Victorian Junior Football Association (1883-1928)

[MortlockWatcher]

I am hoping that a fellow history buff can help me.

I am doing some research on the Victorian Junior Football Association (1883-1928) and have been able to use the 1875-1979 editions of The Footballer for referencing and Trove has been getting a right royal smashing.

I am hoping that someone in here may have scanned copies of the other editions of this annual or any edition of the The Victorian Football Guide apart from 1892 or any edition of the ABC Football Guide and Register (1886-?) that I may be able to have the use of.

 

[Todman]

By coincidence I've been looking at VJFA during lockdown. I started out looking at the VFA Sub-Districts and then crossed over. For those that don't know, the VJFA became the reserve grade of the VFA in 1929 although the name was still in use after the war.

From what I understand, Melbourne & Suburbs Assoc started in 1927 and during the middle 1928 changed its name to the VFA Sub-district as a direct form of competition against the VFL Sub-Districts that ran from 1925 to 1949 before being revamped into the Metropolitan FL.

I've only been concentrating of the 1920s and 30s.

 

[MortlockWatcher]

By coincidence I've been looking at VJFA during lockdown. I started out looking at the VFA Sub-Districts and then crossed over. For those that don't know, the VJFA became the reserve grade of the VFA in 1929 although the name was still in use after the war.

From what I understand, Melbourne & Suburbs Assoc started in 1927 and during the middle 1928 changed its name to the VFA Sub-district as a direct form of competition against the VFL Sub-Districts that ran from 1925 to 1949 before being revamped into the Metropolitan FL.

I've only been concentrating of the 1920s and 30s.

I have gone into depth with my research and have started writing a book on it. I have all the ladders from 1889 (when they began) until 1928 and have built up a healthy wad of notes.

The VJFA was second only to the VFA in Victoria in stature between 1883 and 1896 and from the late-1890s was the equivalent of the old VMFL as well, settling disputes for metropolitan and rural fringe competitions as well.

It's power got diminished with the formation of the Victorian Junior Football Union in the mid-1920s to oversee the metropolitan competitions and the creation of the VFA and VFL Sub-Districts competitions steered it towards the path of being the Association Seconds. 1928 saw it being called both the VJFA and the Association Seconds in the press and then only the latter from 1929. I cannot find a reference to the name VJFA after 1934.

I am actually surprised that very little has been written of the Association apart from references in a few Marc Fiddian books and a couple of club histories.

 

[Todman]

V.J.F.A. - Annual Meeting Hold - The Age (Melbourne, Vic. : 1854 - 1954) - 24 Feb 1932

Glowing tributes to the work of the re[?] secretary, Mr. W. Faweett, were paid by officials and delegates at the annual meeting at [?] Victorian Junior Football Association [?] ...

trove.nla.gov.au

An article on the 50th annual meeting, including the retirement of W Falcett who had been secretary since 1901.

A lot of suburban newspapers were a bit slow on the changing of the titles and names of competitions.

 

[blueycarlton]

The demise of the VFA second twenty or reserves comp. was due to the severe economic depression of the 1890's. I believe some of the reserves teams became for example, Carlton Juniors or Collingwood District.
I think some of the VFA reserves teams played in the VJFA or later the VJFL. It would be very interesting to find out how many clubs were involved and if any were the senior clubs' reserves teams prior to the VFL Reserves comp in 1919. All power to your research.

 

[MortlockWatcher]

The demise of the VFA second twenty or reserves comp. was due to the severe economic depression of the 1890's. I believe some of the reserves teams became for example, Carlton Juniors or Collingwood District.
I think some of the VFA reserves teams played in the VJFA or later the VJFL. It would be very interesting to find out how many clubs were involved and if any were the senior clubs' reserves teams prior to the VFL Reserves comp in 1919. All power to your research.

