Review Views and Reviews v Carlton

[POBT]

Sat where boys ran out. After the match going into the rooms the disappointment was all over their faces Rockliff and Brown gutted. Charmo looked like he was about to take someones head off!

How did they look at 3/4 time?

 

[PTizzle]

Rockliff had the second lowest game time beside the two subs. Anything in it?

Been carrying a niggle for a few weeks I reckon. He hurt his hand, but I think it might just be total burnout from such a long season. For a bloke with the 8th highest disposal average of all time after 50 games he's not living up to his standards. I think he peaked this year in the Doggies game, which was one of the best games he ever played, and has been sore and dropping off ever since.

Him, Rich and Redden desperately need an A grader around them to take the heat off. Someone to take some tags and heat. I see Rocky as a future captain and I love the bloke, but the last few weeks have made me see that he's just not ready for that responsibility yet, despite his attitude and media savvy.

Again tonight when we needed him he wasn't good enough. He lacks the ability to tear games up but I am confident that will come in time with more support and more experience. We have a real, real player there, despite what people like to say at times, but he like many others are just so strained.

If we beat the Dogs and Port I'll be happy with this season - 9 wins is good coming off last year. Then the boys need a big pre-season. The fact we were even talked about a few weeks ago as possible finals contenders (even if we knew it wasn't realistic) is a huge win.

All in all, this game made me think a lot about 2012. I was overly buoyant then overly annoyed, but now I'm just content with where we're at.

 

[mINORITY]

Feeling better about this game than last week's. Just wish a few more of our boys had found the big sticks tonight. Considering how bad it was looking at 3/4 time, the final results was ok.

Like others, I also thought Patful had a fantastic game.

 

[Bert Man]

How did they look at 3/4 time?

Disappointed and exhausted the long season has gotten to the boys.

 

[JasRulz63]

Was at the game tonight, and thought we played relatively well for three quarters, but the difference in the end was that third quarter. Carlton took their chances in that quarter, compared to our first half where our kicking for goal cost us. It was good to see us fighting it out in the end instead of just rolling over and suffering a 15 goal loss.

Our kick-in were terrible, especially in that third quarter. Players were stagnant and you can hardly blame the person kicking in for the ball coming straight back over his head. Most of the time it was just play on and bomb to the half forward flank, where there was a spillage that Carlton won, and bombed it straight back into the 50. I think we take our kick-ins too slowly, allowing the zone to be set up. It's similar to our lack of spread I guess, though it's amplified from kick-ins. Quite a few times Carlton cut us up from the kick-in because we didn't have time to set up.

I though Lisle played a good game, would've been up there in our best had he kicked straighter. But he worked hard to present, and clunked a few good marks. I especially enjoyed his contested mark that he took over the top in the second quarter.

I agree with everything that's been said about Beams too, I was so disappointed walking into the ground and seeing him as the sub on the scoreboard. The guy can play, so play him for a whole match! He added so much to our midfield in that last quarter, and you just felt like something good would happen when he got it.

Rockliff doesn't look right to be honest, saw him on the bench a fair bit and I think he would've been quite low on TOG too. Rich was well held as well. Hudson looks absolutely stuffed, don't think the end of the season could come quick enough for him. Lastly, Browny please don't ever retire

 

[Triple R]

Thoughts from the game.

Bewick played well, let us down with his kicking but I hope this was the breakout game he needed. He seemed to be playing deeper and leading hard up and it really worked well. A lot of our players were looking and going for him (Polks would occasionally lead but was almost always ignored).

Polkinghorne may be a good size and kick but he is dumb. He would block when he could get the ball and would go the ball when he should block. He is a downhill skier, unable to man up on his opponent on the wing and allowed his man to get the ball and enter the forward 50 while Polks is 40 metres behind. He didn't attack contests hard enough (for someone his size he should be doing a lot more damage). Really poor and there are others for some reason being kept out for him (Beams).

