Victorian Government Stadium Funding Agreement details

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RUNVS

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So what is the Victorian government actually doing to Etihad and the MCG? I mean as far as I know with the MCG they are knocking down a perfectly good stand and replacing it with a stand that is pretty much the same.
 

The_Wookie

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So what is the Victorian government actually doing to Etihad and the MCG? I mean as far as I know with the MCG they are knocking down a perfectly good stand and replacing it with a stand that is pretty much the same.
They arent doing anything for at least a decade with the MCG, at which point the Southern Stand will be 35 years old. And even then, whatever is done will be done and paid for by the MCC.
 

Roogal

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So what is the Victorian government actually doing to Etihad and the MCG? I mean as far as I know with the MCG they are knocking down a perfectly good stand and replacing it with a stand that is pretty much the same.
You're right, the stand is only 26 years old and still has many years left in it. It's a good basic and very solid structure that is roomy and easy to get around. All that it probably needs is a fresh lick of paint, new seating and some modernisation of the public amenities contained within.

The government never set a time line for when they would be replacing it, they just said that it may need to eventually be replaced or upgraded.
 

Kwality

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You're right, the stand is only 26 years old and still has many years left in it. It's a good basic and very solid structure that is roomy and easy to get around. All that it probably needs is a fresh lick of paint, new seating and some modernisation of the public amenities contained within.

The government never set a time line for when they would be replacing it, they just said that it may need to eventually be replaced or upgraded.
The round robin of the cash & kind is not as it appears to some? As I understand it

The AFL agree to extending the tenure of the GF at the G.
The MCC agree to update the facility in the future* & the State Government agree to guarantee the borrowing. The MCC commit to improved returns for tenant clubs effective 2019.
Premier Daniel Andrews said $225 million would be spent on an upgrade of Melbourne's Docklands stadium to improve the ground for sports like soccer, rugby league and rugby union.
The funding will also go to improving women's changerooms in the stadium.
The State Govt locks up the economic benefits of the GF.

Lots of other expenditure in a pre election State budget.

*
"While there is no firm timeline or plan surrounding a redevelopment of the Great Southern Stand, we expect that such a project would be delivered in the next 10-15 years," MCC chairman Steven Smith said ...
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-04-14/southern-stand-upgrade-at-least-10-years-away
 

Pessimistic

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A rebuild of the Southern Stand would not increase capacity one single seat. The Northern Stand (Ponsford, Members and Olympic Stands) which occupies a similar footprint of boundary line as the Southern Stand was designed in line with 2003 standards as opposed to the Great Southern Stand that was built to a 1989 standard and a lot less fat people ... just to seriously put things into politically uncorrect perspective. Ever wonder how they got 121,000 into the G in 1970 with a much smaller ground? Truth is that people were smaller and thinner back then and they also had bench seating.

A 2028 version of a Great Southern Srand would definitely be considerably bigger, higher and probably seat around the same number of people.
28 bays with ten extra rows approx 24 seats wide is about 7000

I’d really like them to abandon the corporate boxes behind the punt road end and extend level 2 seating back further, then peel back the front level 4 to have a big ‘end’ like newer European stadiums. The smaller level 4 could be left empty on lower drawing games. In effect levels 2 and 4 would be swapped

Don’t think that will happen though. Coprporate facilities are the big earner
 

Pessimistic

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Also I live in Canterbury which is liberal heartland. My impression travelling around is dozens of ovals etc have had significant upgrades in the last two decades.

I don’t really see them as poor cousins
 

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Roogal

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The round robin of the cash & kind is not as it appears to some? As I understand it

The AFL agree to extending the tenure of the GF at the G.
The MCC agree to update the facility in the future* & the State Government agree to guarantee the borrowing. The MCC commit to improved returns for tenant clubs effective 2019.
Premier Daniel Andrews said $225 million would be spent on an upgrade of Melbourne's Docklands stadium to improve the ground for sports like soccer, rugby league and rugby union.
The funding will also go to improving women's changerooms in the stadium.
The State Govt locks up the economic benefits of the GF.

Lots of other expenditure in a pre election State budget.