Many VFL and VFA clubs had second sides at some stage in the VJFA in the twentieth century - some for a year and some for around 20 years. The clubs were Brunswick, Carlton, Collingwood, Essendon, Fitzroy, Footscray, Hawthorn, Melbourne, North Melbourne, Northcote, (Port Melbourne? - I am still to check whether Port Melbourne Railway United were linked to PMFC), Prahran, Preston, Richmond, South Melbourne, West Melbourne, Williamstown.

Camberwell, Caulfield (they were South Caulfield in the 1920s), Coburg, Northcote, Preston and Yarraville all fielded their senior teams in the VJFA before being admitted into the VFA.

Despite living in Perth, I had been making some great strides in my research but have hit a bit of a road block with some key research resources currently being locked away until the corona s**t ends so I might be lucky enough to have a book ready for the 140th anniversary of the VJFA's formation in 2023.

While I am waiting for all the main libraries to re-open, I am starting on another book - a statistical history of football in Western Australia from 1885 until approx. 1920. Most books that have been done focus only on the WAFA (WAFL) but I am aiming to include as many of the country leagues as possible in my research.

 

[footyfan1978]

Who the * are you wonderful people and where did you come from ?
Did Philip Jeffries place you here ?

 

[MortlockWatcher]

I love that profile pic.
I remember that Bosustow mark like it was yesterday even though I was 7 at the time.
I was sitting at the top of the Hawthorn Stand and I was looking down on it as 'the Buzz' soared above John Mossop and Scott Howell.

 

[footyfan1978]

I love that profile pic.
I remember that Bosustow mark like it was yesterday even though I was 7 at the time.
I was sitting at the top of the Hawthorn Stand and I was looking down on it as 'the Buzz' soared above John Mossop and Scott Howell.

I think I was about 15 metres behind him standing somewhere in front of steps of Robert Heatley stand with a couple of school mates. Same, as it can still remember it like yesterday. Was probably in my first couple of games I went to live.

 

[Aut Vincere Aut Mori]

I think I was about 15 metres behind him standing somewhere in front of steps of Robert Heatley stand with a couple of school mates. Same, as it can still remember it like yesterday. Was probably in my first couple of games I went to live.

I have been researching the Leopold Football Club (Sth Melb variety not the Geelong one) during the Covid lockdown (also smashing Trove). They were firstly in the Southern Suburban Junior Football Association 1894-1897) and then in the Metropolitan Junior Football Association (1898-1915) later known as the M.Amateur.F.A and then the VAFA. My research saw that the VJFA was probably the third ranked football competition in the State with the MJFA the next most important. It seemed to have a mixture of Clubs some with connections to VFL or VFA clubs. The term Junior shouldn’t be confused with underage. At the time, the terms ‘second-rate’ or ‘third rate’ were also used like Junior to designate non first class (ie VFL, VFA) completions.
Some Clubs deliberately endorsed clubs in both VJFA and the MJFA (eg South Melbourne had Pembroke VJFA and Leopold MJFA as their surrogate clubs.
Possibly, just prior to WW1 I think it could be argued that the MJFA was the stronger of the two Junior competitions with Hawthorn, Coll Districts, Carlton Districts, University, Beverley (Richmond), and Fitzroy Juniors. The VJFA had Prahran, Northcote, Footscray, Brighton, Williamstown, Yarraville, NM, Brunswick, Port Melb, Preston.
The MJFA went into recess 1916 to 1919 and in 1919 the VJFL was established by the VFL probably as a direct opposition to the VJFA which provided a direct line of players for the VFA clubs. It wasn’t until 1925 that the VJFL became the VFL 2nds/reserves and every Club was represented and the terms Juniors and Districts were dropped from the Club names. I’m sure the VFA saw a need to follow the VFL example and hence the VJFA became the VFA 2nds in 1928.
There’s so much to the history and story of these Junior competitions and I look forward to seeing the fruits of the research being done on the VJFA. Put me down for a copy of the book when it’s done.
After that, we need to look at the two Sunday completions a d their histories.