Beams is intelligent, hard and able to read the contest like Black and seldom few in our team can. Where has he been.

Patfull = AWESOME - stood tall - I think he missed Sauce...

Any talk of Jed being traded is plainly stupid; he leads, organises and is uncompromising at man and ball. He really sparks the boys.

Lisle was great, really surprised by how many marks he took. He takes a bloody age to get rid of the ball though. Probably needs a good chew on some adrenal glands before the game...

Green, Lester and Yeo were Great, Great and solid. They just tired near the end of the game as you would expect. I really like Lester, I think there is something very special there.

Reddo was hard as ****, I think he loves playing Carlton. He may be looking a fine or a week or two. Robinson was throwing them at Harwood (I think), he may go altough I was on the wing away from the melee. Harwood looks likely, he makes mistakes but seems to learn and correct himself (unlike Banfield). His kicking needs a more work (confidence), same for Reddo.

Wrigley was neat in patches but needs the confidence to really make a difference that he is capable of.

Banfield...well I'm sure a lot will be said of him....but....NOT AFL STANDARD.

Hanley gave Polks an absolute spray (rightfully) and he just dropped from then on. Polks needs a rest.

Really unfortunate that it blew out in the third. There were missed opportunities, mainly through basic skill errors and others under moderate pressure that should be executed correctly. Really troubling when we kick a point and then they run it down the other end for a quick goal. We were in that game, and then we stopped, they look like they have thrown it in.

 

[Dylan12]

Beaten by a better team on the night and no complaints about endeavour.

Did you watch the third quarter? I don't know whether I was more disgusted with the way we played in the third quarter or the last quarter. A lot of Lions fans around me felt the very same way and wondered what on earth Voss said during half time for them to come out and not even try. Great reward for all the fans who come out time and again to witness the Lions serve up that crap.

Our kicking was absolutely diabolical. Are these guys AFL players or bloody park footballers!

It was probably the first time I was filthy with Hudson this year. Don't bloody handball it to a teammate who is already under pressure or stationary...same could be said for a few guys who did that. Have they not learnt from Justin Sherman.

Ryan Lester was again average for mine. We play him in the midfield and he just plods around without urgency and is slow as all shit, yet a guy like Claye Beams comes in for a quarter, shows exactly how much of a footballer he is, yet is constantly left out...Lisle was about the same and I saw exactly why Hawks were non-plussed with letting him go. He couldn't hit the side of the barn from almost in front, same as last week.

Surely Banfield must be dropped for the remainder of the year. Why Cornelius is not played at Docklands is absolutely beyond me.

Not a whole lot to like again and after watching the team live every week since the game in Sydney, you wonder why you even bother considering most players hardly give a stuff.

No doubt the excuses will again be rolled out and the fluff pieces written about how disappointed they are etc etc, well why not read those fluff pieces before the game and at half time and stand behind them!

 

[Dylan12]

Glad to hear Vossy dished out a spray at 3qtr time. It was well earned.

I'm actually surprised.

As for kick ins, we need to change the "long to the boundary is the safe option" mentality. It is NOT a get out kick, as many call it, when the opposition is set up with more numbers & height there. We switch much less now than earlier in the season, and seem seriously gun shy when assessing options inside. Needs to be addressed.

Spot on. Our kick-ins were woeful, predictable and regularly went straight to Kreuzer and 3-4 other Carlton players outside 50. Same exact thing happened against the Eagles by bombing the ball to a pack with either Cox or NicNat. Surely that is a directive of Voss or Hanley has absolutely no idea when kicking out because it is just wrong to bomb the ball in that manner and not expect it to come back inside 50.

 

[Bucking Beads]

Did you watch the third quarter? I don't know whether I was more disgusted with the way we played in the third quarter or the last quarter. A lot of Lions fans around me felt the very same way and wondered what on earth Voss said during half time for them to come out and not even try. Great reward for all the fans who come out time and again to witness the Lions serve up that crap.

