for the GF. The AFL has made the decision that the few million a major events group would pay for the GF isnt worth losing ongoing modernization of the G. They made that decision when they invested in the GSS, and this is the third time they have recommitted to this.

final point, before you ask "why havent we heard about these discussions?!?!?!?", we wouldnt. why would wa govt want it publicly made known they failed to get something, esp if it never went far. NSW govt always look stupid when they try to poach events and fail.
 

Rabman

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What happens to all this if the liberals get in?
 

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Kwality

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the wa comment wasnt to trivialize, just to point out this isnt some grand plot against one state or in favour of another. as wookie has stated many times, the commission is made up of a number of non-victorians, yet you seem to always have this belief that they are plotting to hurt all non vic states and boost victoria. I think thats unfair to them, and the track record of the commission backing the national growth of the league backs them up.


I would also bet my left nut the AFL had discussions with major events teams in NSW and WA without fail, and most likely initiated by these major events groups. point they never became formal discussions or went somewhere tells a lot however. the offers being hinted at weren't worth the price.

putting aside the fairness argument (because that requires GF with one weeks notice, so no corp sales, and at all grounds hosting including kardinia park, metricon, and showgrounds), its all about how much does the AFL get for the GF. The AFL has made the decision that the few million a major events group would pay for the GF isnt worth losing ongoing modernization of the G. They made that decision when they invested in the GSS, and this is the third time they have recommitted to this.

final point, before you ask "why havent we heard about these discussions?!?!?!?", we wouldnt. why would wa govt want it publicly made known they failed to get something, esp if it never went far. NSW govt always look stupid when they try to poach events and fail.
Understand, I dont believe moving the GF has ever been seriously considered by the current AFL administration on the basis it was locked up until 2037 as it was.
As for discussions with major events teams, you do recognise the Vic body wasnt involved ...... three groups sat around a table & came up with a deal that suited them & i'd suggest it is naive to believe it ever went any further.
As for the discussions you pose a question then try to lob it at my feet -no its not a question I'd pose.

& be under no illusion I do believe Victoria gets a better shake from the AFL than any of the other heartland States ... not relevant to the funding but to demonstrate why I hold that view, check out the Martin Flanagan article re Tas:http://www.themercury.com.au/sport/afl/respected-football-journalist-martin-flanagan-criticises-afl-for-losing-focus-on-grassroots/news-story/a56a4571419632e698aa415c3e7c02bd
 

rfctiger74

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Understand, I dont believe moving the GF has ever been seriously considered by the current AFL administration on the basis it was locked up until 2037 as it was.
As for discussions with major events teams, you do recognise the Vic body wasnt involved ...... three groups sat around a table & came up with a deal that suited them & i'd suggest it is naive to believe it ever went any further.
As for the discussions you pose a question then try to lob it at my feet -no its not a question I'd pose.

& be under no illusion I do believe Victoria gets a better shake from the AFL than any of the other heartland States ... not relevant to the funding but to demonstrate why I hold that view, check out the Martin Flanagan article re Tas:http://www.themercury.com.au/sport/afl/respected-football-journalist-martin-flanagan-criticises-afl-for-losing-focus-on-grassroots/news-story/a56a4571419632e698aa415c3e7c02bd
I agree it hasnt been seriously considered, but thats because i dont think a "serious" offer has been made. to go to the MCG and break their original deal, it would have to be big. and tbh I think its not just $3m a year big
 

Kwality

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I agree it hasnt been seriously considered, but thats because i dont think a "serious" offer has been made. to go to the MCG and break their original deal, it would have to be big. and tbh I think its not just $3m a year big
$3m wouldnt build a set of change rooms.
 

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I could've sworn Ikon Park was getting $50mil. I remember reading on the Herald Sun website the headline but the article was paywalled and the next day I couldn't find the article again. Anyone know what exactly they'll be doing at Ikon Pak? It says they'll be demolishing facilities in the south-west corner of the stadium, but that is between the Pratt Stand and Training Area.
Ok so this is the article I was talking about.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/aflw/carlton-is-planning-a-50-million-redevelopment-of-ikon-park-to-make-it-the-home-of-aflw/news-story/28ca820b87aa3d7e6a3702972bd1f79f
Seems like they wanted $50 million but only got $20 million. Their plan is to bulldoze the Pratt Stand. That's where I like to sit at AFLW games but I reckon a new grandstand there would be brilliant. It's still got bench seating which is OK but not ideal. Hopefully they learn from when they built the Legends Stand and go upwards, not outwards. Plus I have heard it was built with asbestos which isn't good for a stadium that prides itself on being the home of AFLW in Victoria.
 

Roogal

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The northern stand holds more people than the southern stand. If you re-build the southern stand to the same height as the northern stand and applying the same 2003 standards, you would increase the capacity by approx 5,000.


Bench seating, standing room and a disregard for people's health and safety .
You're definitely right about the disregard for health and safety thing back then, but at least nobiidy wsss killed.
 