On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Aut Vincere Aut Mori]

I have been researching the Leopold Football Club (Sth Melb variety not the Geelong one) during the Covid lockdown (also smashing Trove). They were firstly in the Southern Suburban Junior Football Association 1894-1897) and then in the Metropolitan Junior Football Association (1898-1915) later known as the M.Amateur.F.A and then the VAFA. My research saw that the VJFA was probably the third ranked football competition in the State with the MJFA the next most important. It seemed to have a mixture of Clubs some with connections to VFL or VFA clubs. The term Junior shouldn’t be confused with underage. At the time, the terms ‘second-rate’ or ‘third rate’ were also used like Junior to designate non first class (ie VFL, VFA) completions.
Some Clubs deliberately endorsed clubs in both VJFA and the MJFA (eg South Melbourne had Pembroke VJFA and Leopold MJFA as their surrogate clubs.
Possibly, just prior to WW1 I think it could be argued that the MJFA was the stronger of the two Junior competitions with Hawthorn, Coll Districts, Carlton Districts, University, Beverley (Richmond), and Fitzroy Juniors. The VJFA had Prahran, Northcote, Footscray, Brighton, Williamstown, Yarraville, NM, Brunswick, Port Melb, Preston.
The MJFA went into recess 1916 to 1919 and in 1919 the VJFL was established by the VFL probably as a direct opposition to the VJFA which provided a direct line of players for the VFA clubs. It wasn’t until 1925 that the VJFL became the VFL 2nds/reserves and every Club was represented and the terms Juniors and Districts were dropped from the Club names. I’m sure the VFA saw a need to follow the VFL example and hence the VJFA became the VFA 2nds in 1928.
There’s so much to the history and story of these Junior competitions and I look forward to seeing the fruits of the research being done on the VJFA. Put me down for a copy of the book when it’s done.
After that, we need to look at the two Sunday completions a d their histories.



On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

Also, John Wren of Collingwood tote fame donated the Wren Shield for the premiers in the VJFA. Any idea what ever happened to this trophy??
He also created a club in 1905 that was called the Murmur Football Club in the VJFA and was its President. It changed its name part way through the season to City Tattersalls. Their home games were at Richmond Racecourse which was one of three racecourses Wren owned and conducted his own races. (Fitzroy and Ascot) were the other two.
The team lasted only the single season in the VJFA. I’m interested in what was Wren’s motivation for this club??
Murmur was a successful racehorse of the time I believe.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[dct66]

Does anyone have any information of what happened to Port Melbourne Railway United when the VJFA became the VFA Seconds in 1928? I believe they were the defacto Port Melbourne 2nd XVIII while in the VJFA and may have dropped the Railway United around the time of the re-established VFA Seconds.

To further confuse matters there was a Port Melbourne United Football Club around the same time. I've seen a photograph with a caption saying they were premiers 1928-29-30. Could this have been in the VFA Sub District Association? B&W photo but looks like they wore Port Melbourne striped jumpers.

 

[blueycarlton]

Also, John Wren of Collingwood tote fame donated the Wren Shield for the premiers in the VJFA. Any idea what ever happened to this trophy??
He also created a club in 1905 that was called the Murmur Football Club in the VJFA and was its President. It changed its name part way through the season to City Tattersalls. Their home games were at Richmond Racecourse which was one of three racecourses Wren owned and conducted his own races. (Fitzroy and Ascot) were the other two.
The team lasted only the single season in the VJFA. I’m interested in what was Wren’s motivation for this club??
Murmur was a successful racehorse of the time I believe.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

Have look on Trove

President, Charles Lenney
Bert Griffiths; Hon.Sec.
Delelgates; Griffiths and J. E. Roberts
Colors; Brown and Blue

Herald April 28 p5 1905

 

[blueycarlton]

From the Argus Monday 10,
Between July 10 and July 19 Murmur became City Tattersall
City Tattersall last on the ladder, Played 10 won 1 Lost 9 Drawn 0 points 4
the previous Monday Murmur was listed a last on the ladder.

