Local Victorian Womens Footy - General Discussion

[BringBackTorps]

True, but refers to GR sports themselves that continue to prioritise male sport over female. Not the AFL [Incorrect. The AFL spends- with justifiable reasons at the moment- FAR more on GR male AFL players, including pro rata, than female players. There are still some GR AF clubs that have no interest in starting female teams. Also, the AFL- for justifiable reasons at the moment- prioritises the AFL over the AFLW].
In other words, point out where either local government has failed to keep up with female demand for community sports facilities, or where gr sports organisations continue to prioritise male sport over female. Neither have anything to do with the AFL.

"At present our country is seeing a rapid growth in female sports, with more women participating in traditionally male dominated sports. A wonderful outcome. But local clubs are struggling to keep up with the demand and provide appropriate facilities...All Australians deserve an EQUAL OPPORTUNITY (my emphases) to participate in sport and access to SUITABLE LOCAL FACILITIES ( my emphases)". Local clubs struggling to keep up, contributed to by local government struggling to keep up. A notable lack of reference to the AFL by Julia[ Gillard probably thought it was inappropriate to publicly "name & shame/identify" particular organisations at the Oration].

(1) I assume, as it has been 5 days since my post # 413 above, that you are unwilling to answer the questions I put directly to you on female AF.

Perhaps you might wish to answer this question.
As G. McLaclan & P.Gordon have both said (with enormous short & long term implications), paraphrasing, respectively that:-
. "Nothing has greater priority for the AFL than women's football".- McLachlan
. "The AFLW is the most profound & important progress in the sport since 1858".- Gordon

The AFL & other AF sport organisations spend a pittance on female AF, cf. their other spending.

If their above sentiments are genuine, MANY MORE tens of millions , at least, should be spent by the AFL & other AF sporting organisations on the AFLW & GR female AF. Do you agree- if not, on what basis?

(2) More information about the speeches at the Prime Ministers Sports Oration on 21.11, re GR sports & which will be an annual event, is in the link below.

https://www.pmso.sportsfoundation.org.au/article/

 

[jatz14]

(1) I assume, as it has been 5 days since my post # 413 above, that you are unwilling to answer the questions I put directly to you on female AF.

Perhaps you might wish to answer this question.
As G. McLaclan & P.Gordon have both said (with enormous short & long term implications), paraphrasing, respectively that:-
. "Nothing has greater priority for the AFL than women's football".- McLachlan
. "The AFLW is the most profound & important progress in the sport since 1858".- Gordon

If their above sentiments are genuine, MANY MORE tens of millions , at least, should be spent by the AFL & other AF sporting organisations on the AFLW & GR female AF. Do you agree- if not, on what basis?

(2) More information about the speeches at the Prime Ministers Sports Oration on 21.11, re GR sports & which will be an annual event, is in the link below.

https://www.pmso.sportsfoundation.org.au/article/

It's hard to determine what your question actually is, and to the degree I believe I understand it, I think I have answered it fully.

Women's football is undoubtedly a priority for the AFL. They are spending millions on it. The AFL is spending millions on AFLW, on pathways, on promotion, on high performance programs, on national carnivals. They do this as it's their job.

They are not spending millions on grass roots facilities for women because it's not their job. It's the job of local government.

They also do not do it because it's not within their means. I think you vastly underestimate the cost of a national infrastructure program like this, and vastly overestimate the money the AFL has free to spend on it.

The appropriate approach for the AFL is to identify areas of need, and lobby government to fill those needs, not do governments job for them.
I believe they are doing this.

Sent from my XT1068 using Tapatalk

 

[Gigantor]

The fact is that the explosion of womens footy is an absolute godsend for the AFL in terms of putting funding proposals to all levels of government.

 

[jatz14]

The fact is that the explosion of womens footy is an absolute godsend for the AFL in terms of putting funding proposals to all levels of government.

Getting second rate men's facilities upgraded will be much easier if it's done as part of getting new female facilities.

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[BringBackTorps]

Northcote Leader T. Michael Article 28.11.18

T. Michael discusses the possible addition of 10 new NFLW female adult teams in 2019 in the nthn./NE suburbs of Melb.

He quotes NFL CEO P. McDougall who presciently said

" ...we had three divisions of women's footy this year and we had three divisions of men's footy (not including U19's- my words). Women's footy was in its second season with us for seniors. The men, it was their 96th. In 96 years, you have got three divisions of men and in two years you have got three divisions for women. That probably tells a story".
Indeed.

