Review Views and Reviews v Carlton

[patfullfankezz]

And if we find it frustrating to watch, imagine how frustrated they must be with themselves. It's a painful lesson when you learn that you have limitations.

 

[Dylan12]

In all honesty, I know you probably won't agree but you're being far too harsh on what is a seriously young group.

That excuse has been rolled out on here for the past 4-5 years and will no doubt be the same excuse next year, so forgive me for actually having some expectations. Sure we will lose games, but at least contest the game. Only winning 4 out of the past 24 quarters is testament that we are hardly competing and a slap in the face to those fans who show up week after week expecting the boys to show a little heart.

 

[Haso]

That excuse has been rolled out on here for the past 4-5 years and will no doubt be the same excuse next year, so forgive me for actually having some expectations. Sure we will lose games, but at least contest the game. Only winning 4 out of the past 24 quarters is testament that we are hardly competing and a slap in the face to those fans who show up week after week expecting the boys to show a little heart.

I would say that the intent and effort is there, but the run and energy isn't, as it has been a very long season and young bodies haven't yet had the opportunity to get really properly football fit with a number of preseasons.

 

[Dylan12]

If the endeavour is there but the run isn't, the most logical explanation is extreme fatgue.

If that is the case, and we are serious about winning, then it is a shame guys like Hawksley and Stiller are left languishing in the reserves. I would rather build some winning momentum in the last few weeks, irrespective of who is playing, so the lads have something to build upon at the expense of gifting games to young guys which probably won't aide in their development.

 

[Haso]

If that is the case, and we are serious about winning, then it is a shame guys like Hawksley and Stiller are left languishing in the reserves. I would rather build some winning momentum in the last few weeks, irrespective of who is playing, so the lads have something to build upon at the expense of gifting games to young guys which probably won't aide in their development.

There is something in that I guess. Seems to me that the coaching staff have a couple of options in terms of balance there: they could go with the older but less talented guys, or the younger and more talented but tired guys. I think they have actually trod the line there and kept some of both, but the tiredness is still coming through. The balance is precarious.

I would hate to be a coach.

 

[T Rick]

That excuse has been rolled out on here for the past 4-5 years and will no doubt be the same excuse next year, so forgive me for actually having some expectations. Sure we will lose games, but at least contest the game. Only winning 4 out of the past 24 quarters is testament that we are hardly competing and a slap in the face to those fans who show up week after week expecting the boys to show a little heart.

Please elaborate: Can you name players who "didn't show a little heart". Are you talking about Browny, Green, Zorko, Black, Merrett, Patful, Redden etc. I am bemused by such an unsubstantiated put down of a team that from my perspective gave its all. The reality is that losing doesn't necessarily equate with not trying. For example, did Browny not try his heart out because he only kicked two goals? Did you see his commitment to marking contests...absolutely scary stuff. The excuses rolled out on here for the past 4-5 years are irrelevant to last night's game or where we are at right now. Others can do the inexperience gap analysis but to critisize someone like Lester, who has literally played a handful of games and is very inexperienced is over the top. In my view he gave it everything he had last night, and earned a bloody tough free kick in and under and then got up and slotted a goal as composed as any 200 gamer. Of course we had players that did not play well, including Banfield and Polks. Few on here would contest that Banfield is badly out of form and Polks just doesn't get enough of it and goes missing.
Dylan 12, give us a break and name names or go onto the Vent thread and express your frustrations there, where it is acceptable to "vent".

 

[son of polks]

1st time poster long time reader

anyhow, only saw the game on Tv so its not always esay to pick up, BUT pretty sure that polks had that defensive foward role on B Gibbs, POlks only had one tackle and 12 touches and pretty sure no shots on goal, While Gibbs had 30 odd touches set up there play really well and had 2 cracks on goal.

If you are going to play that role as a defensive foward you need to either be able to impact the scoreboard or Total blanket the opposition player, so he has no impact. OR both.

A couple of weeks ago V the the WCE Hurn and waters had blinders because they could just control play so well From back there, I Think polks should have a spell in the ressies But unsure who should replace him to play that role

 

[Bert Man]

Watching Beams for he resembles Dane Swan quite a bit IMO

 

[Haso]

I do agree with the vent thread sentment guys. Let's keep it on track in here. If we can't do that, the vent thread is where we go. People have expressed their views well in here so far, let's keep that up.

 

[whatboutbob]

Brock McLean looks like he has just discovered that it's a guy and not a girl

Saw quite a few of those expressions here:

 

[Ceebee]

Last week I was really pessimistic about the future, but after last night I am not.
Just liked the endeavour and spirit we showed.
Yes, we lack skills, our goal kicking was off, but god we are a young side .
With Leuy,Stakes back ,the games we got in to our young boys this year ,next year we should be ok
Must be time for a bit of luck too..

 

[Triple R]

1st time poster long time reader

anyhow, only saw the game on Tv so its not always esay to pick up, BUT pretty sure that polks had that defensive foward role on B Gibbs, POlks only had one tackle and 12 touches and pretty sure no shots on goal, While Gibbs had 30 odd touches set up there play really well and had 2 cracks on goal.

If you are going to play that role as a defensive foward you need to either be able to impact the scoreboard or Total blanket the opposition player, so he has no impact. OR both.

A couple of weeks ago V the the WCE Hurn and waters had blinders because they could just control play so well From back there, I Think polks should have a spell in the ressies But unsure who should replace him to play that role

From the game - he was on the wing with Gibbs and peeled off every time to try to get uncontested ball. Really poor all round game from him.

 

[patfullfankezz]

You'll have people begging for red cards if you keep that up Bob...dear god.

I need to go find a picture of Joel now....my eyes!

 

[Bert Man]

Harwood was really good last night allowed Lester to play further up the ground.