*
"While there is no firm timeline or plan surrounding a redevelopment of the Great Southern Stand, we expect that such a project would be delivered in the next 10-15 years," MCC chairman Steven Smith said ...
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-04-14/southern-stand-upgrade-at-least-10-years-away
Yes but the time lines are only speculative. It would be hard to justify demolishing a very solid structure that is doing its job equally as well as the newer structure without some significant catalyst. The only conceivable reason that they would want to demolish and replace it would be for aesthetic reasons at this stage which would be totally insane! Yes the seats in the GSS are a bit old now and probably could be replaced with newer seats and some of the facilities such as toilets and catering areas could do with an update, but that's hardly a reason to run the wrecking ball through what is a perfectly functional and accessible facility that's doing its job exactly as it was designed and built to do only 26 years ago.
 

Kwality

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Yes but the time lines are only speculative. It would be hard to justify demolishing a very solid structure that is doing its job equally as well as the newer structure without some significant catalyst. The only conceivable reason that they would want to demolish and replace it would be for aesthetic reasons at this stage which would be totally insane! Yes the seats in the GSS are a bit old now and probably could be replaced with newer seats and some of the facilities such as toilets and catering areas could do with an update, but that's hardly a reason to run the wrecking ball through what is a perfectly functional and accessible facility that's doing its job exactly as it was designed and built to do only 26 years ago.
More likely that part of the deal will be renegotiated by MCC over the 10-15 year timeframe IMHO. Not sure the MCC have to redevelop, contract? If so it should be in their financials, its material.
 

bombersfan4000

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So what is the Victorian government actually doing to Etihad and the MCG? I mean as far as I know with the MCG they are knocking down a perfectly good stand and replacing it with a stand that is pretty much the same.
A bit like the stadiums in Sydney! But the difference is for games most weekends Melbourne has decent crowds while Sydney does not!
 

Roogal

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More likely that part of the deal will be renegotiated by MCC over the 10-15 year timeframe IMHO. Not sure the MCC have to redevelop, contract? If so it should be in their financials, its material.
Not sure if they can afford to rebuild anything, they and their 100,000 members are still going to be paying off the $290 million that they contributed to the building of the Northern part of the ground for the next 16 years. At least the $162 million to build the GSS was entirely funded by the Hawke government way back in 1989.
 

Prince Imperial

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The last MCC annual report showed they have $163m of borrowings which was down from $176m the year before. Interest payments were $12m. With the principle reducing and therefore decreasing interest costs they should be debt free in about 10 years and then able to borrow again to rebuild the GSS.
 

Roogal

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The last MCC annual report showed they have $163m of borrowings which was down from $176m the year before. Interest payments were $12m. With the principle reducing and therefore decreasing interest costs they should be debt free in about 10 years and then able to borrow again to rebuild the GSS.
But does it need re-building? Nobody has provided a satisfactory answer to that beyond aesthetics, and someone mentioned the corporate box arrangements. But as a public stand that is supposed to be accessible and functional for the general public it is a very good facility that offers excellent views of the ground, it's not difficult to move around, its amenities are easily accessible, I can't think of a sensible reason to demolish it and impose the cost of replacing it (which would likely be around a billion dollars in ten years time) on the MCC members and the general public in our ticket prices.
 

Kwality

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But does it need re-building? Nobody has provided a satisfactory answer to that beyond aesthetics, and someone mentioned the corporate box arrangements. But as a public stand that is supposed to be accessible and functional for the general public it is a very good facility that offers excellent views of the ground, it's not difficult to move around, its amenities are easily accessible, I can't think of a sensible reason to demolish it and impose the cost of replacing it (which would likely be around a billion dollars in ten years time) on the MCC members and the general public in our ticket prices.
Relax its not a fait accompli, maybe its an excuse to extend the life of the GF deal, as needed by the politicians to justify the handout to the AFL. Its election year, getting re elected is a worthwhile reason for most anything, yeh?
 