In further evidence of the jnr. female AF boom continuing in 2018 (which is transpiring across Vic.), Michael writes

"McDougall said growth in junior girls teams had mirrored the rapid expansion of the NFLW senior Leagues". "That's still growing at a good, healthy rate where we are starting to see a couple of divisions in the younger age groups (ie 2 divisions in each age group- my words)".

http://leader.smedia.com.au/northcote/
Click on calendar at top left corner, next to Northcote Leader. Then click on 28.11 edition; then scroll to pg 37.

About 15 years ago, some private schools & a few AF evangelists & dreamers in Clubs began seriously to promote jnr. female AF.
(After the 2003 VCAT case ended the Football Victoria ban on teenage females playing AF. The incompetent AFL was not genuinely interested in female AF).

Later, some AF Club protagonists perceived introducing female jnr. AF as a way to improve their own Club (more resources/volunteers/sponsors etc.).
Now, because it is incontrovertible that Club female AF produces a huge number of benefits for the Clubs (& male players as well!), we have the FOMO (Fear Of Missing Out) Clubs realising it is wise to introduce female AF into their own Clubs- to maintain their competitiveness/attraction cf other nearby Clubs.

I expect within 10 years nearly every jnr AF Club in Aust. will have female jnr. teams; & c.75%+ of adult clubs will have adult female teams.

There is/will be a HUGE battle, particularly in the cities/larger regional towns to find sufficient ovals/proper lighting for training & playing- including evening matches; & separate, appropriate female facilities. These facilities should be built progressively, over the next 10-15 years- mainly funded by Councils/govts., & will cost $2 billion+ (in today's $).
There will also be a battle to open up state & private school ovals for Club AF matches- & training at state school ovals.

Excluding WW1 & WW2, AF organisations have ignored/mocked/banned (& now underfunded) female AF- only a pittance is spent now.
The comments of Susan Alberti are widely accepted, will not subside, & will become a crescendo over the next decade.
" I see change rooms and young girls putting up with facilities that are APPALLING (my emphasis)".
To maximise female participation (supposedly the AFL's goal), we need sufficient female AF toilets & separate changerooms.

https://www.pmso.sportsfoundation.o...-millions-to-sport-in-hope-others-will-follow

Those who think we can indefinitely ignore/just provide "lip service"/unreasonably delay this obvious need for fairness & proper female facilities are deluded.

 

[BringBackTorps]

Due to the female AF boom, there is a looming shortage of ovals for playing & training in Melb, Sydney, & Adelaide.

This link reports that "...more than half of all Victorian golf clubs (are) in financial stress...membership is declining...the changes affecting the future of golf have the potential to create a rapid shift in golf course land use...numerous golf courses will opt to sell their landholdings for huge windfalls to compensate for dwindling revenues and rising operating costs...". There has also been a recent a sell-off of several Vic. private golf courses to developers for housing etc.
It also appears that the Vic. govt. has the power to rezone privately owned golf courses to "Public Use" if they close, or are sold-off- thus creating the possibility of conversion to AF/other sporting uses. I am not sure what financial costs the the Vic. govt. would incur for such rezoning.

https://www.my-property-report.com/...ssess-the-future-of-golf-course-land-/1249679

 

[owen87]

Due to the female AF boom, there is a looming shortage of ovals for playing & training in Melb, Sydney, & Adelaide.

This link reports that "...more than half of all Victorian golf clubs (are) in financial stress...membership is declining...the changes affecting the future of golf have the potential to create a rapid shift in golf course land use...numerous golf courses will opt to sell their landholdings for huge windfalls to compensate for dwindling revenues and rising operating costs...". There has also been a recent a sell-off of several Vic. private golf courses to developers for housing etc.
It also appears that the Vic. govt. has the power to rezone privately owned golf courses to "Public Use" if they close, or are sold-off- thus creating the possibility of conversion to AF/other sporting uses. I am not sure what financial costs the the Vic. govt. would incur for such rezoning.

https://www.my-property-report.com/...ssess-the-future-of-golf-course-land-/1249679

You post the same whinge every week with different scenery.

 

[The_Wookie]

 

[The_Wookie]

 

[BringBackTorps]

1.

Sarah Black, above in post ##434, says the VAFAW has at least 1800 adult female players in 2019. The actual VAFAW number in 2019 is c. 3300 players.

2. AFL Victoria has stated there are 28,500 female jnr & adult females playing Club AF in 2019. There are, in 2019, 1092 female Club teams in Victoria, with at least 800 being jnr. female teams.
In 2018, it was 24,875 female Club competition players in Vic., thus the 2019 increase represents a 15% increases.

