Politics Violence against Nazis, acceptable?

Socrates2

Premiership Player
Joined
Aug 11, 2015
Posts
4,417
Likes
5,189
AFL Club
Richmond
Hahaha, another mindless claim with not a single shred of evidence. Sorry, you're not persuading anyone.

Of course! There's nothing wrong with the violence they're committing because they're doing it to stop violence! There's nothing better to counter fascism than to enforce a fascist regime of your own huh? Hypocrisy? Who cares about that? We are the right-thinkers!

Honestly mate, you're an embarrassment. There's really no point in having any further discussion because you're exactly the kind of person summarized here:

You're still batting for the RWNJ crew after this massacre? People are afraid of getting shot in a massacre from RWNJ Extremism at the moment, yet you exaggerate a very minor group of teenagers and compare them to the worst terrorism in Australia/NZ history.Your way out of line.Stop posting videos of teenagers pushing each other and comparing that with the mass slaughter of men, women and children in NZ.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Soft Downhill Skier

2008-2010 wasn't me.
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Posts
34,524
Likes
27,367
AFL Club
GWS
I'm willing to bet you haven't read a single one of his books, just his wikipedia page.

Also let me give you the tip: fighting against the Franco regime is a bit different to attacking someone with a different opinion. To people of your ilk though, it's probably all the same. Refer to the Bezmenov video above.
You’re confusing protest groups for state communists.

They don’t attack anyone with a different opinion. They confront neo nazis and white nationalists.
 

Socrates2

Premiership Player
Joined
Aug 11, 2015
Posts
4,417
Likes
5,189
AFL Club
Richmond
Hahaha, another mindless claim with not a single shred of evidence. Sorry, you're not persuading anyone.

Of course! There's nothing wrong with the violence they're committing because they're doing it to stop violence! There's nothing better to counter fascism than to enforce a fascist regime of your own huh? Hypocrisy? Who cares about that? We are the right-thinkers!

Honestly mate, you're an embarrassment. There's really no point in having any further discussion because you're exactly the kind of person summarized here:

What relevance has that video to this thread or Australia? Mate it's the RWNJs that are ruining our society and that performed that massacre.By comparing that with your 4 antifa teebage scuffles shows you are nothing more than a brainwashed ideologue desperately seeking dirt to cover for a RWNJ massacre.Why not condemn the RWNJs instead of deflecting Your taking the wrong side champ and looking like a borderline RWNJ yourself.
 

sorted

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Aug 21, 2016
Posts
5,139
Likes
6,503
AFL Club
Geelong
You're still batting for the RWNJ crew after this massacre? People are afraid of getting shot in a massacre from RWNJ Extremism at the moment, yet you exaggerate a very minor group of teenagers and compare them to the worst terrorism in Australia/NZ history.Your way out of line.Stop posting videos of teenagers pushing each other and comparing that with the mass slaughter of men, women and children in NZ.
If you read his manifesto he could have committed this atrocity in any of the countries that he had been travelling in. It was almost like 'I'm in New Zealand, yeah that will do'. Thankfully it's a solitary incident. He doesn't appear to be part of a larger group that comprises a threat so it's untrue to say 'people are afraid of getting shot in a massacre from RWNJ extremism at the moment'.

The main terrorist threat both here and across the world is still from Islamist groups. In our region the Bali bombings killed 202 people including 88 Australians. You could make a long list of other Islamist terror attacks around the world in recent years.

But, in reality the threat is very low from Islamist terror in Australia. It's very much lower from right wing extremist terror. Neither are sufficient to warrant me to give them a second thought as I go about my business.

However, I have been fearful and have changed my actions based upon the the threat of violence by antifa-like protests. There have been speaking events that I have wished to attend that I have been deterred from by the threat of 200 protesters trying to block my path. I'm not in fear of my life but you could argue that the violent protests have more impact on me than the terrorist killings.
 

Socrates2

Premiership Player
Joined
Aug 11, 2015
Posts
4,417
Likes
5,189
AFL Club
Richmond
If you read his manifesto he could have committed this atrocity in any of the countries that he had been travelling in. It was almost like 'I'm in New Zealand, yeah that will do'. Thankfully it's a solitary incident. He doesn't appear to be part of a larger group that comprises a threat so it's untrue to say 'people are afraid of getting shot in a massacre from RWNJ extremism at the moment'.