Roogal

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Ok so this is the article I was talking about.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/aflw/carlton-is-planning-a-50-million-redevelopment-of-ikon-park-to-make-it-the-home-of-aflw/news-story/28ca820b87aa3d7e6a3702972bd1f79f
Seems like they wanted $50 million but only got $20 million. Their plan is to bulldoze the Pratt Stand. That's where I like to sit at AFLW games but I reckon a new grandstand there would be brilliant. It's still got bench seating which is OK but not ideal. Hopefully they learn from when they built the Legends Stand and go upwards, not outwards. Plus I have heard it was built with asbestos which isn't good for a stadium that prides itself on being the home of AFLW in Victoria.
$20 million will get a new scoreboard $750,000, TV broadcast lighting at about $4 million, an AFLW HQ admin complex and change facilities for a few million, and the remainder would be spent fixing up the presentation of the ground, ie seating, catering and public facilities.
 

Roogal

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$3m wouldnt build a set of change rooms.
WOW!

I've got to see your renovated bathroom ... complete with its gold plated ****ter ;)

:thumbsupemoji::thumbsupemoji::thumbsupemoji:
 
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The_Wookie

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Ok so this is the article I was talking about.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/aflw/carlton-is-planning-a-50-million-redevelopment-of-ikon-park-to-make-it-the-home-of-aflw/news-story/28ca820b87aa3d7e6a3702972bd1f79f
Seems like they wanted $50 million but only got $20 million. Their plan is to bulldoze the Pratt Stand. That's where I like to sit at AFLW games but I reckon a new grandstand there would be brilliant. It's still got bench seating which is OK but not ideal. Hopefully they learn from when they built the Legends Stand and go upwards, not outwards. Plus I have heard it was built with asbestos which isn't good for a stadium that prides itself on being the home of AFLW in Victoria.
they're expecting money from the AFL, and hoping for some from the Feds too
 

Kwality

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Seems not all the detail is public on this deal, heard Caro on 3AW discussing a number of issues raised by Eddie as not supposed to be in the public domain - will the press let us know or are they too compromised?
Was preoccupied so missed the detail, something about a riverfront property & terms of the funding.
 

Roogal

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What happens to all this if the liberals get in?
Interesting question, the latest line from them is that they will redirect the $275 mil from Etihad which is AFL owned. That said, they have not yet ruled out the funding of the upgrades of the State and local council owned grounds such as Ikon Park, VU Whitten Oval so nothing is certain at all. The Liberals Policy isn't very clear except that they are ambiguously saying that they will direct the $275 million toward community sport.

We do need to consider that last Thursday's announcement wasn't just all about AFL. It included funding for upgrading the State Hockey and Basketball Centres in addition to making several grounds in and around Melbourne AFLW and female cricket friendly too. Plus there was moneys included for smaller sport facility upgrades around the state.
 
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NoobPie

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Interesting question, the latest line from them is that they will redirect tge $275 mil ftom Etihad which is AFL owned. That said, they have not yet ruled out the funding of the upgrades of the State and local council owned grounds such as Ikon Park, VU Whitten Oval so nothing is certain at all. The Liberals Policy isn't very clear except that tyyey are ambiguously saying that they will direct the $275 million toward community sport.

We do need to consider that last Thursday's announcement wasn't just all about AFL. It included funding for upgrading the State Hockey and Basketball Centres in addition to making several grounds in and around Melbourne AFLW and female cricket friendly too. Plus there was moneys included for smaller sport facility upgrades around the state.
It's pretty comical really. Just an imagination-and-idea-free opposition grasping for some hook they think will be popular

How do you reconcile handing over $50M a year to the F1 corporation but you won't invest in a stadium owned by a NFP sporting competition centred on your capital city? Particularly one that involves a commitment to open it up to other sports and 20 extra years of the biggest show in the country locked in the state

Before it became clear that there appears to be an extra $8M a year from the MCC to the tenant clubs I thought this was a so so deal for the AFL. Certainly this is a very good deal for the Vic government compared to everywhere else in this country
 

Kwality

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It's pretty comical really. Just an imagination-and-idea-free opposition grasping for some hook they think will be popular

How do you reconcile handing over $50M a year to the F1 corporation but you won't invest in a stadium owned by a NFP sporting competition centred on your capital city? Particularly one that involves a commitment to open it up to other sports and 20 extra years of the biggest show in the country locked in the state

Before it became clear that there appears to be an extra $8M a year from the MCC to the tenant clubs I thought this was a so so deal for the AFL. Certainly this is a very good deal for the Vic government compared to everywhere else in this country
Yep its a good deal (too good?) for Vic.

Any comparison with international tourism aka F1 is farcical, compare the Spring Carnival IF you are dinkum, yes I dont believe you are, thinkers anywhere :thumbsdown:

Check out Gils puerile/pathetic/cringeworthy claims over equalisation for the GF decison*, you'd have to be a 100 cent dill to accept it & these dills are shoulder to shoulder across Victoria, man up Noob !

* good to see you accept the leg up for some clubs is sufficient for you to deny this inequality ... exactly who is not entitled Gil?
 

NoobPie

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Any comparison with international tourism aka F1 is farcical, compare the Spring Carnival IF you are dinkum, yes I dont believe you are, thinkers anywhere :thumbsdown:
OK Sir thinker, can you tell me why perhaps low 10s of thousands of international tourists a year for a 4 day car race at $50M a pop is a better investment than investing in a sporting competition that attracts 100s of thousands of interstate visitors to your state each year in perpetuity?

The investment in Etihad is effectively 5 years of grand prix largess and apparently much of it is to improve the surrounding amenity and does not include a 5 star hotel the AFL is building.
 
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