The juggernaut continues.

https://womens.afl/news/17897/women-s-footy-booming-victoria-marks-surpassing-1000-teams

 

[The_Wookie]

 

[TWLS]

Found this story which describes an Australia wide problem - The lack of facilities for junior Clubs featuring Boys and Girls.
It appears the AFL media are using another format -Instead of a Video they are using a series of close up photos to cover the story itself.

PHOTO GALLERY: How the Dolphins are starting to swim again

We visit the home of the Dolphins in Frankston as part of a three-part photo essay

www.afl.com.au

 

[NorthernBastard]

Anyone know where VU Western Spurs will ply their trade in 2020?

Have heard VAFA blocked their request to join

 

[CrowdedHouse]

Anyone know where VU Western Spurs will ply their trade in 2020?

Have heard VAFA blocked their request to join

I'm guessing the NFNL again?

Would be way too strong for the WRFL or EDFL.

 

[BringBackTorps]

Anyone know where VU Western Spurs will ply their trade in 2020?

Have heard VAFA blocked their request to join

1. Victoria University Spurs are the old St Albans Spurs, & were founded in 1993 by Debbie Lee, VWFL legend. They are a powerhouse in women's footy, have won numerous premierships & GF Runners-up in the old VWFL. In 2019, they won the Div.1 & Div.2 NFNL women's premierships.
They are backed, apart from the nearby Victoria University in Footscray, by the Western Bulldogs & Marybyrnong Council , & receive some TAC funding. A Spurs/Western Jets U18 player, Beth Georgostathis, was recruited in the 2019 AFLW Draft.

I'm surprised they were knocked back by the VAFA, which wants to increase its clubs in the western suburbs- "to become a big, big sound in the west of the town". They have the best song!





I have no info.on their VAFA application. It would be regarded as a coup for the VAFA to add such a powerful, gloried women's club such as Spurs.

https://www.facebook.com/westernspurs/


I assume they wanted to go straight into VAFA Premier (where they would be very strong)? For a new men's club entering VAFA, this would not be permitted .
Why did the VAFA reject them?

Why do they want to leave the NFNL?
(Apart from Victoria Uni. wanting to improve its "top end" private sector/tertiary sector connections- where the VAFA dominates)


2. Fitzroy FC's home ground, the historic Brunswick St Oval, is to soon receive a $6,500,000 major upgrade (Superior lights, suitable for night matches, were installed in 2019).

Ramsden St Clifton Hill ($1,500,000+) & other FFC ovals (inc. Victoria Park, Collingwood) are also being upgraded, due to the size of both snr & jnr clubs.

A driver of this Council & govt. financial support is the very large no. of female players the junior & senior (including Fitzroy ACU women's) clubs have- but female facilities are inadequate. Fitzroy JFC is one of the largest jnr. clubs in Victoria- females are being turned away, & female team nos. capped, due to inadequate no. of ovals being available to both clubs.

Fitzroy will eventually have some of the best facilities (including a large community meeting room & industrial kitchen) of any community AF club in Australia. This is one of the many GR AF benefits, occurring around Australia, of the female AF boom.

Brunswick Street Oval redevelopment: have you had your say?

null

www.fitzroyfc.com.au

 

[*Crash*]

1. Victoria University Spurs are the old St Albans Spurs, & were founded in 1993 by Debbie Lee, VWFL legend. They are a powerhouse in women's footy, have won numerous premierships & GF Runners-up in the old VWFL. In 2019, they won the Div.1 & Div.2 NFNL women's premierships.
They are backed, apart from the nearby Victoria University in Footscray, by the Western Bulldogs & Marybyrnong Council , & receive some TAC funding. A Spurs/Western Jets U18 player, Beth Georgostathis, was recruited in the 2019 AFLW Draft.

I'm surprised they were knocked back by the VAFA, which wants to increase its clubs in the western suburbs- "to become a big, big sound in the west of the town". They have the best song!





I have no info.on their VAFA application. It would be regarded as a coup for the VAFA to add such a powerful, gloried women's club such as Spurs.

https://www.facebook.com/westernspurs/


I assume they wanted to go straight into VAFA Premier (where they would be very strong)? For a new men's club entering VAFA, this would not be permitted .
Why did the VAFA reject them?

Why do they want to leave the NFNL?
(Apart from Victoria Uni. want to improve its "top end" private sector/tertiary sector connections- where the VAFA dominates)


2. Fitzroy FC's home ground, the historic Brunswick St Oval, is to soon receive a $6,500,000 major upgrade (Superior lights, suitable for night matches, were installed in 2019).