Our kicking was absolutely diabolical. Are these guys AFL players or bloody park footballers!

It was probably the first time I was filthy with Hudson this year. Don't bloody handball it to a teammate who is already under pressure or stationary...same could be said for a few guys who did that. Have they not learnt from Justin Sherman.

Ryan Lester was again average for mine. We play him in the midfield and he just plods around without urgency and is slow as all shit, yet a guy like Claye Beams comes in for a quarter, shows exactly how much of a footballer he is, yet is constantly left out...Lisle was about the same and I saw exactly why Hawks were non-plussed with letting him go. He couldn't hit the side of the barn from almost in front, same as last week.

Surely Banfield must be dropped for the remainder of the year. Why Cornelius is not played at Docklands is absolutely beyond me.

Not a whole lot to like again and after watching the team live every week since the game in Sydney, you wonder why you even bother considering most players hardly give a stuff.

No doubt the excuses will again be rolled out and the fluff pieces written about how disappointed they are etc etc, well why not read those fluff pieces before the game and at half time and stand behind them!

Lester average?? I know where you belong buddy. With all the crazies http://www.facebook.com/BrisbaneLionsAFC

 

[PattyKwasagun]

Do you think so? I think we have a few skilled players but, overall, I don't think we're particularly skilled.

I actually do, to be honest. After seeing us play how we did in the west coast and bulldogs game, I think on the whole we are definitely a skilled side. There's only a few who's skill level isn't quite to to scratch, but I'm sure that there are less head in hands moments produced by this current squad then a few years ago (Johnstone, Roe, Sheldon, Hawksley, Stiller and Collier to name a few).

When we've really been in good form, our skill level has looked near the top of the competition. Right now, there are a number of reasons why it seems the opposite - lack of running into position by team mates, more pressure on the ball carrier, the loss of quite a few composed players to injury, reasonably different lineups each week that take away from our knowledge of team mates.

Perhaps to say we're skilled is a little premature, but to say we aren't is wrong imo. I think with another pre-season or two, we'll be right up there with the best in terms of overall disposal, simply because we've got a side currently made up of not necessarily freak athletes who can take mark of the year or kick goal of the year, but really just 'get' footy. Knowing the right option to take always makes disposal seem a little better.

(thoughts in this post may not be coherent due to being half asleep and having a dying phone)

 

[Dylan12]

Lester average?? I know where you belong buddy. With all the crazies http://www.facebook.com/BrisbaneLionsAFC

I've never been on that facebook page, but why do you reference it as belonging with the crazies? Are their opinions too sensitive for most here?

Re Lester: in the first quarter alone he was fumbling and making clangers. I've watched him closesly for the past few weeks and I just don't see anything. He is slow and not once have I ever thought after any game he has played that he was good. He is a plodder to me and hope to be proven wrong, but I don't see why he is continuously selected at the expense of other 'scapegoat' players.

 

[PattyKwasagun]

Not a whole lot to like again and after watching the team live every week since the game in Sydney, you wonder why you even bother considering most players hardly give a stuff.

No doubt the excuses will again be rolled out and the fluff pieces written about how disappointed they are etc etc, well why not read those fluff pieces before the game and at half time and stand behind them!

Well there's the problem!! We've been poor since you started going!

In all honesty, I know you probably won't agree but you're being far too harsh on what is a seriously young group. Yes, we aren't the only young list in the comp, but bar the new teams, there aren't many others who rely solely on young guys as their core midfield group. Naturally, that will have negatives from time to time.

If we recruit and develop right over the next two years, and I'm confident the right people are in place to make that happen, we will be successful. We established the foundations last year, and we're now building on that. To expect immediate class or success is really just foolish. Be patient, trust that people who know much more about footy (and our players, which is often forgotten) than you and I are in control, and enjoy the 'previews' of what's to come. That's how we should really be living life as Lions fans for the rest of this year and perhaps next, as I really do believe that in the best moments of the season they've proved they're getting there, and are worth trusting and persevering with. Both players and coaches.