The main terrorist threat both here and across the world is still from Islamist groups. In our region the Bali bombings killed 202 people including 88 Australians. You could make a long list of other Islamist terror attacks around the world in recent years.

But, in reality the threat is very low from Islamist terror in Australia. It's very much lower from right wing extremist terror. Neither are sufficient to warrant me to give them a second thought as I go about my business.

However, I have been fearful and have changed my actions based upon the the threat of violence by antifa-like protests. There have been speaking events that I have wished to attend that I have been deterred from by the threat of 200 protesters trying to block my path. I'm not in fear of my life but you could argue that the violent protests have more impact on me than the terrorist killings.
Well if there was 200 protesters you must have been seeing a ratbag speak.
People are afraid of rightwing extremism because of stuff like this.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...AxAB&usg=AOvVaw0RbCFAobna3LF9cGphHbAV&ampcf=1
 

sorted

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Aug 21, 2016
Posts
5,139
Likes
6,503
AFL Club
Geelong
Tell us the speaker so we can make up our own minds
No. Your view of a particular speaker should not determine whether other people are violently blocked from attending an event to hear them.

Unless you want the extreme right to start violently blocking green left communist events.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Hawk Dork

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Feb 9, 2005
Posts
26,639
Likes
21,701
Location
on the road to nowhere
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Hawks
No. Your view of a particular speaker should not determine whether other people are violently blocked from attending an event to hear them.

Unless you want the extreme right to start violently blocking green left communist events.
Sounds like your embarrassed to say who you think will enlighten your views of the world
 

Engimal v3

Premium Gold
Joined
Sep 21, 2017
Posts
2,169
Likes
4,077
AFL Club
North Melbourne
What I also find alarming, a guy in my own footy club posted a piece (not written by him) claiming that there is a conspiracy to downplay Muslim violence, and focus on right wing violence. He counted the number of Muslim extremists attacks worldwide, and compared the lack of coverage of these attacks, to the extensive coverage of Christchurch, and drew the conclusion that it showed Muslims were not allowed to be criticised.
It's easy to understand where he's coming from. Every Muslim terrorist attack is followed by "but it's not all Muslims!!" where every white terrorist attack is followed by "white supremacy is alive and well!!"

I don't think I'm telling tales of school if I say that a tactic of the left wing media to excuse any foul behaviour of non-white people. I'm sure you'd find the reverse on a site like Breitbart or Infowars.

The media is largely left-leaning and that those who lean left are often unwilling to hold minority groups accountable for their crimes. It's not a conspiracy, just a well-known bias. Your mate is overthinking it.
 

Hawk Dork

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Feb 9, 2005
Posts
26,639
Likes
21,701
Location
on the road to nowhere
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Hawks
It's easy to understand where he's coming from. Every Muslim terrorist attack is followed by "but it's not all Muslims!!" where every white terrorist attack is followed by "white supremacy is alive and well!!"

I don't think I'm telling tales of school if I say that a tactic of the left wing media to excuse any foul behaviour of non-white people. I'm sure you'd find the reverse on a site like Breitbart or Infowars.

The media is largely left-leaning and that those who lean left are often unwilling to hold minority groups accountable for their crimes. It's not a conspiracy, just a well-known bias. Your mate is overthinking it.
And yet security services think they need to step up surveillance of RWNJs...its a conspiracy lol
 

jatz14

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Dec 13, 2011
Posts
5,519
Likes
5,459
Location
WA
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
Perth Glory W-League
It's easy to understand where he's coming from. Every Muslim terrorist attack is followed by "but it's not all Muslims!!" where every white terrorist attack is followed by "white supremacy is alive and well!!"

I don't think I'm telling tales of school if I say that a tactic of the left wing media to excuse any foul behaviour of non-white people. I'm sure you'd find the reverse on a site like Breitbart or Infowars.

The media is largely left-leaning and that those who lean left are often unwilling to hold minority groups accountable for their crimes. It's not a conspiracy, just a well-known bias. Your mate is overthinking it.
That's the point. Yours is a widely held view, based on the 'feels', but it isn't true. There is no evidence that a left wing media is going softer on non white fringe groups, in comparison to white fringe groups.

The objective evidence gathered suggests the opposite is true.