Ramsden St Clifton Hill ($1,500,000+) & other FFC ovals (inc. Victoria Park, Collingwood) are also being upgraded, due to the size of both snr & jnr clubs.

A driver of this Council & govt. financial support is the very large no. of female players the junior & senior (including Fitzroy ACU women's) clubs have- but female facilities are inadequate. Fitzroy JFC is one of the largest jnr. clubs in Victoria- females are being turned away, & female team nos. capped, due to inadequate no. of ovals being available to both clubs.

Fitzroy will eventually have some of the best facilities (including a large community meeting room & industrial kitchen) of any community AF club in Australia. This is one of the many GR AF benefits, occurring around Australia, of the female AF boom.

Brunswick Street Oval redevelopment: have you had your say?

null

www.fitzroyfc.com.au

Yes suspect they would not let them jump straight to A Grade. Could Spurs demerge into St Albans and Vic Uni with one to EDFL and one to WRFL?

Will Fitzroy women's team be demoted to Premier B in 2020?

 

[BringBackTorps]

1. The Northern Knights won the elite, female U 18 NAB League in 2019. They also had 5 players drafted into the AFLW, including no.1, Gab Newton.

Female Club Jnr AF developed strongly first in Melb.'s eastern & southern suburbs, where it is still very strong & has many private schools promoting female school AF.
Melb.'s nthn suburbs have a much smaller population than the south & east, & have far fewer private schools.
It is perplexing, therefore, to understand how the Northern Knights won the female NAB League (Nthn Knights have very rarely won the male NAB League/TAC Cup).

http://leader.smedia.com.au/northcote/

(Click on Back Issues, then click on 30.10 article- then slide across to pg 26)


2. The Age 3.11 pg 9 St Michael's School advertisement

Private schools in Melb. have been promoting enrolments in their schools by placing ads in local newspapers for decades- & usually acclaim their "point of difference" in their ads (eg more & greater "challenges" for female students etc.).

Since c. 2014, some of these ads have shown a large photo of a female student, in school AF gear, playing school AF in a match. Photo about 12 cms X 8 cms.

I was surprised, however, when I saw, for the first time, a large, similar, AF-themed ad in a MSM newspaper (The Sunday Age 3.11).
This ad was 26 cms X 19cms, and had a large, coloured photo of a St Michaels Grammar (St Kilda) female student playing AF, in school AF gear.

The headline was "Scholarship applications open for 2021 entry". In smaller writing, "Opportunities open to students entering Years 5-10 in 2021". It does not specifically state the school will offer an AF scholarship.

My assumptions of these types of school advertising are:-

. the growing popularity of female AF, amongst students & staff, in schools & Club comps. in Victoria (some private schools have boarders from the country).

. more schools with female students will be erecting AF goal posts, if they have their own sport grounds (some already are- most have soccer posts).

. some parents have a positive view on schools offering competition AF to their female students, another one of the "challenges" offered.

. the desire of some schools that they can offer large, & competitive, female AF teams; & the prestige of AF success.
( Private school male AF in Melb. is VERY competitive, & is becoming more professional- some say too professional & intense. Success of the First XV111 offers "bragging rights").

. it is likely that private school female adult AF teams (Old Girls) will emerge in the future, in the VAFA (similar to the many VAFA Old Boys' teams).

Can anyone provide an estimation of the approx. cost of such a 26 x 19 cms coloured ad in a MSM newspaper in Melb.? Any actually link a photo of this 3.11 Age ad here?


3. It is my understanding that the VAFAW had c. 4,000 adult female players in 2019 (some teams have 40+ players on their lists). Also, in 2020, probably c. 15 new female teams will be added. The VAFA had nil female players until 2017!
The female juggernaut is continuing in Vic., greatly benefitting GR AF.


4. Crash post# 441

VAFAW fixture not yet released.

It appears 2020 will have FitzroyACU playing in Premier B, following relegation.

Oops | AFL Victoria

aflvic.com.au

 

[*Crash*]

4. Crash post# 441

VAFAW fixture not yet released.

It appears 2020 will have FitzroyACU playing in Premier B, following relegation.

Oops | AFL Victoria

aflvic.com.au

I think there were a number of the FitzroyACU players from 2019 on VFLW lists. Be interesting if those on VFLW lists in 2020 are allowed to stay with FitzroyACU as anecdotally last year there was some suggestion that the VFLW clubs wanted players with Premier A teams when not playing for their VFLW club. Relegation could hurt a lot in that situation.