 

[T Rick]

Did you watch the third quarter? I don't know whether I was more disgusted with the way we played in the third quarter or the last quarter. A lot of Lions fans around me felt the very same way and wondered what on earth Voss said during half time for them to come out and not even try. Great reward for all the fans who come out time and again to witness the Lions serve up that crap.

Our kicking was absolutely diabolical. Are these guys AFL players or bloody park footballers!

It was probably the first time I was filthy with Hudson this year. Don't bloody handball it to a teammate who is already under pressure or stationary...same could be said for a few guys who did that. Have they not learnt from Justin Sherman.

Ryan Lester was again average for mine. We play him in the midfield and he just plods around without urgency and is slow as all shit, yet a guy like Claye Beams comes in for a quarter, shows exactly how much of a footballer he is, yet is constantly left out...Lisle was about the same and I saw exactly why Hawks were non-plussed with letting him go. He couldn't hit the side of the barn from almost in front, same as last week.

Surely Banfield must be dropped for the remainder of the year. Why Cornelius is not played at Docklands is absolutely beyond me.

Not a whole lot to like again and after watching the team live every week since the game in Sydney, you wonder why you even bother considering most players hardly give a stuff.

No doubt the excuses will again be rolled out and the fluff pieces written about how disappointed they are etc etc, well why not read those fluff pieces before the game and at half time and stand behind them!

Please use vent and save us from the vitriol!

 

[acuguy]

Interesting thoughts!

On Lester, he is not a speed demon, but he does continue to pop up on the tv screen and that is because he has an excellent workrate. He isn't your classical midfielder, but he presents around the field and is quite a good decision maker. He hasn't got an athletic running style but for me he is in the Brad Scott type midfield style. We need these solid competitors in our team.

Lisle was good, that pack mark showed why he is going to be good for us. Another pre season will see the fitness and build develop. I think he has been a big lump of a lad who has ability but probably hasn't worked hard enough at this stage of his career. Hopefully that is changing.

 

[Scubaveg]

Bit worried, where were Rocky and Richy when we needed them?

I hate Carlton players and their supporters.

Becoming a recurring theme for Rockliff. Has gone missing a lot this year.

 

[POBT]

Please use vent and save us from the vitriol!

Yep.

Dylan12 - if you want to get shit off your liver post game, then you can use The Vent Thread.

 

[patfullfankezz]

Lots of great pictures of Patfull on aflphotos.com.au too. So it's not all bad!

And one of this chick that got on the...wait, that's Danny Rich?!

 

[cmt26]

Lots of great pictures of Patfull on aflphotos.com.au too. So it's not all bad!

And one of this chick that got on the...wait, that's Danny Rich?!

Brock McLean looks like he has just discovered that it's a guy and not a girl

 

[piari]

When will AFL TV moguls realise what a terrible commentator Brereton is - he was woeful - again!
He had no idea as to who the Lions players were and what's more he didnt want to know - Carlton was the only team playing.
One thing King did say was intelligent though - it was one of Ratten's best game as coach - Voss et al didnt seem to get the Lions to adjust their game when Carlton changed their focus - especially in the third quarter.
Rants are all very well but when the players dont appear to know who they are supposed to b accountable for it makes for a bad look.

 

[cmt26]

Only saw the last quarter so can't comment on the whole game, but Beams was impressive in that quarter and Bewick looks to be coming along nicely. I had my concerns for him last year but with more games experience, he looks to be developing quite well, shows what another pre-season and more match experience can do.

Overall, I'll keep preaching patience, we have very little experience at the moment, but we are growing, and whilst there are ups and downs, we've seen improvement as a whole this year, which is good. Heading in the right direction, but still a long way to go.