Sent from my XT1068 using Tapatalk
 

Scotland

Hall of Famer
Joined
May 5, 2006
Posts
47,950
Likes
49,385
AFL Club
West Coast
But, in reality the threat is very low from Islamist terror in Australia. It's very much lower from right wing extremist terror. Neither are sufficient to warrant me to give them a second thought as I go about my business.
If you are a white atheist like me, then the threat is pretty low. No one RWNJ or otherwise is going to attack my place of worship because I don't have one. It's possible that an attack like Bataclan, Manchester Arena etc. could occur, but Australia is only about 2-3% Muslim (Hindus and Buddhists in comparable numbers but they don't really get much press) and most of them don't live in Perth anyway so really I'm worrying about the 1% of the 1% of maybe the 5-10% of the 2-3% so I should be OK on that front.

If you are a Muslim then the threat of right wing terror is much higher. Even though most of us whiteys aren't supremacists we still make up the majority of the population. Large scale right wing terrorism perpetrated against the general population is pretty unlikely, but that's because the majority of the population aren't the "enemy" of the far right groups.

Terrorism doesn't need to be winged either. Martin Bryant was a bit of a simpleton with mental health issues and killed 35 people. The victims that day weren't black or white or Muslim or Christian they were just people who were there at the time.
 

sorted

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Aug 21, 2016
Posts
5,139
Likes
6,503
AFL Club
Geelong
If you are a white atheist like me, then the threat is pretty low. No one RWNJ or otherwise is going to attack my place of worship because I don't have one. It's possible that an attack like Bataclan, Manchester Arena etc. could occur, but Australia is only about 2-3% Muslim (Hindus and Buddhists in comparable numbers but they don't really get much press) and most of them don't live in Perth anyway so really I'm worrying about the 1% of the 1% of maybe the 5-10% of the 2-3% so I should be OK on that front.

If you are a Muslim then the threat of right wing terror is much higher. Even though most of us whiteys aren't supremacists we still make up the majority of the population. Large scale right wing terrorism perpetrated against the general population is pretty unlikely, but that's because the majority of the population aren't the "enemy" of the far right groups.

Terrorism doesn't need to be winged either. Martin Bryant was a bit of a simpleton with mental health issues and killed 35 people. The victims that day weren't black or white or Muslim or Christian they were just people who were there at the time.
\

As I said, the Christchurch killer doesn't appear to be part of a larger group. I think we have to judge the threat from right wing extremists as very low seeing as we have not had any fatalities by them in Australia.

However there have been several Islamic related terrorist incidents in Australia that have resulted in fatalities. Bourke Street, Bourke Street 2.0, Lindt Siege, Brighton Siege, Queanbeyan stabbing attacks, Curtis Cheng murder, Endeavour Hills stabbing, Holsworthy Barrack terror plot. And several more thwarted by ASIO. The big concrete blocks round Southern Cross station in Melbourne are not to protect us from the far right. The threat is very low from Islamist terror in Australia but it's rightfully the main focus of the security services.

A couple of other things. Just because you are a white atheist doesn't make you safer than anyone else in regards to terror threat. Anders Breivik targeted the Norwegian government and a youth organization that is affiliated with the Norwegian Labour Party but he was as indiscriminate about who he killed as Martin Bryant.

And the Muslim terrorists responsible for the Bataclan Theatre massacre, Nice truck attack, Manchester Arena attacks, London Bridge Attack, Finsbury Park attack, Belgium bombings, 2017 Barcelona attack, 2015 Paris attack, 2016 Berlin truck attack, Boston Marathon bombing, 2017 New York truck attack, Madrid Train station bombing, 7/7 London Bombings, World Trade Center attacks etc etc did not care if they killed fellow Muslims as collateral damage.
 

Scotland

Hall of Famer
Joined
May 5, 2006
Posts
47,950
Likes
49,385
AFL Club
West Coast
As I said, the Christchurch killer doesn't appear to be part of a larger group. I think we have to judge the threat from right wing extremists as very low seeing as we have not had any fatalities by them in Australia.
He's part of a group. He's not the only white supremacist getting around. Just the only one who has shot up a mosque.

We have very few fatalities full stop as a result of violence in Australia. I think we had 2-300 homicides last year. 11 countries had over 10,000. A lot of the credit for this goes to the fact that guns play a very minor role in society. Whatever tensions are present at a given point in time I would prefer that people aren't armed with automatic weapons.