 

[35Daicos]

Does anyone have any information of what happened to Port Melbourne Railway United when the VJFA became the VFA Seconds in 1928? I believe they were the defacto Port Melbourne 2nd XVIII while in the VJFA and may have dropped the Railway United around the time of the re-established VFA Seconds.

To further confuse matters there was a Port Melbourne United Football Club around the same time. I've seen a photograph with a caption saying they were premiers 1928-29-30. Could this have been in the VFA Sub District Association? B&W photo but looks like they wore Port Melbourne striped jumpers.

There was still/again a Port Melbourne Railway United around in 1932:





But I haven't seen anything about what happened back in 1928.

Port Melbourne United were indeed premiers in the VFA Sub-Districts Association (B Grade) in 1928, 1929 and 1930:




They weren't promoted in 1929 after winning the B Grade premiership the year before, and this suggests the competition was age-based:

Another team with the same name was playing in this competition, so could that have been the senior team from that club?:

 

[dct66]

There was still/again a Port Melbourne Railway United around in 1932:
View attachment 1598960
View attachment 1599005
View attachment 1599006
View attachment 1599007
View attachment 1599010
But I haven't seen anything about what happened back in 1928.

Port Melbourne United were indeed premiers in the VFA Sub-Districts Association (B Grade) in 1928, 1929 and 1930:
View attachment 1598951
View attachment 1598980
View attachment 1598998
View attachment 1598953
They weren't promoted in 1929 after winning the B Grade premiership the year before, and this suggests the competition was age-based:
View attachment 1598961
Another team with the same name was playing in this competition, so could that have been the senior team from that club?:
View attachment 1598977

Thank you. I am forming my own theories based on what you have found and I suspect it may be similar to the VJFA vs VFA Seconds where the former name continued to be used for a number years. There was a Railway United Cricket Team associated with, but established before, the Football Team. So if the Cricket was still going as Railway United it is quite likely that the Football Club still saw themselves in some regard as Railway United too even though they were operating at Port Melbourne Seconds. Thank you confirming Port Melb United as premiers of the VFA Sub Districts Association in 1928-29-30 at least that part is a bit clearer. It is so hard to piece it together nearly a hundred years later.

 

[Aut Vincere Aut Mori]

The Port Melbourne Railway Union Football Club premier team of the VJFA in 1925.
Apologies for the poor condition of the photo.
My relative was the trainer on the right hand side in white : John Edward 'Twister' Rogers

 

[Aut Vincere Aut Mori]

VJFA Premiers :
1886 North Park; 1887 North Park; 1888 North Park; 1889 North Park; 1890 North Park; 1891 Marylebone; 1892 North Williamstown; 1893 Napier Imperial;
1894 Fitzroy Juniors; 1895 Albion United; 1896 Albert Park; 1897 Albert Park; 1898 West Melbourne; 1899 Melbourne Juniors; 1900 Preston; 1901 Preston; 1902 Preston; 1903 South Melbourne Juniors; 1904 Northcote; 1905 Yarraville; 1906 Northcote; 1907 Footscray; 1908 Yarraville; 1909 Yarraville; 1910 Port Melbourne RU; 1911 Fitzroy; 1912 Port Melbourne Juniors; 1913 Port Melbourne Juniors; 1914 Port Melbourne Juniors; 1915 Footscray; 1916 Williamstown; 1917 Williamstown; 1917 Williamstown; 1918 Footscray; 1919 Williamstown; 1920 Yarraville; 1921 Preston; 1922 North Melbourne; 1923 Preston; 1924 South Melbourne Districts; 1925 Port Melbourne; 1926 Yarraville; 1927 Kingsville; 1928 Coburg;

Albert Park was an amalgamation of Napier Imperial and Marylebone. Albion United was a North Melbourne based club.

By 1924 the VJFA divided the Association two grades and played a final game of the winners of the two grades for the overall winner for the John Wren Shield. In 1925 the VJFA had separated the two grades into the VFA Club grade and the non VFA Club Grade.
By 1927 the non VJFA section was down to five clubs, all from the western suburbs : Kingsville; Yarraville; Sunshine; Braybrook; Williamstown Shell Refinery

Section Premiers 1924 - 1927
1924 : A SM District; B Hawthorn - winner SM District
1925 : VFA Port Melbourne; non VFA Yarraville (not yet a member of the VFA) - winner Yarraville
1926 : VFA Port Melbourne; non VFA Yarraville - winner Yarraville
1927 : VFA Coburg; non VFA Kingsville - winner Kingsville

Although the competition extended into 1928 and was referred to as the VJFA, it consistently entirely of the ten VFA Clubs and is considered the first season of the VFA 2nd XVIII. Coburg were the winners.

 

[Aut Vincere Aut Mori]

1925 VJFA Premier was Yarraville. Not Port Melbourne RU. Both were the sectional winners but Yarraville won the Grand Final played at the Motordrome 10.15.75 to 5.10.40 on 3 October.
The premiership photo is the sectional winning team.

 

[Aut Vincere Aut Mori]

Some other VJFA items of interest:

*Angus McDonnell of the Rose of Northcote Club stepped down as the VJFA President after 25 years of service to the Association; 19 years of these as President 1908-1927. (Sporting Globe 26 March 1927 page 6)

*The Rose of Northcote Club wore Yellow and Black stripes and competed in the VJFA at the same time as a Northcote club.

*Some other Clubs that played in the 20th century not previously mentioned (some only briefly)
Fitzroy Crescent; West Richmond; Richmond City; Carlton; Pembroke (became SM Districts); Collingwood; Werribee; Essendon; Prahran; Brunswick; Brighton; Camberwell; Ascot Vale (played on the old Ascot Vale Racecourse); Richmond; Essendon Town (VFA team's 2nds); Northcote Diggers; Kew; Carnegie; Sunshine; Springvale; North Melbourne Laurels; South Caulfield; Newport Commonwealth Oil Refinery; Fairfield.

*In 1909 the VJFA affiliated with the VFA to bring about district football.
*28 pounds were missing from the VJFA accounts.
*The VJFA played various interleague games and played in an all blue jumper with yellow and blue striped hose.
*Due to the unruliness of spectators at Croxton Park (Northcote) it was decided not to play any games there in 1902.
*in 1923 the VJFA removed the right of the Minor Premier to challenge if they were beaten in the Semi Final if they were not 4 points or greater ahead on the ladder.
*The VFL Sub Districts commenced in 1925 and several of the non-VFA Clubs in the VJFA saw the writing on the wall and moved to the VFL Sub Districts.

Finals commenced in 1906. Final/GF venues were : Richmond City 1909; Croxton Pasrk 1910; 1911; 1912; Arden Street 1913; 1914; 1915; Eat Melbourne 1916; 1917; 1918; 1919; Western Oval 1920; Dandenong 1921; MCG 1922 (Show Day); Punt Road 1923; Yarraville 1924 A; Northcote 1924 B; Richmond City A V B Grand Final; Motordrome 1925 non VFA; Northcote 1925 VFA; Yarraville 1925 non VFA v VFA; Western Oval 1926 non VFA; Yarraville 1926 VFA; Yarraville 1926 non VFA v VFA; Yarravillel 1927 non VFA; Kingsville 1927 VFA; Yarraville 1927 non VFA v VFA; Coburg 1928.