 

[Haggis McHaggis]

When will AFL TV moguls realise what a terrible commentator Brereton is - he was woeful - again!
He had no idea as to who the Lions players were and what's more he didnt want to know - Carlton was the only team playing.
One thing King did say was intelligent though - it was one of Ratten's best game as coach - Voss et al didnt seem to get the Lions to adjust their game when Carlton changed their focus - especially in the third quarter.
Rants are all very well but when the players dont appear to know who they are supposed to b accountable for it makes for a bad look.

So you think he shouldn't have given them a rocket at 3qtr time? I think they needed it, having gone limp mid game against Richmond as well. You can't allow that kind of shit happen consistently without telling the players it isn't good enough. They knew damned well for the first half of the game. You don't just magically forget that. Simply put, we've gone to sleep mid game, for the second week running.

I can't believe these days giving a spray is seen as poor mans coaching. Barassi, Jeans, Smith, etc are all famous for delivering savage blasts when their teams earned them. Voss reacted as he well should have IMO. They needed a foot up their backside to remind them they still have work to do before the season's out.

 

[Elixuh]

Kudos to Patfull for a great game. Am becoming a really big fan of Harwood's. Was really impressed with his effort and run last night. Just needs a bit more confidence to kick some goals

One thing I was really glad about was that the umps did not pay a free against one of our guys every time Mitch Robinson got the ball and automatically ducked into any oncoming contact.

 

[Haggis McHaggis]

Spot on. Our kick-ins were woeful, predictable and regularly went straight to Kreuzer and 3-4 other Carlton players outside 50. Same exact thing happened against the Eagles by bombing the ball to a pack with either Cox or NicNat. Surely that is a directive of Voss or Hanley has absolutely no idea when kicking out because it is just wrong to bomb the ball in that manner and not expect it to come back inside 50.

Directive of Voss? Far from it. Read what he had to say about it after the game. Unlike most comments seem to suggest, I could see definite method to our kick ins early. We simply went away from varying it up. Lack of run, particularly unrewarded run, purely to take opponents out of the area, is most visible at the kick ins. When the only options are static, the perceived safety of the boundary line is hard to ignore. It's a footy wide phenomenon, taught from juniors, all the way on.

We need multiple lines to work hard at kick ins. Running patterns & work rate are critical.

 

[piari]

The game has changed somewhat since the days of the verbal tirade being considered of any value.

This is the ra of knowledge of both the team and the opposition, computers analysis and monitoring are what win games nowadays.

This gives coaches the capability to change from Plan A to Plan B, C or D. Unfortunately last night the Lions had no alternative to Ratten's changes in the 3rd quarter and when they were countered it was too late. Horse had bolted and the game lost.

Psychological profiling of players is more important than being able to kick or handball, knowledge is the game now. Ability to maintain pressure and keep control of the ball is what is important and this is what did not occur last night especially in the third quarter. The Lions brainstrust must bear this not the players as they did not appear to know what was happening. They tried but were badly led.

Flexibility wins games not iron bars and a lack of knowledge.

 

[Haso]

I'm on the side of the 'tired young bodies' explanation.

If the endeavour is there but the run isn't, the most logical explanation is extreme fatgue. Rocky and Zorks have been slipping in form for a few weeks now. These young players are great and talented, but are still young, and this has been a long season. Rocky and Blackie are carrying niggles, Huddo is buggered, and whole sections of our team are missing through injury (Ash, Golby, Maguire and Drummo, anyone?). The improvement is definitely there. We saw that in the middle of the season in the efort againstt Hawthorn, and the wins against WB and Melbourne.

The team isn't yet capable of playing out an entire season, because they are not fit enough yet. It isn't an effort thing, they are just not old enough yet to collectively carry the team along. It's hard to watch, because you can see that they are putting in, but can't follow through in the way that they want.

I think we will have two more wins this year, landing on 9 wins, which is more than twice as many as last year. Improvement.