 

[Baby_Jenks]

We need multiple lines to work hard at kick ins. Running patterns & work rate are critical.

Promote that man! Yes, yes and yes a thousand times over.

Watching Beams for he resembles Dane Swan quite a bit IMO

With the tats maybe but I'll go with Harwood for a more apt comparison. Drafted as a mid, playing back pocket but still found himself up there to have two shots at goal.

 

[Haso]

Just checking out the last quarter as we speak. The tap down to Reddo to kick straight to Brownie (who subsequently face-planted) was beautiful to watch. That kind of play tells me that players like Reddo are only going to improve as they get fitter, bigger, and more experienced.

I think that 2013 is going to be a better year. I don't see any evidence that we are going backwards, just getting tired.

 

[son of polks]

From the game - he was on the wing with Gibbs and peeled off every time to try to get uncontested ball. Really poor all round game from him.

yeh agree, he seems to have a terrible knack for giving the ball off to players in much worse postion then him, which is fustrating cause he can be a good user of the ball.

Surely big Huddo needs a rest, think he has played more games this year then anyone expected, he looked absolutley stuffed, tried his heart out though. Unsure how billys going in the ressies and would be a huge challenge going up against Jacobs next weeek, but give him a crack

As for the someones coments about dermot comentating It was terrible surely they have a footy record up in the box and they can see which player is wearing which number

 

[Haggis McHaggis]

The game has changed somewhat since the days of the verbal tirade being considered of any value.

This is the ra of knowledge of both the team and the opposition, computers analysis and monitoring are what win games nowadays.

This gives coaches the capability to change from Plan A to Plan B, C or D. Unfortunately last night the Lions had no alternative to Ratten's changes in the 3rd quarter and when they were countered it was too late. Horse had bolted and the game lost.

Psychological profiling of players is more important than being able to kick or handball, knowledge is the game now. Ability to maintain pressure and keep control of the ball is what is important and this is what did not occur last night especially in the third quarter. The Lions brainstrust must bear this not the players as they did not appear to know what was happening. They tried but were badly led.

Flexibility wins games not iron bars and a lack of knowledge.

Ironic, you're discounting a way of approaching matters while talking up flexibility. Don't make the mistake of thinking this generation is so much smarter than those past. History is full of people that thought they knew better & ended up making the same mistakes. Voss is very much a positive coach, as any player would tell you. Sometimes, people need a rocket. How can you say poorly lead when you don't even know what was said. We won the last quarter after looking insipid in the 3rd. Whatever he said got results, yet you want to knock the methodology? Come on.

 

[Caiphus]

I think Lester and Wrigley did well to work themselves into the game after a shaky start.

The result was a combination of tiredness taking it's toll on a team where the majority of the list haven't even been professional footballers for five years and inexperience where the execution and decision making in regards to our game plan fell apart at different stages.

The indicator was our handball chains looking a million bucks on occasions and then our possession game falling apart at other times when our defense was out of position and allowed Carlton to capitalize quickly.

Heads dropped last night after sustained periods of not getting adequate reward for effort. I saw or boys hurting and working themselves back into the game on multiple occasions and it made me proud.

The loss sucked to experience, it wasn't effort or talent that let us down, it was execution. I saw improvement again from the Richmond game in a lot of areas and I'm glad as hell the draw gives us two winnable games to finish the season on a higher note.

 

[Grimreepah]

Robinson was throwing them at Harwood (I think), he may go altough I was on the wing away from the melee.

Was pretty funny when Robinson was called out for not being able to run because he was exhausted from fighting. Harwood is one tough hombre. He's not the one you should be trying to rough up.

 

[Lions_Fan]

What was more annoying is sitting behind some very idiotic Carlton fans who thought Carlton were entitled to a free kick every time they were tackled

 

[Grimreepah]

Unlike most comments seem to suggest, I could see definite method to our kick ins early. We simply went away from varying it up. Lack of run, particularly unrewarded run, purely to take opponents out of the area, is most visible at the kick ins. When the only options are static, the perceived safety of the boundary line is hard to ignore. It's a footy wide phenomenon, taught from juniors, all the way on.

You can almost set your clock to this. Under pressure we just kick the ball out of defence as far as possible, not even worrying about trying to position it to advantage. And without much height to kick to the opposition start walking all over us. Just as players up the ground need to lower their eyes to assess all the options, so to do the players running out of defence. Hanley is particularly bad at this.

 

[fasterthanbrettlee]

One of the things that stood out to me most last night was that Kade Simpson was wearing two mouthguards. He must’ve thought wearing the helmet last week was ridiculous and wanted to tone it down a bit by wearing the mouthguards. For the life of me I can’t remember another player ever doing this before.

On a more serious note, the most annoying thing I have seen us repeatedly do is allow teams to play loose men on us. Our best moments in games this year have been when all of the opposition are made accountable by playing man on man.

In last night’s game, the North Melbourne and Hawthorn games there were periods of the game where the opposition have had free men and have been able to transition the ball easily and hold possession. Too many times last night were there 3 or 4 Carlton players been marked by 1 or 2 of our players. I don’t think we are smart enough yet in our development to be able to cover loose men like some of the top teams are more able to do.

 

[Grimreepah]

The indicator was our handball chains looking a million bucks on occasions and then our possession game falling apart at other times when our defense was out of position and allowed Carlton to capitalize quickly.

The handball chains are the most obvious part of Voss' coaching style. I think this is part of the reason to get Lester in the middle because he is a good handballer.

 

[whatboutbob]

Was pretty funny when Robinson was called out for not being able to run because he was exhausted from fighting. Harwood is one tough hombre. He's not the one you should be trying to rough up.

Wonder if there's any history between those two from back in Tassie? Didn't look to be any love lost.