Politics Violence against Nazis, acceptable?

Oct 2, 2007
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Your first point is not a very strong one. Of coarse people are going to be more concerned with policy that affects them personally, would you expect any different?

Yes, of course I would.

People that insist that there should be some form of government intervention that doesn't allow the lower class individuals to have the same freedoms as the upper-class is not a very libertarian position to take. I'm not sure you could even identify as a libertarian if you take this sort of position.

To a Liberal the Government only exists to intervene. Otherwise it shouldnt even exist.

We recognise that we need a State to protect individual liberty (in a stateless anarchy, it would be every man for himself, and the big fish always wins... at the expense of the weak and poor). The correct question to a liberal is not 'how big should government be' but 'what are the limits for the legitimate exersize of State power'

For a liberal, the State can only act (i.e make laws) when those laws are reasonably necessary to protect individuals from unreasonable harm from others (and those laws are proportionate to that harm). In fact; to a liberal, the State has an obligation to act in those circumstances.

A law prohibiting murder fits in this category, as does a law prohibiting unfair trade practices (cartels, monopolies, misleading cobduct) or road laws. Anti discrimination laws also fit in this category. Under the right circumstances, even a law requiring conscription can fall into this category.

Libertarians (traditionally) focus on the size of government. To a liberal, size is not a relevant concern. The Goverment can be as big or as small as it needs to be in order to fulfil its role in protecting me from unreasonable harm from others.

I'm also sure that libertarians are not 'pro big business.'

Not explicitly no. But the impact of allowing big buisiness total freedom from any regulations allows for cartels, monopolies, pollution, unscrupulous trade practices, tax avoidance, misleading conduct, sweat shops, removal of OH+S, harmfull products and so forth is huge. Who suffers from deregulation? The people in the sweat shops, the people working in unsafe conditions, the consumers, and the small guys.

A multi billion dollar multinational company is not the same thing as Joe your local baker.

Also; libertarianism is almost aways a position held by those with conservative or right wing views. That isnt by coincidence.

I'm sure there is a saying about buying a congressman is the best investment a Corporation can make... this is due to the fact that monopolisation and mass exploitation would be impossible without government intervention. Governments are virtually put in place by these big corporations, so what are they going to do, stop themselves from exploiting people?

No, governments are put in place by the people. The conservative parties of days past were represented by wealthy industrialists and land owners. It was the rise of the Labor movement (organised people power - and the one man one vote rule) that pushed the wealthy back from their position of influence. The workers in those 18th century London factories working 7 day weeks, 12 hour days, in abhorrent conditions, mobilised in opposition. Having money is a fantastic thing that lets you buy laws and favor. But when the system rewards numbers as well, organised labor and political movements can bring evern the wealthiest person to their knees.

Even today most two party western States are organised along the same lines; a Labor movement on one side (people power and pro the lower class and minorities), and a White collar party with corporate and buisiness intrests on the other.

Of course the wealthy figured this out. So they've managed to convince a lot of punters to buy into the s**t they sell. Global warming being a hoax, the brown people are out to get us, one day you'll also have a billion bucks and a place at the big boys table, more guns leads to less gun deaths and a host of other total bullshit stories to get a bloc of people voting for the wealthy peoples interests, and against their own.

Its hillarious to watch.

The libertarian view is that this accumulation of power should not exist and would not if the government was small and its only function was to uphold the laws and constitutions.

No mate; thats the opposite of the libertatian view. .

Seriously. Its like saying murders and theft would stop if government scrapped the Criminal code and the police force. Government would be a lot smaller if they did so, but quite the opposite would happen with respect to murders and theft.

As far as the state being there to protect the liberty and freedom of all its citizens, that is the exact libertarian view on what a government should be doing.

Again; you're wrong on this. Libertarians only believe in one form of liberty - negative liberty ('freedom from') - and not positive liberty ('freedom to'). Negative liberty is the State ensuring freedom by not acting and letting the dice fall where they may. Positive liberty is the recognition that in not acting, the State is sometimes taking freedoms away.

An example is that a libertarian would be opposed to the government making laws to harm disabled people (a law requiring sterilisation for example) but would be equally opposed to the State passing a law requiring wheelchair ramps to help disabled people access essential services. The latter is the State imposing unecessary regulations. It runs contrary to libertarianism.

A liberal on the other hand would be opposed to the first law, but would support the second law. A liberal recognises that in the State not acting (requiring the construction of wheelchair access) in the second example, they are not protecting the disabled person from harm from others. While you and I can access essential services, the disabled person cannot. We are both equally 'free' but the disabled person suffers from a totally different form of tyranny. Its a reasonable (and proportionate) law in response to this lack of freedom.

Look, I urge you to google postive vs negative liberty for an understanding of the topic in detail.
 
Sep 21, 2004
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GWS
Would you say antifa was more organized in Melbourne than other states?

Has the rise of the African youth becoming fearless and running amok in Melbourne coincided with the shepherding of antifa?

An African mate of mine suggested Apex wouldn't be trying this s**t on if people had guns.

Do you think recent immigrants should compromise in their settlement?

If necessary being pressured into behaving like normal citizens?

Or you're cool with Islamic law, violence and a new culture of fear, silence and violence being absorbed and guided into Australia's lifestyle?

Can you walk me through the connection between antifa and these African youths you don't like.
 

Sainteric

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Comparing with Europe around 1000AD is unfair, because Christian Europe was in the same state Islam is today: backwards.

Western society owes its greatness to the Greek and Roman civilisations, similarly the Islamic Golden Age owed as much of its greatness from what it inherited from the Persian and Babylonian civilisations that preceded it. The rise of both Abrahamic religions put a clamp on humanity.
Alot of islam science was greek as well
 

Thats Wright

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Can you walk me through the connection between antifa and these African youths you don't like.
I know you're not a child so you don't need to revert to one. Fairly simple cause and effect. There was bragging in this thread about removing a far right presence off the streets of Melbourne over the last 2 years. It seems to have been replaced by gangs, terror and massacres. But we can all sleep safe because the masked coward striking nerds are patrolling a keyboard near you. I'm not sure society or even vigilantism really works like that. The police are now aware of these keyboard warriors and the resultant 'anti profiling' or tip toeing around minorities (Bourke st) isn't aiding a community to avoid reactionary and legislative measures.

There's no direct link, but the halal flag wavers didn't seem as bad as what's playing out now. Perhaps community pressure intervenes or at least creates a resistance to gangs or fearless criminals and terrorists. Now it seems we have small amounts of fearless minorities terrorizing the community and changing laws under the watch of coward striking nerds holding the door open. We are dividing as a society and this cultural excess or 'blip' of these democracy killers and budding white collar criminals seems to be heading down a dangerous path. It's one thing to hate rednecks and attention seek, it's another to assist in turning your own country into a third world crime/terror hotspot in the process. A good balance is always the preference and I'm sure you'd agree.

The thread topic was shutdown by Mal, so there's not much point in discussing the issue.
 
Oct 2, 2007
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I know you're not a child so you don't need to revert to one. Fairly simple cause and effect. There was bragging in this thread about removing a far right presence off the streets of Melbourne over the last 2 years. It seems to have been replaced by gangs, terror and massacres.

How much you wanna bet the guy that did the massacre voted conservative?

The police are now aware of these keyboard warriors and the resultant 'anti profiling' or tip toeing around minorities (Bourke st)

Explain this comment. It was largely minorities (The victims included Jews and Asians, and a gay man being the perpetrators brother) that died or were injured in that massacre.

What minority ws being tip toed around? The cops called off the car chase to avoid casualties. They do that if you're black, white, male or female, Christian, athiest or Muslim.

You're a nasty bigoted bit of work if you see this as anything other than a dickhead off his **** on Ice and off with the faries doing a henious act. Only a scumbag of the highest order would point the finger at minorities here, or try and draw some kind of connection between Bourke street and immigration policies.

The thread topic was shutdown by Mal, so there's not much point in discussing the issue.

The thread topic has nothing to do with Islam.
 
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Thats Wright

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How much you wanna bet the guy that did the massacre voted conservative?



Explain this comment you ******* idiot. It was largely minorities (The victims included Jews and Asians, and a gay man being the perpetrators brother) that died or were injured in that massacre.

What minority ws being tip toed around? The cops called off the car chase to avoid casualties. They do that if you're black, white, male or female, Christian, athiest or Muslim.

You're a nasty bigoted bit of work if you see this as anything other than a dickead off his **** on Ice doing a henious act. Only a scumbag of the highest order would point the finger at minorities here, or try and draw some kind of connection between Bourke street and immigration policies.



The thread topic has nothing to do with Islam.

I don't really care who people vote for. I probably would if I was from the States.

Not sure how I pressed your button but I was referring to the difficult job police face when dealing with potential 'R' word screamers.

It's not necessarily a bad part of society but when it comes to 'by the books' law enforcement in Australia, avoiding a media backlash would be high on the agenda.

It's a difficult balance finding a Police 'force' that isn't impotent or excessive.
 
Oct 2, 2007
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Not sure how I pressed your button but I was referring to the difficult job police face when dealing with potential 'R' word screamers.

The campaigner was Greek. He was European. You think Melbourne cops hold back when arresting Greeks?

Is there some kind of embedded problem with the Greeks in Melbourne now that Cops hold back from arresting them for fear of being called racist?

They didnt arrest him becuase they feared he would speed off and kill people. Initially it was becuase he had a hostage in the car (an African woman, who he had beated and abducted - another ******* minority victim).

You're vile. Your bias and bigotry is tangible. You blame minorites for an incident when they were the ones getting killed, abducted, beaten, stabbed and ran over.
 

Thats Wright

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The campaigner was Greek. He was European. You think Melbourne cops hold back when arresting Greeks?

Is there some kind of problems with the Greeks in Melbourne now?

Not at all. The post was just a summary for a fellow North man.

I know I've layed the boots into Carlton on the main board a fair few times, but you did try and buy us and stole our coach, players and rorted the cap.. but that's another story. They are cuter under Bolton now.
 

Thats Wright

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You're vile. Your bias and bigotry is tangible. You blame minorites for an incident when they were the ones getting killed, abducted, beaten, stabbed and ran over.

It's more about honesty or my perception of it. I'm not particularly keen on pointing out minority issues but the cloud of bullshit annoys me. This thread and the gloating about coward punching and killing democracy probably didn't help.
 
Oct 2, 2007
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Carlton
Should someone start a "Violence against Islamic extremists, acceptable?" thread?

I would have thought the fact our SASR guys are deployed over there and our RAAF fighters are over there conducting airstrikes, the answer to this was self evident.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Okra

I assume you'll be rushing to defend the Grand Mufti of Australia after ISIS recent death threats against him?
 

igon value

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Egypt has always been about grain and conquest. Once conquest was gone, all bets were on grain.
So ... the peoples of the Nile who once created the greatest structures known to man and operated the world's largest library fell into decline because ...?

And this pattern was repeated all through the Mediterranean, Persia, Middle East and Anatolia because ...?
 
Sep 21, 2004
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I know you're not a child so you don't need to revert to one. Fairly simple cause and effect. There was bragging in this thread about removing a far right presence off the streets of Melbourne over the last 2 years. It seems to have been replaced by gangs, terror and massacres. But we can all sleep safe because the masked coward striking nerds are patrolling a keyboard near you. I'm not sure society or even vigilantism really works like that. The police are now aware of these keyboard warriors and the resultant 'anti profiling' or tip toeing around minorities (Bourke st) isn't aiding a community to avoid reactionary and legislative measures.

There's no direct link, but the halal flag wavers didn't seem as bad as what's playing out now. Perhaps community pressure intervenes or at least creates a resistance to gangs or fearless criminals and terrorists. Now it seems we have small amounts of fearless minorities terrorizing the community and changing laws under the watch of coward striking nerds holding the door open. We are dividing as a society and this cultural excess or 'blip' of these democracy killers and budding white collar criminals seems to be heading down a dangerous path. It's one thing to hate rednecks and attention seek, it's another to assist in turning your own country into a third world crime/terror hotspot in the process. A good balance is always the preference and I'm sure you'd agree.

The thread topic was shutdown by Mal, so there's not much point in discussing the issue.
I agree with the last sentence. The rest should be serialised as part of an eschatological novel.
 
Oct 2, 2007
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It's more about honesty or my perception of it.

Oh, I'm well aware of your 'perception' of it. Like most things, its bigoted, biased and wrong.

Here is a list of massacres in Australia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_Australia

Feel free to come back and tell me how many perpetrators were minorities.

I'm not particularly keen on pointing out minority issues but the cloud of bullshit annoys me.

The facts in this case are that a Greek/ Tongan Australian national who was (clearly) well and truly scattered off his nuts on methamphetamines. His victims included (among others) his (gay) Greek/ Tongan brother, his (African) girlfriend, an orthadox Jewish girl, and two Asian people.

I mean come on.

Chief Commissioner of Victoria Police Graham Ashton confirmed that 26-year-old Dimitrious "Jimmy" Gargasoulas[18][19] had previously been remanded into custody and was known to police having a history of illicit drug use, family violence, and mental health problems.[20]

In the days before the attack, Gargasoulas began to post messages on Facebook about "religion, God, Satan, heaven and hell", which writers for The Age described as "rambling and often nonsensical".[5] According to the Daily Express and Greece based TornosNews.gr, the perpetrator is a Greek-Tongan Australian, while he claimed in a Facebook comment reported and reproduced in the Daily Mail to be a "Greek Islamic Kurdish Angel of Cult" and a follower of "Yazdanism".[21][22][23]

Gargasoulas' father told Seven News "he's not the Jimmy I used to know" and he would "scratch his son off his books", while his mother told News.com.au she is ashamed to be his mum, and she wanted her son to "die in hell".[24]

Police reported that the perpetrator was "not on our books as having any connection with terrorism ... He has been coming to our attention more recently, over recent days, in relation to assaults, family violence related assaults".[19] The perpetrator had allegedly stabbed his younger brother for being gay.[25]

That you can percieve this incident is the fault of 'minorities' and infer that it was due to anything else other than the evils of methamphetamines simply tells me that you are bigotted to an extreme degree.

Based on many of your earlier comments, I'm not surprised. But seriously dude. Among many pretty low moments, this wasnt one of your finest.
 

Thats Wright

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Oh, I'm well aware of your 'perception' of it. Like most things, its bigoted, biased and wrong.

Here is a list of massacres in Australia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_Australia

Feel free to come back and tell me how many perpetrators were minorities.



The facts in this case are that a Greek/ Tongan Australian national who was (clearly) well and truly scattered off his nuts on methamphetamines. His victims included (among others) his (gay) Greek/ Tongan brother, his (African) girlfriend, an orthadox Jewish girl, and two Asian people.

I mean come on.



That you can percieve this incident is the fault of 'minorities' and infer that it was due to anything else other than the evils of methamphetamines simply tells me that you are bigotted to an extreme degree.

Based on many of your earlier comments, I'm not surprised. But seriously dude. Among many pretty low moments, this wasnt one of your finest.
I'm not sure we're on the same page mate. Think you're overreacting a bit about that point. It was about Melbourne's anarachists using Islam to disable the police.
 
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So ... the peoples of the Nile who once created the greatest structures known to man and operated the world's largest library fell into decline because ...?

And this pattern was repeated all through the Mediterranean, Persia, Middle East and Anatolia because ...?

Because all Empires rise & fall....Corruption at the top almost always the cause, as we are witnessing in the U.S today.
 

VineyIsLORD

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Cunning anarchists... working alongside theocratic fascists in order to allow african gangs from dandenong to run amok. And shutting the police down through islam.

Brilliant in its simplicity.
 
Sep 21, 2004
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Cunning anarchists... working alongside theocratic fascists in order to allow african gangs from dandenong to run amok. And shutting the police down through islam.

Brilliant in its simplicity.
Most lefties can't agree on whether to get Chinese, Italian or Turkish for a post-riot meal.

Yet apparently we've brought all these groups together to bring down white capitalism.
 
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