 

[Aut Vincere Aut Mori]

The VFL Sub Districts Premiers were :-

1925 Public Service; 1926 Fairfield; 1927 1st Grade Kew; 2nd Grade Balwyn. 1928 1st Grade Oakleigh (Oakleigh Sth Division d Fairfield Nth Division Premier); 1928 2nd Grade Abbottsford (Abbottsford Unallocated Grade d Kew 2nds Grade Premiers); 1929 1st Grade Fairfield; 1929 2nd Grade Middle Park (Middle Park Sth Division d Kew Districts Nth Division Premiers); 1930 1st Grade South Melbourne Districts; 1930 2nd Grade Fairfield (Fairfield Nth Division d Kew Districts Sth Division); 1931 1st Grade Kew; 1931 2nd Division Darling (Darling Sth Division d North Fitzroy Nth Division Premier); 1932 1st Division Kew; 2nd Division Fairfield District; 1933 1st Grade South Melbourne District; 2nd Grade East Brunswick; 1934 Kew; 1935 Fairfield; 1936 Sunshine; 1937 South Melbourne District; 1938 Fairfield; 1939 South Melbourne District; 1940 South Melbourne District; 1941 West Melbourne; 1942 Abbottsford; 1943 East Brunswick; 1944 Richmond District; 1945 Richmond United; 1946 Richmond United; 1947 Fairfield; 1948 East Brunswick; 1949 Richmond United.

The forerunner of the VFL Sub Districts was the Melbourne Districts Association that ran from 1906 to 1915 and then 1919 to 1924.
The Sub Districts suffered badly from WW2 and there were only five clubs left in 1942, 1943, and 1944. It never really recovered and by 1949 it had run its course and amalgamated with the VFA Sub Districts to form the Metropolitan Football League.

Premiers of the VFL Sub Districts were awarded the Ross Faulkner Shield.
The Best & Fairest of the League was awarded the Clota Medal named after an early President called Marcus Clota. The Clota family were associated with the Fitzroy Football Club.
The Bastow Cup was awarded to the Club with the most votes in the Clota Medal.

Don 'Mopsy' Fraser kicked 142 goals for Fairfield in the 1926 season and was also the Clota medallist.
The 2nd Grade Clota Medallist in 1931 was Fairfield's Herbie Matthews later to star with South Melbourne in the VFL.

 

[Todman]

Don 'Mopsy' Fraser kicked 142 goals for Fairfield in the 1926 season and was also the Clota medallist.
The 2nd Grade Clota Medallist in 1931 was Fairfield's Herbie Matthews later to star with South Melbourne in the VFL.

It was his father Don Sr. who achieved this.

 

[Aut Vincere Aut Mori]

It was his father Don Sr. who achieved this.

Thanks for that Clarrification.

 

[blueycarlton]

I have gone into depth with my research and have started writing a book on it. I have all the ladders from 1889 (when they began) until 1928 and have built up a healthy wad of notes.

The VJFA was second only to the VFA in Victoria in stature between 1883 and 1896 and from the late-1890s was the equivalent of the old VMFL as well, settling disputes for metropolitan and rural fringe competitions as well.

It's power got diminished with the formation of the Victorian Junior Football Union in the mid-1920s to oversee the metropolitan competitions and the creation of the VFA and VFL Sub-Districts competitions steered it towards the path of being the Association Seconds. 1928 saw it being called both the VJFA and the Association Seconds in the press and then only the latter from 1929. I cannot find a reference to the name VJFA after 1934.

I am actually surprised that very little has been written of the Association apart from references in a few Marc Fiddian books and a couple of club histories.

I'm tryng to find out what became of the Carlton Second Twenty or reserves from 1893 - 1919.
Do you know if Carlton's second twenty operated throughout 1893? or did it fold and duties taken over by the Carlton Juniors?
I know Royal Park Crescent was Carlton's feeder team in the latter part of the 1890s. Then Carlton District was involved later.

 

[MortlockWatcher]

I have the following VJFA affiliations from 1889 onwards when ladders became official:

North Carlton Imperials 1889
Carlton Juniors 1892-1894
Royal Park Crescent 1897
Carlton Juniors 1900
Carlton 1901-1909 (could be re-named Carlton Juniors)