 

[BringBackTorps]

Followup to my post #442 above (point 2)

Here is an example of Melbourne private schools using female AF to promote their schools.
The local paper advert shows a colour photo of a female AF player, playing for her school. It is is 26 cms x 14 cms!

http://leader.smedia.com.au/port-phillip/

(click on "Back Issues" in top left corner of screen; then click on 26.11 Issue; then scroll, on right side, to page 7)

I have recently spoken to a senior teacher from a private school, which has female students, and I was told:-

. some private schools are very keen to promote female school AF, because they believe many fathers of female students are keen for their daughters to play AF. Some feel quite proud of their daughters playing- &, compared to other non-AF female school sports, the fathers are more likely to attend the school AF matches of their daughters/take a strong interest etc. It brings more "prestige" to the school.
The schools believe these AF games may enlarge the number of future enrolments in their schools.

. Melbourne private schools are keen to encourage the creation of Old Girls' alumni school AF teams, playing in the VAFA (similar to male AF teams).
They want a "seemless" transition from the school female AF teams to U19 & adult Old Girls' teams (similar to male teams).


IMO, networking directly to, & amongst, alumni has always been regarded as very important for private schools.
It seems to me that VAFA Old Boys' teams are promoting (compared with before) more publicly now (including on their websites) possible employment opportunities if playing for their teams. There are also business opportunities etc..
I wonder if this is a factor for the decision to increase professionalism/pursuit of excellence in Melbourne private school AF- where dominance in AFL Draft nos. is becoming stronger. Their Old Boys' teams will also become become stronger, if their students become much better footballers.

 

[The_Wookie]

The participation rate in women’s footy has skyrocketed in recent years, so much so that the AFL Outer East will be able to start a stand-alone competition in 2020.
Since the new competition was first mooted, interest from clubs in the region has been outstanding.

“Our aim is to get two divisions and it’s going really well,” league general manager Aaron Bailey said. “And we’ve got 12s, 14s, 16s and 18s leading into that as well, which is the really exciting thing.”

Bailey said the league was hopeful of extending the competition to three divisions, mirroring the men’s structure, in the near future.

This year Mount Evelyn, Upwey Tecoma, Healesville, Monbulk, Yarra Junction, Thornton Eildon and Belgrave fielded sides in the Eastern Region Women’s competition, playing alongside Eastern Football Netball League clubs, but they will play in the AFL Outer East next season.

“But essentially it’s new clubs,” Bailey said. “Existing clubs starting a women’s team.”

The rapid increase in female teams has forced administrators to look at different ways to accommodate their participation.

Bailey said a number of clubs were already pairing their women’s games with veterans games on a Sunday while some are using the 4.40pm timeslot after the completion of the senior men’s game of a Saturday with supporters staying back and throwing their support behind the women.

“The lighting through the Yarra Ranges and Cardinia is really good,” he said.

Bailey said clubs are embracing the women’s game with gusto.

“The advent of the AFLW came at a really good time,” he said. “There’s a genuine desire among clubs to get a women’s program going.

“Three girls were drafted out of the region into the AFLW this year.

“We’re at 50 per cent female participation including netball.”

No Cookies | Herald Sun

No Cookies

www.heraldsun.com.au

 

[NorthernBastard]

I think there were a number of the FitzroyACU players from 2019 on VFLW lists. Be interesting if those on VFLW lists in 2020 are allowed to stay with FitzroyACU as anecdotally last year there was some suggestion that the VFLW clubs wanted players with Premier A teams when not playing for their VFLW club. Relegation could hurt a lot in that situation.

If you're a fringe VFLW player trying to break into a team you would need to be looking for options in VAFA Prem A or NFNL div 1 if you're serious about improving your footy playing at VFLW level.

 

[BringBackTorps]

The TAC is updating its sponsorship (which started in 2019, @ $400,000) for GR AF in Vic. It will offer $1,300,000 to GR in 2020.

All 1200 GR Clubs in Vic. are entitled to apply. It appears, however, to favour sponsorship for female AF, as "...women's football implementation & development..." leads the description of where it donates its funds.

Oops | AFL Victoria

aflvic.com.au

The Vic. Dept of Health also has grants available to promote GR female sport: $500,000 available. Applications close 24.2.20

 

[NorthernBastard]

where's the VFLW fixture? it's almost Feb

 

[CrowdedHouse]

where's the VFLW fixture? it's almost Feb

Rumour has it the clubs already have the fixture, it just hasn't been released yet as they haven't locked in the naming rights sponsor.

 

[Greg Tivendale]

Murrumbeena womens went undefeated in back to back seasons in the Southern FL Div 1 womens, their team then took the leap up to Div 2 of the SEWFL and made the grand final to all just short. Pretty good effort considering.