Prince Imperial

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But does it need re-building? Nobody has provided a satisfactory answer to that beyond aesthetics, and someone mentioned the corporate box arrangements. But as a public stand that is supposed to be accessible and functional for the general public it is a very good facility that offers excellent views of the ground, it's not difficult to move around, its amenities are easily accessible, I can't think of a sensible reason to demolish it and impose the cost of replacing it (which would likely be around a billion dollars in ten years time) on the MCC members and the general public in our ticket prices.
It doesn't at this point of time but in about a decade it may start to resemble in relative terms what the 37 year old Western (Ponsford) stand did when it was demolished in 2004. Building standards continually improve. I think the seating in the GSS is less spacious than in the newer northern stand for example. The MCC will anyway be in the position to substantially refurbish it.
 

Underarm

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But does it need re-building? Nobody has provided a satisfactory answer to that beyond aesthetics, and someone mentioned the corporate box arrangements. But as a public stand that is supposed to be accessible and functional for the general public it is a very good facility that offers excellent views of the ground, it's not difficult to move around, its amenities are easily accessible, I can't think of a sensible reason to demolish it and impose the cost of replacing it (which would likely be around a billion dollars in ten years time) on the MCC members and the general public in our ticket prices.
There's things that could be better.
The Concourse outside the GSS wing needs to be larger, its a major choke point.
Level 2 and 2a doesnt have great facilities.
Roof being lower causes problems for the Video screens.
An Elavator up to level 4 on the other side of the stand would be useful.

In 10+ year who knows what else might come up.
 

JohnZ

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There's things that could be better.
The Concourse outside the GSS wing needs to be larger, its a major choke point.
Level 2 and 2a doesnt have great facilities.
Roof being lower causes problems for the Video screens.
An Elavator up to level 4 on the other side of the stand would be useful.

In 10+ year who knows what else might come up.
To add to this:

Level 1 GSS is great, massive tick and is the foundation of the Northern Stands design

However:
*The ramps are non DDA compliant and there are no public service lifts, limiting wheelchairs to the back of the Level 1 seats.
*There are no retail food/beverage outlets on levels 2 and 2a, as the space is solely used by functions
*The toilets for 2/2a are located on level 2a (for public use), if someone did get to level 2 in a wheelchair, they would have to climb (pretty steep) steps to get to them, or be assisted up/down some very steep ramps
*The Level 4 facilities in general are pretty ordinary and under-sized for any event that requires level 4 to be used (ie GF day, boxing day, any crowd 70k+). The outlets are half the size they need to be considering level 4 serves the same number of people as level 1, and the concourses are dangerously crowded with lines spilling out.

Superficial Things, that are neither here nor there.
*The GSS roof blocks the screen for those who are sitting in the middle 2/3s of the stand
*There are no escalators and lifts up to level 2/2a/4
*The stand design does not allow for much natural light. It's a lot of concrete and holes (think subi 3 tier stand).
 

Kwality

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Interesting comments by Juddy in the Fairfax press:
The AFL is slowly transforming itself from a sporting competition to a conglomerate whose activities include running a sports competition, funds management and the creation of a legal system to judge the guilt and innocence of players who’ve allegedly acted inappropriately.

Funds management expertise is something the AFL will need to build into their executive team.

The AFL’s mandate should be public and needs to be conservative enough to safeguard against mismanagement should the AFL fall into the hands of incompetent executives.

One of the challenges the AFL faces is to balance the ambitions of future AFL executives managing the league’s investments with the fact that its core business is and should always be running a fair and equitable sporting competition. Not enough scope to grow the investments could result in low quality in the role, while high scope to grow the investments could put the funding requirements of the league and game development at risk in a downturn.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/big-business-tricky-business-the-afl-has-to-tread-carefully-20180423-p4zb7w.html
 

its been done

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To add to this:

Level 1 GSS is great, massive tick and is the foundation of the Northern Stands design

However:
*The ramps are non DDA compliant and there are no public service lifts, limiting wheelchairs to the back of the Level 1 seats.
*There are no retail food/beverage outlets on levels 2 and 2a, as the space is solely used by functions
*The toilets for 2/2a are located on level 2a (for public use), if someone did get to level 2 in a wheelchair, they would have to climb (pretty steep) steps to get to them, or be assisted up/down some very steep ramps
*The Level 4 facilities in general are pretty ordinary and under-sized for any event that requires level 4 to be used (ie GF day, boxing day, any crowd 70k+). The outlets are half the size they need to be considering level 4 serves the same number of people as level 1, and the concourses are dangerously crowded with lines spilling out.

Superficial Things, that are neither here nor there.
*The GSS roof blocks the screen for those who are sitting in the middle 2/3s of the stand
*There are no escalators and lifts up to level 2/2a/4
*The stand design does not allow for much natural light. It's a lot of concrete and holes (think subi 3 tier stand).
Don't forget there's very little permanent food/bar outlets from M21 to M28 and as stated by someone earlier some parts of the concourse on level 1 are too tight leading to bottlenecks
 

The_Wookie

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https://www.premier.vic.gov.au/kicking-goals-for-womens-and-grassroots-sport-in-casey/

Minister for Sport John Eren joined Member for Cranbourne Jude Perera and AFLW Melbourne Demons players at Casey Fields today to back in the $5 million investment to upgrade facilities for women’s footy at the ground.

Home of the AFLW Demons, the funding will deliver female-friendly changerooms, new team benches and an upgraded public-address system – making Casey Fields better for players and fans.

The upgrades are part of a $241.6 million boost for women’s and community sport in the Victorian Budget 2018/19, which includes $67 million for elite women’s facilities, $20 million to redevelop Ikon Park into the home of AFLW and a $15 million boost for the Female Friendly Facilities Fund.

It’s not just AFLW that will benefit, grassroots competitions in the south east experiencing booming female numbers will also have access to the new facilities during development programs, training and competition at the ground.

Visiting Casey Fields, Mr Eren also announced five local clubs will share in almost $11,000 from the Sporting Club Grants Program, including:

  • $2,000 to Devon Meadows Junior Football Club for coach training
  • $1,000 to Casey Comets Soccer Club for new uniforms
  • $1,000 to Cranbourne Bowling Club for new uniforms plus a further $5,000 to redevelop the club’s website
  • $1,000 to South Sudan Equatorians Association for new soccer uniforms
  • $990 to Cranbourne Southern Stars Sports Club for new netball uniforms
This comes on top of a further $60 million for community sporting grants and $5 million for Community Sports Infrastructure Loans, which will unlock up to $100 million to upgrade local facilities.
 

The_Wookie

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https://www.premier.vic.gov.au/kicking-goals-for-grassroots-sport-in-williamstown/

Local sports clubs and facilities in Williamstown will share in the biggest investment in women’s and community sport in Victoria’s history thanks to the Andrews Labor Government.

Minister for Sport John Eren joined Member for Williamstown Wade Noonan today to announce $2.1 million to upgrade local sports facilities at both Bayside College Paisley and Williamstown Campuses.

More locals than ever are signing up to play sport, and clubs including Williamstown CYMS Football and Cricket Clubs, Williamstown Cricket Club, Williamstown Juniors Football Club and Williamstown Football Club’s VFL men’s and women’s teams are struggling to cater for growing demand.

The upgrades will deliver new sports fields and female-friendly change rooms, complete with lighting, providing a perfect base for training, development programs and competition.

It’s not just the clubs that will benefit, Bayside College students and local community groups will also have access to the new facilities for school competitions and local events.

The Labor Government is also helping more people in Williamstown – of all ages and abilities – get active by giving local clubs the equipment, skills and expertise they need to grow and be more competitive.

Visiting the Bayside College Williamstown Campus, Mr Eren also announced that five local clubs will share in almost $7,000 from the Sporting Club Grants Program, including:

  • $2,000 to Power House Junior Rugby Union Football Club for junior coach training
  • $1,798 to Williamstown Juniors Football Club for administrator training
  • $1,000 to Barnstoneworth United Junior Football Club for new portable goals
  • $1,000 to Williamstown Congregational Cricket Club for new female uniforms
  • $1,000 to Williamstown Football Club for new women’s jumpers
This comes on top of a further $60 million for community sporting grants and $5 million for Community Sports Infrastructure Loans, which will unlock up to $100 million to upgrade local facilities.

The Victorian Budget 2018/19 will invest $241.6 million in women’s and community sport, including more than $100 million to improve facilities and access for women.
 
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