Politics Violence against Nazis, acceptable?

May 1, 2016
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Carlton
I'll be honest I'm unsure of what point you're trying to convey here? I'm just echoing the sentiment that human beings (as a collective) are fundamentally flawed, and that there will always be a group that tries to exploit no matter what system you implement; history has shown this.

I'm not saying you shouldn't try to improve society or give neoliberalist capitalism its fair critique. Moreso that its something that needs to be acknowledged. Solely blaming the "barrel" isn't really a fair analysis nor will it lead to optimal outcomes.
Sure, but refusing to treat unjust systems as even possible is deeply ignorant.
 
Jun 6, 2016
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It's a reflection of the reasoning @Carringbush2010 (only tagging you because it's cowardice to talk about someone without them knowing, CB) uses; it's never the system, always the individual.
Hi Gethy,

You know as well as I do, I've never ever suggested or stated the system (liberal capitalism) is flawless, time and again I've claimed it's being misused. That is an immediate concession on my part that the system IS flawed and in fact enables misuse. So it's not never on my part.

As we are going completely off topic, I'll remind you of our pm conversation and I went by the rules to discuss this with you via pm, to avoid derailing the thread. I even stated as such in those conversations.

Yet you claimed, in those conversations, I'm using some sort of 'alt right playbook', via a pm conversation in an effort to avoid being exposed to the BF public of my using this whatever it is 'alt right play book', I dunno what even the * that is, and I don't want to.

Here's how it ended.

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Nothing since, except your tagging me.

I'm not out to get you, however if you're going to accuse me, by tagging me publicly on BF, of using some sort of dumb 'alt right playbook' bs and claim I'm using pm conversation to avoid exposure, then I'm going to call you out.

Willing to bet, as a poster If I were to do the same you'd infract me.

Now, back to the off topic debate about capitalism, you know and I know and everyone else knows that EVERY societal / economic model is susceptible to misuse.

You don't like capitalism, I get it, we all get it, however if you can point to an alternative model/s that are NOT susceptible to misuse then I'll happily concede my understanding of any model/s is naïve and flawed.

The reason I prefer our societal / economic model over others? Because it's liberal (or freedumb as some progressives like to call it), it allows freedom of enterprise, competition, we're humans / mammals after all - we compete!

It allows one to flourish by honest means, sure dishonest means are also used - like any other model, it enables. Societal models are not a sentient being 'out to get the rest by dishonest means'.

If anything I must admit the Nordic socialist model does work somewhat, even then, willing to bet that there are very much so capitalist elements in that model. And even then that is from afar with no real detailed knowledge. Even then that good example is an exception to the rule.

I'll finish by saying this, you and I have constantly been at odds, and I know deep down you're a good person and your heart is in the right place (even given you barrack for the enemy lol).

None the less, although I cannot let this particular incorrect assumption of me pass, I will willingly do my best to avoid engaging with you. We just don't get along mate.

So reply away, but I will probably ignore your replies.

Truce and let's go our separate ways Gethy, I wish you well.
 
May 1, 2016
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Carlton
Hi Gethy,

You know as well as I do, I've never ever suggested or stated the system (liberal capitalism) is flawless, time and again I've claimed it's being misused.
Hang on a bloody minute.

I want this on the record: are you saying that the system of liberal capitalism can be misused?

I want you to put it in these words: "Yes Gethelred, I agree with you that the system of liberal capitalism can be corrupted by individuals".

I want you to provide those words to demonstratively prove the negative. If it's only ever apples and not the barrel, I can never declare it if you make that claim.
That is an immediate concession on my part that the system IS flawed and in fact enables misuse. So it's not never on my part.
Dude, you - and only you, unless someone were to search sufficiently deeply to find the details of all our interactions - would witness all of my 'always the apples, never the barrel' comments.

Given the difficulty proving a negative, are you truly willing to provide your entire posting history - which you cannot edit without my knowing - to state that you have never put forth the perspective that the system is flawed and the system is at fault?
As we are going completely off topic, I'll remind you of our pm conversation and I went by the rules to discuss this with you via pm, to avoid derailing the thread. I even stated as such in those conversations.

Yet you claimed, in those conversations, I'm using some sort of 'alt right playbook', via a pm conversation in an effort to avoid being exposed to the BF public of my using this whatever it is 'alt right play book', I dunno what even the * that is, and I don't want to.

Here's how it ended.
Have you considered that I left that link, at all, for a reason?

I've left you a number of those links, because you've replicated the reasoning espoused in those links. If you've criticisms of those links, I'd actually be interested in reading them.
I'm not out to get you, however if you're going to accuse me, by tagging me publicly on BF, of using some sort of dumb 'alt right playbook' bs and claim I'm using pm conversation to avoid exposure, then I'm going to call you out.
Out of curiousity, given I've linked you to the 'Alt Right Playbook' before, have you bothered to listen to the specific links provided at all?
Willing to bet, as a poster If I were to do the same you'd infract me.
Let's be abundantly clear; since I became a moderator, have I ever given you a single infraction?
Now, back to the off topic debate about capitalism, you know and I know and everyone else knows that EVERY societal / economic model is susceptible to misuse.
If you ever need ask yourself why I keep referring to this particular video, it's because you are the best example I can provide of it.


You don't like capitalism, I get it, we all get it, however if you can point to an alternative model/s that are NOT susceptible to misuse then I'll happily concede my understanding of any model/s is naïve and flawed.

The reason I prefer our societal / economic model over others? Because it's liberal (or freedumb as some progressives like to call it), it allows freedom of enterprise, competition, we're humans / mammals after all - we compete!

It allows one to flourish by honest means, sure dishonest means are also used - like any other model, it enables. Societal models are not a sentient being 'out to get the rest by dishonest means'.
I don't necessarily disagree with any part of that. The problem begins where your 'dishonest means' begins; does the system before us both pick it up immediately or does it take some time before a person who is sufficiently intelligent seeks to take advantage to stumble over the trip wires?

If 'dishonest means' refers to those with access to power, how corrupt is our system before you're willing to subject those involved to RC levels of scrutiny?
If anything I must admit the Nordic socialist model does work somewhat, even then, willing to bet that there are very much so capitalist elements in that model.
It is that that leaves me with a semblance of hope for you, CB.
And even then that is from afar with no real detailed knowledge. Even then that good example is an exception to the rule.

I'll finish by saying this, you and I have constantly been at odds, and I know deep down you're a good person and your heart is in the right place (even given you barrack for the enemy lol).
Lol.

Ditto, you frustrating Collingwood supporter. I may never agree with you any (it's part of why I tagged you in this particular chat; you deserve to know what's said about you on here) but I don't begrudge you your perspective.
None the less, although I cannot let this particular incorrect assumption of me pass, I will willingly do my best to avoid engaging with you. We just don't get along mate.

So reply away, but I will probably ignore your replies.

Truce and let's go our separate ways Gethy, I wish you well.
:thumbsu:

Not wanting to attack you or your arguments excessively. I genuinely only tagged you to ensure that if I talked about you you knew it.
 
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