The threat posed by white extremists to other white people is very low I would agree. But that's only one aspect. Christchurch had one shooting, AFAIK no collateral damage (ie non Muslims being killed by the shooter) and 50 people died. That's not acceptable even if the white population of NZ or even the non-Muslim population of NZ was not put in danger. Ditto if the Muslims start turning on each other (Sunni vs Shia etc). It's still not OK.

However there have been several Islamic related terrorist incidents in Australia that have resulted in fatalities. Bourke Street, Bourke Street 2.0, Lindt Siege, Brighton Siege, Queanbeyan stabbing attacks, Curtis Cheng murder, Endeavour Hills stabbing, Holsworthy Barrack terror plot. And several more thwarted by ASIO. The big concrete blocks round Southern Cross station in Melbourne are not to protect us from the far right. The threat is very low from Islamist terror in Australia but it's rightfully the main focus of the security services.
It's also the main focus because security and defence prioritises the many over the few. A handful of gun nuts bunkered down in some Armageddon-prepped shack 100 miles out of Longreach are of a lesser concern to the authorities than the same group in Melbourne or Sydney where the potential for a Christchurch style attack exists.

A couple of other things. Just because you are a white atheist doesn't make you safer than anyone else in regards to terror threat. Anders Breivik targeted the Norwegian government and a youth organization that is affiliated with the Norwegian Labour Party but he was as indiscriminate about who he killed as Martin Bryant.
Well it does, depending on the type of attack. I am not at risk of being shot in a church or mosque or temple because I don't go into them. I also don't go to meetings of political parties or activist groups, I'm not brown, I don't wear Arab or Indian dress that is obviously different to Western attire. Etc. Basically I don't stand out, so my risk profile is minimised somewhat. If Brenton Tarrant saw me in the street he'd think nothing of it.

Am I 100% safe because I'm a white dude? Of course not. I have walked through Bourke St mall many times, sat in cafes, been to concerts... I could easily be or have been a victim of a terrorist attack, Islamist or otherwise. But I could also be hit by a car, or bitten by a snake walking the dog.

And the Muslim terrorists responsible for the Bataclan Theatre massacre, Nice truck attack, Manchester Arena attacks, London Bridge Attack, Finsbury Park attack, Belgium bombings, 2017 Barcelona attack, 2015 Paris attack, 2016 Berlin truck attack, Boston Marathon bombing, 2017 New York truck attack, Madrid Train station bombing, 7/7 London Bombings, World Trade Center attacks etc etc did not care if they killed fellow Muslims as collateral damage.
Those are horrible events and I am thankful that so far nothing of that nature and magnitude has occurred where I live.
 

Dramoth

Premium Platinum
Joined
Jul 19, 2005
Posts
25,699
Likes
13,242
Location
Bunbury, WA
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Manchester United
The kid gave them (unfounded) justification to act out their grievance by crushing him and giving them a leading story on the nightly news. The kid was stupid. In his defence, he is 17 years old. The MMA gang were bullies and a custodial sentence would be apt.
They'd take the custodial sentence as a badge of honour... afterall, their hero... Hitler, did time as well!

If you want to stop the far right, neo-nazis and white supremacists without violence... make them objects of ridicule. Dress them up in clown suits or pink tutu's and have them pick up rubbish on the sides of the road.

It's a bit hard for them to be all tough and rough after that... failing that, if they want to kill Muslims... give em a couple of weeks of training and send them off to fight against the Taliban for a couple of years.
 

blackcat

https://t.co/2GDiITokES
Joined
Dec 29, 2003
Posts
25,248
Likes
12,183
Location
melbourne
AFL Club
Richmond
They'd take the custodial sentence as a badge of honour... afterall, their hero... Hitler, did time as well!

If you want to stop the far right, neo-nazis and white supremacists without violence... make them objects of ridicule. Dress them up in clown suits or pink tutu's and have them pick up rubbish on the sides of the road.

It's a bit hard for them to be all tough and rough after that... failing that, if they want to kill Muslims... give em a couple of weeks of training and send them off to fight against the Taliban for a couple of years.
it is my position, p'raps incorrect, they are so marginal, they will not revolt and cause social unrest. It is we who have to tag them as some macabre spectre that needs to be fought.

*yeah, Christchurch demonstrates the opposite.
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom